Because diesel is more expensive and filthy and electrics aren't really available. If I'm going to wait for new technology, I'll simply wait for a fuel cell.
I'm not really interested in using food as fuel.
True, but USLD just came on to the market as well so that's part of the cost and it's becoming cleaner.
For the record I think the Element is one of the best vehicles to be invented recently. Between the Fit and the Element they really have some good stuff going. The VW's do require a lot of work compared to hondas...
I really think with the relative success of so many electric cars and with CNG's around all over and the Honda system basically pretty close to production if it's not there already that those should be an option in the next few years.
Thanks. I searched for about 3 months...I wanted to go with a Used car, but one of my main criteria was Gas Mileage, second being price, around 15K. I wanted at least 30 in the city...the only Used cars that would come close would be a newer Civic as I'm leery of Hybrids...
I figured I buy new over used for the same price...
For such an inexpensive car, buying new is a great approach. Used cars so often carry so many hidden costs.
That said, I'd love to find a 1985 hatchback Honda CRX like the one my parents had when I was a kid. That car cost $8,000 new and got over 50 mpg on the highway. We put over 200,000 miles on that car and the only thing we ever had to replace on it was the muffler.
nissan versa hatchback. and i love her too. i test drove the yaris (didn't like) and the versa (loved) and was about to go check out the honda fit but i just really liked the versa.
I seems we had the same list...
We sat in a Yaris...nope, too cheap inside...
We sat in a Dodge Caliber...yikes, what a crappy looking car...
We test drove a Saturn Astra, really liked it, but only 24mpg in town and 3k more than the Fit...
We test drove the Versa...twice...but the Fit was just a better...Fit...he he..
For such an inexpensive car, buying new is a great approach. Used cars so often carry so many hidden costs.
That said, I'd love to find a 1985 hatchback Honda CRX like the one my parents had when I was a kid. That car cost $8,000 new and got over 50 mpg on the highway. We put over 200,000 miles on that car and the only thing we ever had to replace on it was the muffler.
I had a 1990 CRX....
sadly my ex ended up with that one...
she gave to a co-workers kid..GAVE it, I say...
I still see it running around town from time to time...
True, but USLD just came on to the market as well so that's part of the cost and it's becoming cleaner.
For the record I think the Element is one of the best vehicles to be invented recently. Between the Fit and the Element they really have some good stuff going. The VW's do require a lot of work compared to hondas...
I really think with the relative success of so many electric cars and with CNG's around all over and the Honda system basically pretty close to production if it's not there already that those should be an option in the next few years.
I still see it running around town from time to time...
Hehe...that's just salt in the wound. My parents gave their CRX to some charity drive and used it as a tax deduction. I often wonder how long that little car kept running.
We sat in a Dodge Caliber...yikes, what a crappy looking car...
We test drove a Saturn Astra, really liked it, but only 24mpg in town and 3k more than the Fit...
We test drove the Versa...twice...but the Fit was just a better...Fit...he he..
Congrats to you and your purchase...
ha, thank you. congrats to you as well. part of me wishes i would have test drove the fit anyway because i love hondas, but i'm happy with my pocket rocket. wanted to try nissan because i've heard good things. my list was pretty easy to form because i definitely wanted a hatchback that was decent with gas.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
I won't really change much. I drive an 2001 F150 and its a gas hog. I do use it for work everyday though. Its kinda hard to put plywood or sheetrock in the back of a Civic.
..before you find alternative forms of transportation?
Prices around here are between $3.89 and $4.09 a gallon right now. Even with my fuel efficient Honda Civic it's going to cost me $6 or $7 today just to drive to my parents who live a mere 25 miles away.
I think anything over $5 a gallon and I'm selling my car.
Yesterday I put $50 worth of fuel in the car, and I had to put another $20 in on my way home coz I was on empty...I probably drove about 120 kms.....
Im thinking of converting to gas, but then the gas price will just go up....so I might try and grow some wings or something :eek:
"....and was very surprised to see that he didnt actually have a recipe for anus-ankle soup." - Big Ed
i hear ya, and i wish i could sell my car but i've got two kids, one who's active in sports, and another who's active in diapers and has to be driven to the sitter's every day. it's not an option for me to chuck the car. even though we have decent public transportation, i think that would end up costing me as much or more than gas in the long run. but if i was single w/o kids, i would definitely explore other options.
