Don't you get it the US is NEVER EVER at fault. A sad case we've become under this President. Make up shit then make it stick somehow.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I never said it was Iran's fault. I simply stated that had Iran been upfront and completely transparent about it's program the Bush administration would have had no fuel for it's war machine. You really need some remedial reading and comprehension classes.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I never said it was Iran's fault. I simply stated that had Iran been upfront and completely transparent about it's program the Bush administration would have had no fuel for it's war machine. You really need some remedial reading and comprehension classes.
Whatever Iran does the Bush administration will always "create fuel" for their war machine.
It'll be like cat and mouse. With ever defunct theory there will be two new ones and it seems the Iranians have drawn the line and decided to become confrontational. The reason for this is because they believe they can.
Whatever Iran does the Bush administration will always "create fuel" for their war machine.
It'll be like cat and mouse. With ever defunct theory there will be two new ones and it seems the Iranians have drawn the line and decided to become confrontational. The reason for this is because they believe they can.
The Bush administration will definitely try to create fuel but it will not be as easy. Iran with a nuclear weapon was the best case scenerio for this administration to carry out military action. Iran was playing hard ass because they knew that the US had no leverage. Our military is dangeriously over extended. We lost alot, if not all, of the credibility we had in the world when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. So of course Iran was going to play hardball. This is probably the first time that they could deal with us in the position of power. This new intel though puts the flame out though. Iran can continue with it nuclear enrichment and the Bush administation no longer has a leg to stand on as far as military intervention in Iran is concerned. Hopefully within a year we will have a smarter more reasonable president at the helm and so will Iran.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
The Bush administration will definitely try to create fuel but it will not be as easy. Iran with a nuclear weapon was the best case scenerio for this administration to carry out military action. Iran was playing hard ass because they knew that the US had no leverage. Our military is dangeriously over extended. We lost alot, if not all, of the credibility we had in the world when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. So of course Iran was going to play hardball. This is probably the first time that they could deal with us in the position of power. This new intel though puts the flame out though. Iran can continue with it nuclear enrichment and the Bush administation no longer has a leg to stand on as far as military intervention in Iran is concerned. Hopefully within a year we will have a smarter more reasonable president at the helm and so will Iran.
Hopefully.. but judging by how things have been playing out over the decades plans are usually put "on hold" till they can be acted on. If nothing happens in 1 years time I would wait another 8 years to start hearing the same rhetoric once again.
Hopefully.. but judging by how things have been playing out over the decades plans are usually put "on hold" till they can be acted on. If nothing happens in 1 years time I would wait another 8 years to start hearing the same rhetoric once again.
As much as it saddens me you are probably right. Our governments seems to never learn from their past mistakes.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
What will be interesting is how this will affect the candidates, especially, Rudy.
It will be fun watching them perfect their back stroke.
Faux News is fucked.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
What will be interesting is how this will affect the candidates, especially, Rudy.
It will be fun watching them perfect their back stroke.
Faux News is fucked.
Those who supported the Bush administration view on the issue will probably continue to support Bush's view on the issue. I doubt you'll be seeing any back stroke, only free style.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Those who supported the Bush administration view on the issue will probably continue to support Bush's view on the issue. I doubt you'll be seeing any back stroke, only free style.
I like that! THEY'LL live and die with this President till the very end.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
This whole thing kills me... Bush was told months ago that there was new intelligence about Iran's nuclear program, so he stuck his fingers in his ears and started saying "la la la la la la la la la la" and him and Cheney go on TV talking about a nuclear Iran and World War III.
How does the president actually stand up and say he knew there was new intelligence, but wasn't told the details and not get laughed out of the room.
Joe Biden said it best today: "Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August that the tentative conclusion of 16 intelligence agencies in the U.S. government said they had abandoned their effort for a nuclear weapon in '03?"
"I refuse to believe that," he added. "If that's true, he has the most incompetent staff in modern American history, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
This whole thing kills me... Bush was told months ago that there was new intelligence about Iran's nuclear program, so he stuck his fingers in his ears and started saying "la la la la la la la la la la" and him and Cheney go on TV talking about a nuclear Iran and World War III.
How does the president actually stand up and say he knew there was new intelligence, but wasn't told the details and not get laughed out of the room.
Joe Biden said it best today: "Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August that the tentative conclusion of 16 intelligence agencies in the U.S. government said they had abandoned their effort for a nuclear weapon in '03?"
"I refuse to believe that," he added. "If that's true, he has the most incompetent staff in modern American history, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."
Check it- President Bush has intelligence coming in/given to him and he STILL won't take in some intelligence, one can see why he was a C student. However, whatever intel that comes in they'll spin it in the direction this administration has already pre-determined.
