Eco-terrorism

FiveB247x

I'm no expert and don't follow these groups religiously, but I've never heard of a specific example of them actually attacking or hurting any human. It's always been about property damage aimed at a specific area.. in this example, a lab which does animal testing.

Also, on a side note and in my opinion, I always feel because these type groups don't target people, it's more at the heart of the matter - which people take more offense too. It questions their opinions and judgements on the issue compared to being able to just say, hey, this grouped killed x number of people and that's wrong, etc.

godpt3 wrote:

from the article, sure sounds like they're targeting people to me. Unless you don't consider scientists to be people.

musicismylife78

godpt3 wrote:

3 SUVs probably constitutes close to $100,000 worth of destruction of property. I'd say the sentence is pretty fair.

so if you, yes you godpt3 tonight went down to a store and burnt it to the ground you personally would expect a sentence of 23 years? Are you on drugs, friend?

Certainly you would be in major trouble, but to sit in jail for 23 years? No way.

He set fire to 3 suv's. In the dark of night. The buisness of closed. No people were killed or harmed. The only damage was the suv's.

How is 23 years a justifiable punishment?

You read the paper dont you? Some killers and rapists dont even get 23 years.

KosmicJelli

chopitdown wrote:

when i think of the advancements that we've made medically b/c of animal research I feel great thanks...smallpox vaccine, organ transplantation, many surgical techniques, treatments for asthma, cancer, the list goes on here... http://www.njabr.org/programs/medical_milestones/.

I live near the ELF project here in WI.... fuckin cancer studies!!! WE have the highest rate of cancer in the USA....

musicismylife78

FiveB247x wrote:

I'm no expert and don't follow these groups religiously, but I've never heard of a specific example of them actually attacking or hurting any human. It's always been about property damage aimed at a specific area.. in this example, a lab which does animal testing.

Also, on a side note and in my opinion, I always feel because these type groups don't target people, it's more at the heart of the matter - which people take more offense too. It questions their opinions and judgements on the issue compared to being able to just say, hey, this grouped killed x number of people and that's wrong, etc.

there is a reason you havent heard about it. Thats their code of conduct. To be a part of the ELF you need to not harm human or non human life.

The ELF and ALF have never ever injured or killed a human or nonhuman. Ever.

I support these groups wholeheartedly.

Collin

radiohead33 wrote:

I am a resident of Eugene oregon, home of John Zerzan a figurehead of Green Anarchy. jeff Free Luers as well lives here or did. He was the kid who burned and bombed 3 suv's and got the "appropriate" sentence of 23 goddamn years!

The real eco terrorists arent those standing up for human and non humans alike and actually doing something other than pulling a stupid lever every 4 years. the real terrorists are those in power who stand silently by and do nothing as the world turns to hell.

It's like a murderer saying the real murderers are those in power who wage wars from behind their desks. Though, he makes a point, he's still guilty of murder.

Its Evolution Baby

radiohead33 wrote:

so if you, yes you godpt3 tonight went down to a store and burnt it to the ground you personally would expect a sentence of 23 years? Are you on drugs, friend?

Certainly you would be in major trouble, but to sit in jail for 23 years? No way.

He set fire to 3 suv's. In the dark of night. The buisness of closed. No people were killed or harmed. The only damage was the suv's.

How is 23 years a justifiable punishment?

You read the paper dont you? Some killers and rapists dont even get 23 years.

If he behaves himself he won't serve 23 years either. Without reading the facts of the case I'm guessing they tried him for Arson which would be a major Felony and could def. carry a sentence of 23 years.

Even if intentions are good you should never resort to violence or Arson or expect to pay the price.

Collin

radiohead33 wrote:

How is 23 years a justifiable punishment?

I agree it's a harsh punishment.


How is burning down 3 SUVs a justifiable action?

jeffbr

radiohead33 wrote:

I support these groups wholeheartedly.

I'm not surprised. You're probably one of those black hoodie wearing anarchists from Eugene that came up to Seattle during the WTO meetings just to break out windows downtown. Bunch of thugs creating anomosity for rather than awareness.

And how dare you lecture us about what activism is. Aren't you the one who posted a thread saying you were not interested in voting this year and that you get all of your news from Jon Stewart? Sheesh.

musicismylife78

jeffbr wrote:

I'm not surprised. You're probably one of those black hoodie wearing anarchists from Eugene that came up to Seattle during the WTO meetings just to break out windows downtown. Bunch of thugs creating anomosity for rather than awareness.