But you still have a limit.. what if it was $20 a gallon? We all have a threshold.
i drive 60 miles totall evryday to/from work i will change my work hrs so i can car pool with a friend but really if it hit's $5 a gallon we as consumers need to get together and maybe hold protest of some sort anything to let this clueless government know we won't put up with this bullshit ,this issue has a totall ripple effect on the whole country ,food ,vacationing ,everything is affected ....
It's supply and demand though, we can protest all we want, oil companies will just sell to China and India to make up for our dissatisfaction. Those countries are growing hugely.. and protest won't to much good when the world's oil supply is completely depleted.
I have no choice. I will keep buying gas, no matter what the price and I will travel less and less. I live 10 miles out of town, in the woods, and I have 3 children. There will be no other form of transportation for my family.
Again, I'm asking what everyone's limit is. We all have a limit before we have to make sacrifices.. $10 a gallon, $20 a gallon, $30 a gallon??? At some point you will either become self sufficiant for your family in the wilderness or move.
We are going to run out of oil eventually. That is a fact, and prices will sky rocket up until that point.
Again, I'm asking what everyone's limit is. We all have a limit before we have to make sacrifices.. $10 a gallon, $20 a gallon, $30 a gallon??? At some point you will either become self sufficiant for your family in the wilderness or move.
We are going to run out of oil eventually. That is a fact, and prices will sky rocket up until that point.
OK, I think that when it gets to $15/gallon, I will have to give up driving. I will homeschool my children and raise chickens, cows, goats and pigs. I will also plant a gigantic vegetable garden. Then I'll say "fuck you" to my bills and stop paying them and be self-sufficient at home. Honestly, that is the kind of life I want to live anyway...
Thanks. I searched for about 3 months...I wanted to go with a Used car, but one of my main criteria was Gas Mileage, second being price, around 15K. I wanted at least 30 in the city...the only Used cars that would come close would be a newer Civic as I'm leery of Hybrids...
I figured I buy new over used for the same price...
I bought a Fit last December and I actually noticed the same thing. The 2008 Fit's on the lot actually ended up being cheaper than the 2007's because of the deals they had for Canadian pricing promotions for new cars.
..before you find alternative forms of transportation?
Prices around here are between $3.89 and $4.09 a gallon right now. Even with my fuel efficient Honda Civic it's going to cost me $6 or $7 today just to drive to my parents who live a mere 25 miles away.
I think anything over $6 or $7 a gallon and I'm selling my car and changing my lifestyle..
prices here just jumped up to what you are paying.
$6, $7 a gallon is not that far off...
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
how much am i willing to pay? well fortunately for me, i am 3 miles away from a train station. so i did all kinds of math figuring i spend about $280+ on gas/month for my 07 civic that gets about 30 miles/gallon for my 100 mile trip to work and back home. and that is when gas was at $3.50/gallon!
so i went from driving 600 miles/week and spending $280/month on gas alone (never mind oil changes, brakes, tires, depreciation) to buying a monthly train ticket for $150 and driving 50 miles/week.
plus i get a bit of exercise walking from station to work.
so thanks to gas prices increasing, i am saving money, losing weight and reducing my carbon footprint!
0
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Around here I found 3.59 @ Costco and filled up my truck for $56. I told my boss last year I'll be riding my bicycle to work then she decides to pay me $50 cash per week just to make sure I get to work.
I was hoping she let me drive her Bentley Flying Spur.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
The Petersons are a family of four from Issaquah. They like to hike, go to the movies, watch "American Idol." A regular suburban bunch.
Minus the SUV.
Minus any car, for that matter.
The Petersons don't drive. They haven't since 1987. No one in the family has a driver's license. At 17 and 20 years old, the Peterson kids have never been behind the wheel.
As the rest of the country frets over the highest gas prices in history, the Petersons carry on as usual, biking, walking and riding the bus wherever they need to go.
"We're not anti-car," said Kent Peterson, 47. "We've just figured out that we don't need one."
Mom, Christine, walks 25 minutes to her job as a personal shopper at Safeway.com. Sons Eric and Peter walk or take the bus to school and work. And dad, Kent, bikes 35 miles round trip to his job at a Seattle nonprofit. For identification, all carry either passports or state ID cards.