....And guess what many Americans STILL believe it's the right thing to go in and bomb Iran cause Bush said Iran still a threat. Go figure.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
How does the president actually stand up and say he knew there was new intelligence, but wasn't told the details and not get laughed out of the room.
Joe Biden said it best today: "Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August that the tentative conclusion of 16 intelligence agencies in the U.S. government said they had abandoned their effort for a nuclear weapon in '03?"
"I refuse to believe that," he added. "If that's true, he has the most incompetent staff in modern American history, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."
listen, i'm a fan of biden, but his talk of impeaching GWB is counterproductive. no, he's not talking about it here, but just a week ago he was and, to be honest....i don't want to give any extra credence to this administration then they already have. let them finish their year causing as little damage as possible and then we can move on.
that said...
just b/c of the NIE, we can't assume iran isn't developing WMD. don't get me wrong, we shouldn't invade given the intel we have, but at the same time we must know they are a hostel regime. so, we must trust our intel...but not turn a blind eye to the stance they may be hiding.
should we invade, or bomb, absolutely not....but...........don't take your eye off of them for a second. they still can't be trusted.
No, you are ignorant becuase you believe the US has no vested interest in Iraq, save what we can steal and expliot. That is total bullshit and you know it! Beucase you won't acknowledge any of the positive changes and reconstruction taking place in Iraq, it's clear you have some sort of axe to grind here. I'm hardly pretending that its all roses over there because its not. But there ARE many positives going on in Iraq right now, and the US is heavily involved in rebuilding the infastructure of that country.
.
It's REconstruction.....privately owned American corps are profiting from REbuilding a country that was destroyed using tax payer dollars.
I'm not disagreeing that the US government is paying US companies to help rebuild Iraq. Will you please respond to this point: WHO GIVES A FLYING FUCK? Would you rather Iraqi's go without power than have Haliburton profit from building them a power plant? Am I happy they got a no-bid contract? No, that's probably not cool. But in the long run I don't really care about that as much as the fact that Iraqi's are getting more power!!!! .
Iraqi's would not be going without power if their entire grid wasn't bombed to fucking dust man! Wasn't there a bit of a controversy about them bombing the power and sewage stations in the first place? Then they give Haliburton a no-bid to rebuild them? I'm sure if the Iraqi people had a choice, they'd rather not have been bombed in the first place...but since they were, they would rather have let a competitive bid bring in a company that didn't have ties to the very people that destroyed it...
you talk like the US handed the Iraqi people a $45 billion dollar cheque and told them to rebuild. They handed those dollars to American companies, and in turn THEMSELVES! It's not "trying"...and it should NOT be called "rebuilding" or "reconstructing"...it should be "reparations" and "restitution", and it should be going into the hands of Iraqi's to decide how to spend it.
You are so wrapped up in conspiracy that you can't take in the big picture. .
You've got it wrong, friend...the big picture is that the US should not have interfered in Iraq to begin with. Throwing money at US corporations does not make it better. Neither does getting their fingers into Iraq's education and monetary systems (indoctrination/westernization).
It's REconstruction.....privately owned American corps are profiting from REbuilding a country that was destroyed using tax payer dollars.
Iraqi's would not be going without power if their entire grid wasn't bombed to fucking dust man! Wasn't there a bit of a controversy about them bombing the power and sewage stations in the first place? Then they give Haliburton a no-bid to rebuild them? I'm sure if the Iraqi people had a choice, they'd rather not have been bombed in the first place...but since they were, they would rather have let a competitive bid bring in a company that didn't have ties to the very people that destroyed it...
you talk like the US handed the Iraqi people a $45 billion dollar cheque and told them to rebuild. They handed those dollars to American companies, and in turn THEMSELVES! It's not "trying"...and it should NOT be called "rebuilding" or "reconstructing"...it should be "reparations" and "restitution", and it should be going into the hands of Iraqi's to decide how to spend it.
You've got it wrong, friend...the big picture is that the US should not have interfered in Iraq to begin with. Throwing money at US corporations does not make it better. Neither does getting their fingers into Iraq's education and monetary systems (indoctrination/westernization).
exactly ... you got a war based on the most blatant of lies ... people are so prepared to overlook those lies ... they don't think their leaders would lead them into an unnecessary war ... then they want to believe the bs they spew to continue selling people on it ... when all along - it's always been about greed ...
Just becuase this appears to be the Iranian strategy does not mean the US should step down and allow them to obtain nuclear weapons. We have established a policy towards Iran's nuclear proliferation that we cannot walk away from, and Iran needs to understand that.