And how dare you lecture us about what activism is. Aren't you the one who posted a thread saying you were not interested in voting this year and that you get all of your news from Jon Stewart? Sheesh.

how dare you act like you know me from a few posts on a message board, no less!

Jon's great but frankly, I dont think of him as an activist, he isnt one.

I love how rude people are on this board. Instead of asking about my history, and if i have any experience in activism, you assume I dont.

I dont have to justify a goddamn thing to you, jeffbr you jerk.

Read previous posts of mine, I may not be an activist currently, but I was in the past. Politics has shaped my life for a while.

The Battle in Seattle, was one of the more significant events of our generation. It was when our generation finially fought back. And I can tell you for damn sure, most of those people who went to seattle for the protest could give a damn about electoral politics or Bush v Gore at that point.

Eugene is an epicenter or was an epicenter of radical activism. I remember clearly in 1999, a string of events here, anarchists throwing bricks into banks, anarchists jumping on cars, violent scuffles with police etc...

So to act like I know nothing about activism is naive and frankly insulting. Go back to your Britney Spears tapes pal!

Oh yeah, so the WTO protests didnt have an impact? It was front page news worldwide. It shut down the talks in Seattle. It was a rite of passage, from what i was told by people who attended.

But then again, you know the real way to protest dont you, jeffbr. Dont you? Its standing on a corner with a sign. Or its voting a politician into office. And those have worked out real well to end the war in iraq and afghanistan right? I mean the largest protests in human history were held in the lead up to the iraq war, and we got "antiwar dems" in office in 2006.

Wow what an impact that made!

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont have patience for the snail pace of electoral politics version of change and progress.

How could you not be pissed off? Obama wants to continue the war, and people act like he is a messiah! I dont get it.

All I know is that change, real change never occured by a politicians hand. To believe otherwise is to brand yourself a fool

musicismylife78

Its Evolution Baby wrote:

If he behaves himself he won't serve 23 years either. Without reading the facts of the case I'm guessing they tried him for Arson which would be a major Felony and could def. carry a sentence of 23 years.

Even if intentions are good you should never resort to violence or Arson or expect to pay the price.

so I guess those drugs must be good. This was a kid without a criminal history as well. He set fire to three suv's. Thats it. He didnt kill anyone. Didnt injure anyone. How is it okay for him to be sentenced to 23 years? Its outrageous, which is why i was for his release immediately and still am. he commited an illegal act, but lets face it, alot of kids commit arson. And I dont EVER remember reading about a first time arsonist being sentenced to a little over 2 decades.

What about 1 or 2 years in jail at the most?

Someone here posted an article about a nelected kid left to rot in her room. The mother spent little to no time in jail. Yet we send people like Jeff Luers, Mumia and Peltier to jail for half a lifetime or their entire lives.

As futher proof, google it. Google the simple words "arsonist sentenced". I see 7 years, 9 years, 13, but no 23.

Free Jeff Luers. Jail the real criminals. He is a hero and will remain one. Even the courts think so, as they ruled he should be released in 2009. They felt his sentence was unfair.

Just like in the case of the WM3, who will pay for this? Who will pay for those years stolen from Mr Luers. Or stolen from the Wm3? or mumia? or peltier?

Who will serve time for that?

jeffbr

radiohead33 wrote:

how dare you act like you know me from a few posts on a message board, no less!

You are right, I don't know you and can only judge based on posts. That is one of the risks of participating in the forum.

radiohead33 wrote:

The Battle in Seattle, was one of the more significant events of our generation. It was when our generation finially fought back. And I can tell you for damn sure, most of those people who went to seattle for the protest could give a damn about electoral politics or Bush v Gore at that point.

Eugene is an epicenter or was an epicenter of radical activism. I remember clearly in 1999, a string of events here, anarchists throwing bricks into banks, anarchists jumping on cars, violent scuffles with police etc...

So to act like I know nothing about activism is naive and frankly insulting. Go back to your Britney Spears tapes pal!

Oh yeah, so the WTO protests didnt have an impact? It was front page news worldwide. It shut down the talks in Seattle. It was a rite of passage, from what i was told by people who attended.

News worldwide for sure. There were some more responsible groups that got respect and sympathy for police abuse. Then there were the Eugene anarchists who were dismissed as punks and earned nothing but derision. So I guess everything depends upon perspective. It took a lot of guts to stand up to the cops the way some of the activists did. It took very few guts to cinch up the black hoodie and throw a brick through a Starbucks window. We obviously have different perspectives on honor and principle.