The Petersons' choice to go carless is often met with shock. Usually, they try to avoid bringing it up.
"We've gotten asked the weirdest things like, 'How did you take your sons to Little League?' or 'How do you buy ice cream?' Well, you know, we go to the store for ice cream. Just like anyone else," said Christine Peterson, 49.
Americans sit in their cars an average of 206 hours commuting every year, according to 2004 figures from the U.S. Department of Transportation. Vehicles in U.S. households outnumber drivers. We spend $7,967 annually on gas, maintenance, tires, insurance, registration fees and loan-finance charges, says the American Automobile Association. And that's just for one person to drive a medium-size sedan 15,000 miles when gas was $2.40 a gallon.
The Petersons are part of a much smaller statistic — the 8 percent of U.S. households without a car. This is not a big deal in, say, New York City. It is something else when you live in Issaquah, a small town near the foothills of the Cascades.
Besides that, cars hold a unique place in the American psyche; driving the open road is synonymous with freedom.
Kent and Christine Peterson used to believe this. But over time, they say, their dependence on cars began to rob them of money, time, and most of all, happiness.
In the 1980s, as a newly married couple living on the East Coast, Kent and Christine drove 60 miles each way, in separate cars, from their Bethlehem, Conn., home to software jobs in White Plains, N.Y.
After Christine had their first child, Peter, she went back to work right away. That's when her commuter frustration hit a new high.
"I had this new baby I never got to see," she said. "So we started to look at how much time we were spending in the car."
She and her husband ran the math on what it cost for day care, gas, car repairs and eating out, because both were too tired after work to cook. After factoring in take-home pay, they discovered they were clearing $70 a month. Christine quit to stay home with the baby — and they got rid of the first car.
Then, in 1987, the family moved to Duluth, Minn. Burned out by the software industry, the Petersons took over a used-book store but weren't raking in the kind of income they were used to in the tech sector. Something had to go. They sold their remaining car and cut a third of their expenses.
It was a new way of life. They biked four miles, even in the Minnesota winter, from their home to the book store. To transport the baby, Kent found a metal shopping cart, pulled off the wheels, fashioned it with bike tires, and secured it to Christine's bike. He strapped the baby's car seat in the metal cart and bundled him up "like a starfish."
"We rode like this in the snow," Christine said, laughing. "So when people say now, 'You're so lucky you don't have to pay for gas,' I tell them it's not something that happened overnight. You make your choices and you figure out what you have to do."
In 1993, Kent was offered a software job in Issaquah. So the Petersons devised a plan. They were a car-free family with two children now.
The couple sat down with a map and figured out the logistics of where they would live. They calculated hills, distance to grocery stores and schools. They looked at bus routes. The four of them moved across the country by train and settled into an apartment in downtown Issaquah. Peter and Eric grew up walking to school.
"I knew that other kids found it kind of weird that we didn't have a car," said Peter, 20, a junior at Eastern Washington University. "But now I'm a lot less reliant on one than everyone else I know. I don't have to deal with shelling out that money at the pump every day."
There are drawbacks, though. Especially when it comes to dating.
"In my last relationship, [my girlfriend] asked me, 'Are you ever gonna drive?' She was like, 'I don't think I can deal with it.' "
They broke up.
Kent and Christine always told their children that owning a car would be their choice — and financial responsibility. That means no help from mom and dad with insurance, monthly payments, gas or maintenance costs.
Kent believes this so much that in December he took a new job as commuting-program director for the Bicycle Alliance of Washington in Seattle. It takes him three hours to bike back and forth to work across the I-90 bridge.
Eric, 17, said it would be easier to drive to his job in Seattle and classes at Bellevue Community College than take the bus. But since he's been carless his whole life, "it doesn't seem like something I need," he said.
Still, being a teenager without wheels can be rough. "If you want to go somewhere, people kind of expect you to have a car at this point," he said.
The brothers say they respect their parents' decision. They're just not sure it will work for them long-term. Depending on the demands of their future jobs, Peter and Eric may be slogging through the morning crawl like the rest of us.
"I have the attitude that I will get a driver's license and learn how to drive," Peter said. "Someday."