...which is what these reports show! They havent had any kind of program since 2003. They ARE pursuing their legitimate right (as defined in several treaties) to build nuclear power.
Iran's bluster is founded in the belief that the US is bluffing. But this isn't a game of poker where the US can just fold its hand. We really cannot allow Iran to obtain a bomb, and our leaders know it. Whether they be liberal democrats or conservative republicans. If inteligence suggests that Iran obtaining a bomb is iminent, you can bet your ass there will be sufficient support in the congress and the general public to let the bombs fall to take out that capability. We will act unilaterally if we have to, and so will Israel.
Posturing on both sides by presidents who are out to get a few votes by talking tough. And even if Iran were to go after the bomb (which they are currently not according to all US intelligence agencies), why would that be worse than Pakistan having them? If nuclear terrorism is the fear, then the cat is thoroughly out of the bag there already, aint it?
But seeing as Iran is currently not pursuing, and would in any case need near a decade to get even close, the threat is not exactly imminent.
I'm glad that the recent US report shows that Iran has abandonded their nuclear weapons program. I still don't trust them, but at least this delays any serious confrontation for awhile. I don't want to fight Iran, or bomb their country. Hopefully Amadinijad will get voted out soon and a more liberal government will emerge that can be negotiated with.
As am I.
Hopefully next time any reformist candidate is allowed to run. But the change would have to come from the real power factor, the priest council. Without a will there for reforms, the president can say what he wants, and it doesnt matter much. The president there is much weaker than the US president (which apart from perhaps Russia has the most concentrated power of all presidents).
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Q: what is the biggest deterent to developing a nuclear weapon?
A: peace
imagine if iran didn't feel threatened, imagine if the talking points were of the "we will help in your goal of nuclear power as long as we can ensure you are not making weapons" instead of "iran wants nukes - and we're gonna make sure they don't get em" ...
but why is the talk so aggressive from the US? ... doesn't it sound eerily similar to the talk about iraq?
Q: what is the biggest deterent to developing a nuclear weapon?
A: peace
imagine if iran didn't feel threatened, imagine if the talking points were of the "we will help in your goal of nuclear power as long as we can ensure you are not making weapons" instead of "iran wants nukes - and we're gonna make sure they don't get em" ...
but why is the talk so aggressive from the US? ... doesn't it sound eerily similar to the talk about iraq?
It's this administration. They have no diplomatic tact and pride themselves on this John Wayne we don't take no shit attitude. There are times when a country has to stand firm and then there are time when being reasonable will work far better. This administration lacks that ability couple this with arrogance and hubris and you have a cocktail for diseaster. Hopefully the next administration will be more tactful and will be able to employ true diplomacy, not this passive aggressive diplomacy the Bush administration lives and dies by, and the Iranian issue will be put to bed peacefully.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
It's this administration. They have no diplomatic tact and pride themselves on this John Wayne we don't take no shit attitude. There are times when a country has to stand firm and then there are time when being reasonable will work far better. This administration lacks that ability couple this with arrogance and hubris and you have a cocktail for diseaster. Hopefully the next administration will be more tactful and will be able to employ true diplomacy, not this passive aggressive diplomacy the Bush administration lives and dies by, and the Iranian issue will be put to bed peacefully.
well ... again ... we are not likely to agree on their motivations - while you chalk this up as tact ... i chalk it up to a purposeful deception and agenda ... as like their motivations are for iraq - they are the same for iran ...
well ... again ... we are not likely to agree on their motivations - while you chalk this up as tact ... i chalk it up to a purposeful deception and agenda ... as like their motivations are for iraq - they are the same for iran ...
No I definitely agree with you that they do have alterior motives. I guess I just misunderstood your question.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
Don't you get it the US is NEVER EVER at fault. A sad case we've become under this President. Make up shit then make it stick somehow.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I never said it was Iran's fault. I simply stated that had Iran been upfront and completely transparent about it's program the Bush administration would have had no fuel for it's war machine. You really need some remedial reading and comprehension classes.
Whatever Iran does the Bush administration will always "create fuel" for their war machine.
It'll be like cat and mouse. With ever defunct theory there will be two new ones and it seems the Iranians have drawn the line and decided to become confrontational. The reason for this is because they believe they can.
The Bush administration will definitely try to create fuel but it will not be as easy. Iran with a nuclear weapon was the best case scenerio for this administration to carry out military action. Iran was playing hard ass because they knew that the US had no leverage. Our military is dangeriously over extended. We lost alot, if not all, of the credibility we had in the world when we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. So of course Iran was going to play hardball. This is probably the first time that they could deal with us in the position of power. This new intel though puts the flame out though. Iran can continue with it nuclear enrichment and the Bush administation no longer has a leg to stand on as far as military intervention in Iran is concerned. Hopefully within a year we will have a smarter more reasonable president at the helm and so will Iran.