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
My limit came when hubby and I moved back into the city. I had just been hired to work downtown, plus we were in a position where we had to sell our suburban house.
After living in the city for a year (within a mile from work) and walking most places to avoid dealing with traffic. We realized our car was basically sitting around most of the time, so we decided to do the math.
It cost us $200/month in parking fees plus insurance just to have the car sit there. It simply no longer made sense to own a car.
Heck, even if I want to take the dogs to the park, I can always take the bus. Thankfully our bus system allows pets.
There are times it would be nice to have a car, but that's when I'll go for a rental. However, with gas prices hovering around $4/gallon, I don't see myself bothering with rentals very often either. $70 to fill a tank! :eek:
No thanks.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
My family of 5 cannot live w/o a car. We live 1.5 miles down a dirt road and 8 miles from the closest bus stop. I'm not about to move to get rid of a car. I'll need this 35 acres when I become self-sufficient
that IS awesome - most especially for a suburban family.
i could never do it. i AM really, really happy though that both me and my husband work in manhattan now, and thus take public trasport - train - to/from daily. it ain't all that cheap though, a monthly train ticket is about $180 a month X2...but i do get incentives from work, a portion of my ticket is removed before taxes, which is quite nice.
right now, we still have 2 cars. we just bought my husband a brabd-new car last may, he had a driving commute back then, besides him being long overdue for a new vehicle. it IS good to have though b/c where we live, having a car is pretty necessary. my car is a 95, with under 70k miles. it costs next to nothing to hold onto. so until my car dies, we'll keep it...but when it does go, i'd like to be a 1 car household. now with our work commutes and same days off, i think it VERY doable.
sure, i guess we *could* live without a car entirely, if we were willing to live like the family above. i am not. my time is of much more importance to me, so i'd far rather have a car and drive to restaurants, shops, movies, etc. we do try and walk to local places when we can - have the time, decent weather - but otherwise i like the convenience of having a car in the burbs...especially for grocery shopping, target excursions ....when i visit the nursery, etc.
i think it's GREAT that some can be entirely car-free....but i don't think an 'all or nothing' approach is *it*....like most things, BALANCE is key. i really LOVE using my car so little. most weeks it could sit M-F, and maybe go out 1-2x on the weekends, depending on plans and/or errands needed.
if nothing else, hopefully this whole gas issue will get people to make at least small changes, because that's how the big changes start.
if nothing else, hopefully this whole gas issue will get people to make at least small changes, because that's how the big changes start.
Indeed.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
I have to have my car for my job. Yesterday I had to stop at a station that had regular for 4.26. I was so disgusted. I'll tell you though, I do not use my car on the weekends at all, unless I have to do a huge food shopping. Its the El or the bus, or my feet on the weekends. I've also started planning my work more carefully so I make sure I don't drive out of my way or further then I need to. I've found myself going to more places that are "one stop shopping" places so I don't have to run to a bunch of little stores.
My limit came when hubby and I moved back into the city. I had just been hired to work downtown, plus we were in a position where we had to sell our suburban house.
After living in the city for a year (within a mile from work) and walking most places to avoid dealing with traffic. We realized our car was basically sitting around most of the time, so we decided to do the math.
It cost us $200/month in parking fees plus insurance just to have the car sit there. It simply no longer made sense to own a car.
Heck, even if I want to take the dogs to the park, I can always take the bus. Thankfully our bus system allows pets.
There are times it would be nice to have a car, but that's when I'll go for a rental. However, with gas prices hovering around $4/gallon, I don't see myself bothering with rentals very often either. $70 to fill a tank! :eek:
No thanks.
wait, are you in seattle? you might be interested in zipcar, which has cars parked around each city they're in. they rent by the hour and insurance and gas is included.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
wait, are you in seattle? you might be interested in zipcar, which has cars parked around each city they're in. they rent by the hour and insurance and gas is included.
Thanks for the tip.
We did look into that, especially since we have discounts through our employer. However, they don't allow pets in their vehicles. :mad: And, the hourly fee seemed a little high for a grocery store excursion, since we can pay a flat $10 fee to have groceries delivered.
Walking has been good for us. We support a lot more local small businesses this way, 'cause that's who's around us. Plus, it's just about a mile for me to walk to the Pike Place Market.
It's had it's challenges and drawbacks, but overall we like not having a car.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
unfortunately there is really no public transport system here in Phoenix. The light-rail system is still 10 years away even though they've been at it for 3 years. The nearest bus stop is 2 miles away plus it takes so freakin' long to get where I need to go, doesn't go directly to my destination.
So I'm driving my company car, which I can drive for personal use on the company dime. Pretty sweet deal but it definitely encourages me to drive more than I usually would if it were on my dime, but I don't make any unnecessary trips and get all my errands done in one shot rather than making 3 trips to the store throughout the week.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
We did look into that, especially since we have discounts through our employer. However, they don't allow pets in their vehicles. :mad: And, the hourly fee seemed a little high for a grocery store excursion, since we can pay a flat $10 fee to have groceries delivered.
Walking has been good for us. We support a lot more local small businesses this way, 'cause that's who's around us. Plus, it's just about a mile for me to walk to the Pike Place Market.
It's had it's challenges and drawbacks, but overall we like not having a car.
oh totally. i think it's quite liberating not having a car. i went for 6 years without one, but i felt i needed one in this city and i am enjoying it but it comes with a cost. zipcar prices sadly went up after the merge with flexcar. you have a nice situation. grocery delivery is awesome, as is walking and supporting local businesses.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
Comments
True, but USLD just came on to the market as well so that's part of the cost and it's becoming cleaner.
For the record I think the Element is one of the best vehicles to be invented recently. Between the Fit and the Element they really have some good stuff going. The VW's do require a lot of work compared to hondas...
I really think with the relative success of so many electric cars and with CNG's around all over and the Honda system basically pretty close to production if it's not there already that those should be an option in the next few years.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/
For such an inexpensive car, buying new is a great approach. Used cars so often carry so many hidden costs.
That said, I'd love to find a 1985 hatchback Honda CRX like the one my parents had when I was a kid. That car cost $8,000 new and got over 50 mpg on the highway. We put over 200,000 miles on that car and the only thing we ever had to replace on it was the muffler.
I seems we had the same list...
We sat in a Yaris...nope, too cheap inside...
We sat in a Dodge Caliber...yikes, what a crappy looking car...
We test drove a Saturn Astra, really liked it, but only 24mpg in town and 3k more than the Fit...
We test drove the Versa...twice...but the Fit was just a better...Fit...he he..
Congrats to you and your purchase...
I had a 1990 CRX....
sadly my ex ended up with that one...
she gave to a co-workers kid..GAVE it, I say...
I still see it running around town from time to time...
The natural gas Civic definitely sounds cool as hell. The in-home fueling option is fucking awesome.
Hehe...that's just salt in the wound. My parents gave their CRX to some charity drive and used it as a tax deduction. I often wonder how long that little car kept running.
ha, thank you. congrats to you as well. part of me wishes i would have test drove the fit anyway because i love hondas, but i'm happy with my pocket rocket. wanted to try nissan because i've heard good things. my list was pretty easy to form because i definitely wanted a hatchback that was decent with gas.
cross the river to the eastside
www.seanbrady.net
Im thinking of converting to gas, but then the gas price will just go up....so I might try and grow some wings or something :eek:
We are going to run out of oil eventually. That is a fact, and prices will sky rocket up until that point.
OK, I think that when it gets to $15/gallon, I will have to give up driving. I will homeschool my children and raise chickens, cows, goats and pigs. I will also plant a gigantic vegetable garden. Then I'll say "fuck you" to my bills and stop paying them and be self-sufficient at home. Honestly, that is the kind of life I want to live anyway...
I bought a Fit last December and I actually noticed the same thing. The 2008 Fit's on the lot actually ended up being cheaper than the 2007's because of the deals they had for Canadian pricing promotions for new cars.
yeah, for commuting and intown stuff, that would be fantastic. I wonder what the real price is from the dealership for the entire package.
prices here just jumped up to what you are paying.
$6, $7 a gallon is not that far off...
Esther's here and she's sick?
hi Esther, now we are all going to be sick, thanks
so i went from driving 600 miles/week and spending $280/month on gas alone (never mind oil changes, brakes, tires, depreciation) to buying a monthly train ticket for $150 and driving 50 miles/week.
plus i get a bit of exercise walking from station to work.
so thanks to gas prices increasing, i am saving money, losing weight and reducing my carbon footprint!