Hopefully.. but judging by how things have been playing out over the decades plans are usually put "on hold" till they can be acted on. If nothing happens in 1 years time I would wait another 8 years to start hearing the same rhetoric once again.
As much as it saddens me you are probably right. Our governments seems to never learn from their past mistakes.
It will be fun watching them perfect their back stroke.
Faux News is fucked.
Those who supported the Bush administration view on the issue will probably continue to support Bush's view on the issue. I doubt you'll be seeing any back stroke, only free style.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
How does the president actually stand up and say he knew there was new intelligence, but wasn't told the details and not get laughed out of the room.
Joe Biden said it best today: "Are you telling me a president that's briefed every single morning, who's fixated on Iran, is not told back in August that the tentative conclusion of 16 intelligence agencies in the U.S. government said they had abandoned their effort for a nuclear weapon in '03?"
"I refuse to believe that," he added. "If that's true, he has the most incompetent staff in modern American history, and he's one of the most incompetent presidents in modern American history."
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Check it- President Bush has intelligence coming in/given to him and he STILL won't take in some intelligence, one can see why he was a C student. However, whatever intel that comes in they'll spin it in the direction this administration has already pre-determined.
....And guess what many Americans STILL believe it's the right thing to go in and bomb Iran cause Bush said Iran still a threat. Go figure.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
listen, i'm a fan of biden, but his talk of impeaching GWB is counterproductive. no, he's not talking about it here, but just a week ago he was and, to be honest....i don't want to give any extra credence to this administration then they already have. let them finish their year causing as little damage as possible and then we can move on.
that said...
just b/c of the NIE, we can't assume iran isn't developing WMD. don't get me wrong, we shouldn't invade given the intel we have, but at the same time we must know they are a hostel regime. so, we must trust our intel...but not turn a blind eye to the stance they may be hiding.
should we invade, or bomb, absolutely not....but...........don't take your eye off of them for a second. they still can't be trusted.
you talk like the US handed the Iraqi people a $45 billion dollar cheque and told them to rebuild. They handed those dollars to American companies, and in turn THEMSELVES! It's not "trying"...and it should NOT be called "rebuilding" or "reconstructing"...it should be "reparations" and "restitution", and it should be going into the hands of Iraqi's to decide how to spend it.
You've got it wrong, friend...the big picture is that the US should not have interfered in Iraq to begin with. Throwing money at US corporations does not make it better. Neither does getting their fingers into Iraq's education and monetary systems (indoctrination/westernization).
exactly ... you got a war based on the most blatant of lies ... people are so prepared to overlook those lies ... they don't think their leaders would lead them into an unnecessary war ... then they want to believe the bs they spew to continue selling people on it ... when all along - it's always been about greed ...
Posturing on both sides by presidents who are out to get a few votes by talking tough. And even if Iran were to go after the bomb (which they are currently not according to all US intelligence agencies), why would that be worse than Pakistan having them? If nuclear terrorism is the fear, then the cat is thoroughly out of the bag there already, aint it?
But seeing as Iran is currently not pursuing, and would in any case need near a decade to get even close, the threat is not exactly imminent.
As am I.
Hopefully next time any reformist candidate is allowed to run. But the change would have to come from the real power factor, the priest council. Without a will there for reforms, the president can say what he wants, and it doesnt matter much. The president there is much weaker than the US president (which apart from perhaps Russia has the most concentrated power of all presidents).
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
A: peace
imagine if iran didn't feel threatened, imagine if the talking points were of the "we will help in your goal of nuclear power as long as we can ensure you are not making weapons" instead of "iran wants nukes - and we're gonna make sure they don't get em" ...
but why is the talk so aggressive from the US? ... doesn't it sound eerily similar to the talk about iraq?
It's this administration. They have no diplomatic tact and pride themselves on this John Wayne we don't take no shit attitude. There are times when a country has to stand firm and then there are time when being reasonable will work far better. This administration lacks that ability couple this with arrogance and hubris and you have a cocktail for diseaster. Hopefully the next administration will be more tactful and will be able to employ true diplomacy, not this passive aggressive diplomacy the Bush administration lives and dies by, and the Iranian issue will be put to bed peacefully.
well ... again ... we are not likely to agree on their motivations - while you chalk this up as tact ... i chalk it up to a purposeful deception and agenda ... as like their motivations are for iraq - they are the same for iran ...
No I definitely agree with you that they do have alterior motives. I guess I just misunderstood your question.