I was hoping she let me drive her Bentley Flying Spur.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
A family of 4 — but no car
By Sonia Krishnan
Seattle Times Eastside bureau
The Petersons are a family of four from Issaquah. They like to hike, go to the movies, watch "American Idol." A regular suburban bunch.
Minus the SUV.
Minus any car, for that matter.
The Petersons don't drive. They haven't since 1987. No one in the family has a driver's license. At 17 and 20 years old, the Peterson kids have never been behind the wheel.
As the rest of the country frets over the highest gas prices in history, the Petersons carry on as usual, biking, walking and riding the bus wherever they need to go.
"We're not anti-car," said Kent Peterson, 47. "We've just figured out that we don't need one."
Mom, Christine, walks 25 minutes to her job as a personal shopper at Safeway.com. Sons Eric and Peter walk or take the bus to school and work. And dad, Kent, bikes 35 miles round trip to his job at a Seattle nonprofit. For identification, all carry either passports or state ID cards.
The Petersons' choice to go carless is often met with shock. Usually, they try to avoid bringing it up.
"We've gotten asked the weirdest things like, 'How did you take your sons to Little League?' or 'How do you buy ice cream?' Well, you know, we go to the store for ice cream. Just like anyone else," said Christine Peterson, 49.
Americans sit in their cars an average of 206 hours commuting every year, according to 2004 figures from the U.S. Department of Transportation. Vehicles in U.S. households outnumber drivers. We spend $7,967 annually on gas, maintenance, tires, insurance, registration fees and loan-finance charges, says the American Automobile Association. And that's just for one person to drive a medium-size sedan 15,000 miles when gas was $2.40 a gallon.
The Petersons are part of a much smaller statistic — the 8 percent of U.S. households without a car. This is not a big deal in, say, New York City. It is something else when you live in Issaquah, a small town near the foothills of the Cascades.
Besides that, cars hold a unique place in the American psyche; driving the open road is synonymous with freedom.
Kent and Christine Peterson used to believe this. But over time, they say, their dependence on cars began to rob them of money, time, and most of all, happiness.
In the 1980s, as a newly married couple living on the East Coast, Kent and Christine drove 60 miles each way, in separate cars, from their Bethlehem, Conn., home to software jobs in White Plains, N.Y.
After Christine had their first child, Peter, she went back to work right away. That's when her commuter frustration hit a new high.
"I had this new baby I never got to see," she said. "So we started to look at how much time we were spending in the car."
She and her husband ran the math on what it cost for day care, gas, car repairs and eating out, because both were too tired after work to cook. After factoring in take-home pay, they discovered they were clearing $70 a month. Christine quit to stay home with the baby — and they got rid of the first car.
Then, in 1987, the family moved to Duluth, Minn. Burned out by the software industry, the Petersons took over a used-book store but weren't raking in the kind of income they were used to in the tech sector. Something had to go. They sold their remaining car and cut a third of their expenses.
It was a new way of life. They biked four miles, even in the Minnesota winter, from their home to the book store. To transport the baby, Kent found a metal shopping cart, pulled off the wheels, fashioned it with bike tires, and secured it to Christine's bike. He strapped the baby's car seat in the metal cart and bundled him up "like a starfish."
"We rode like this in the snow," Christine said, laughing. "So when people say now, 'You're so lucky you don't have to pay for gas,' I tell them it's not something that happened overnight. You make your choices and you figure out what you have to do."
In 1993, Kent was offered a software job in Issaquah. So the Petersons devised a plan. They were a car-free family with two children now.
The couple sat down with a map and figured out the logistics of where they would live. They calculated hills, distance to grocery stores and schools. They looked at bus routes. The four of them moved across the country by train and settled into an apartment in downtown Issaquah. Peter and Eric grew up walking to school.
"I knew that other kids found it kind of weird that we didn't have a car," said Peter, 20, a junior at Eastern Washington University. "But now I'm a lot less reliant on one than everyone else I know. I don't have to deal with shelling out that money at the pump every day."
There are drawbacks, though. Especially when it comes to dating.
"In my last relationship, [my girlfriend] asked me, 'Are you ever gonna drive?' She was like, 'I don't think I can deal with it.' "
They broke up.
Kent and Christine always told their children that owning a car would be their choice — and financial responsibility. That means no help from mom and dad with insurance, monthly payments, gas or maintenance costs.
Kent believes this so much that in December he took a new job as commuting-program director for the Bicycle Alliance of Washington in Seattle. It takes him three hours to bike back and forth to work across the I-90 bridge.
Eric, 17, said it would be easier to drive to his job in Seattle and classes at Bellevue Community College than take the bus. But since he's been carless his whole life, "it doesn't seem like something I need," he said.
Still, being a teenager without wheels can be rough. "If you want to go somewhere, people kind of expect you to have a car at this point," he said.
The brothers say they respect their parents' decision. They're just not sure it will work for them long-term. Depending on the demands of their future jobs, Peter and Eric may be slogging through the morning crawl like the rest of us.
"I have the attitude that I will get a driver's license and learn how to drive," Peter said. "Someday."
Sonia Krishnan: 206-515-5546 or skrishnan@seattletimes.com
Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
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"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
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Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
After living in the city for a year (within a mile from work) and walking most places to avoid dealing with traffic. We realized our car was basically sitting around most of the time, so we decided to do the math.
It cost us $200/month in parking fees plus insurance just to have the car sit there. It simply no longer made sense to own a car.
Heck, even if I want to take the dogs to the park, I can always take the bus. Thankfully our bus system allows pets.
There are times it would be nice to have a car, but that's when I'll go for a rental. However, with gas prices hovering around $4/gallon, I don't see myself bothering with rentals very often either. $70 to fill a tank! :eek:
No thanks.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
i could never do it. i AM really, really happy though that both me and my husband work in manhattan now, and thus take public trasport - train - to/from daily. it ain't all that cheap though, a monthly train ticket is about $180 a month X2...but i do get incentives from work, a portion of my ticket is removed before taxes, which is quite nice.
right now, we still have 2 cars. we just bought my husband a brabd-new car last may, he had a driving commute back then, besides him being long overdue for a new vehicle. it IS good to have though b/c where we live, having a car is pretty necessary. my car is a 95, with under 70k miles. it costs next to nothing to hold onto. so until my car dies, we'll keep it...but when it does go, i'd like to be a 1 car household. now with our work commutes and same days off, i think it VERY doable.
sure, i guess we *could* live without a car entirely, if we were willing to live like the family above. i am not. my time is of much more importance to me, so i'd far rather have a car and drive to restaurants, shops, movies, etc. we do try and walk to local places when we can - have the time, decent weather - but otherwise i like the convenience of having a car in the burbs...especially for grocery shopping, target excursions
i think it's GREAT that some can be entirely car-free....but i don't think an 'all or nothing' approach is *it*....like most things, BALANCE is key. i really LOVE using my car so little. most weeks it could sit M-F, and maybe go out 1-2x on the weekends, depending on plans and/or errands needed.
if nothing else, hopefully this whole gas issue will get people to make at least small changes, because that's how the big changes start.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Indeed.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
wait, are you in seattle? you might be interested in zipcar, which has cars parked around each city they're in. they rent by the hour and insurance and gas is included.
cross the river to the eastside
Thanks for the tip.
We did look into that, especially since we have discounts through our employer. However, they don't allow pets in their vehicles. :mad: And, the hourly fee seemed a little high for a grocery store excursion, since we can pay a flat $10 fee to have groceries delivered.
Walking has been good for us. We support a lot more local small businesses this way, 'cause that's who's around us. Plus, it's just about a mile for me to walk to the Pike Place Market.
It's had it's challenges and drawbacks, but overall we like not having a car.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
So I'm driving my company car, which I can drive for personal use on the company dime. Pretty sweet deal but it definitely encourages me to drive more than I usually would if it were on my dime, but I don't make any unnecessary trips and get all my errands done in one shot rather than making 3 trips to the store throughout the week.
oh totally. i think it's quite liberating not having a car. i went for 6 years without one, but i felt i needed one in this city and i am enjoying it but it comes with a cost. zipcar prices sadly went up after the merge with flexcar. you have a nice situation. grocery delivery is awesome, as is walking and supporting local businesses.
cross the river to the eastside
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