Anyway, it's back to that "Hit me baby, one more time" video for me.

chopitdown

radiohead33 wrote:

The Battle in Seattle, was one of the more significant events of our generation. It was when our generation finially fought back.

i agree...and this year I'm picking Gonzaga http://www.battleinseattle.com/

chopitdown

radiohead33 wrote:

As futher proof, google it. Google the simple words "arsonist sentenced". I see 7 years, 9 years, 13, but no 23.

Free Jeff Luers. Jail the real criminals. He is a hero and will remain one. Even the courts think so, as they ruled he should be released in 2009. They felt his sentence was unfair.

Just like in the case of the WM3, who will pay for this? Who will pay for those years stolen from Mr Luers. Or stolen from the Wm3? or mumia? or peltier?

Who will serve time for that?

well He's at 10 years for arson as you pointed out...so he's right in the norm now. Mr Luers has had no years stolen from him...he committed arson and he's serving a much more appropriate sentence. The thing your missing out on all your poster children for political prisoners is that they just might be guilty... but it's a cool / hip cause to label them not guilty and make t-shirts and rally behind them.

godpt3

radiohead33 wrote:

The Battle in Seattle, was one of the more significant events of our generation. It was when our generation finially fought back. And I can tell you for damn sure, most of those people who went to seattle for the protest could give a damn about electoral politics or Bush v Gore at that point.

So they threw a bunch of rocks and started a few fires. Big Fucking Deal. Drunken soccer fans do that all the time. The "battle" as you call it, was markedly similar to another event that happened in 1999. Yes, that's right: Woodstock '99. When revolution and change became nothing more than a fashion statement. You talk a good game, but that's all it is to you. I've never met a single one of you that had the backbone of conviction to take SERIOUS action.

One man CAN make a difference in the world: John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan...

godpt3

radiohead33 wrote:

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I dont have patience for the snail pace of electoral politics version of change and progress.

In that case, you've got to think bigger. Pick up a gun, and kill someone... maybe strap some explosives to yourself. Or, if you want to make a REALLY big statement, I suggest hijacking a plane and crashing it into something. That always works well.

You see, you're nothing more than a cheap Osama knock-off. Only you don't have the guts to take action.

flywallyfly

godpt3 wrote:

In that case, you've got to think bigger. Pick up a gun, and kill someone... maybe strap some explosives to yourself. Or, if you want to make a REALLY big statement, I suggest hijacking a plane and crashing it into something. That always works well.

You see, you're nothing more than a cheap Osama knock-off. Only you don't have the guts to take action.

You are seriously fucked in the head.

tybird

godpt3 wrote:

No. What you really want to do is impose your morality on someone else. Just like evangelical christians.

Damn....finally someone besides me has this view. Great Post!!!

Urban Hiker

godpt3 wrote:

No. What you really want to do is impose your morality on someone else. Just like evangelical christians.

Meet Lady. She was rescued from OHSU's "Research" department by a friend who used to work there. She was saved from the horrors of vivisection.

There is no MORALITY in this. It is ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY CRUEL to inflict pain on another animal. Just because other species don't have voices, doesn't mean we get to do whatever we like with them - no reason justifies it.


http://www.vivisectioninfo.org/index.html

Smellyman2

I wouldn't want to kill anybody who does these horrific things to animals....


I would sure like to beat the crap out of them though.

Its Evolution Baby

radiohead33 wrote:

so I guess those drugs must be good. This was a kid without a criminal history as well. He set fire to three suv's. Thats it. He didnt kill anyone. Didnt injure anyone. How is it okay for him to be sentenced to 23 years? Its outrageous, which is why i was for his release immediately and still am. he commited an illegal act, but lets face it, alot of kids commit arson. And I dont EVER remember reading about a first time arsonist being sentenced to a little over 2 decades.

What about 1 or 2 years in jail at the most?

Someone here posted an article about a nelected kid left to rot in her room. The mother spent little to no time in jail. Yet we send people like Jeff Luers, Mumia and Peltier to jail for half a lifetime or their entire lives.

As futher proof, google it. Google the simple words "arsonist sentenced". I see 7 years, 9 years, 13, but no 23.

Free Jeff Luers. Jail the real criminals. He is a hero and will remain one. Even the courts think so, as they ruled he should be released in 2009. They felt his sentence was unfair.

Just like in the case of the WM3, who will pay for this? Who will pay for those years stolen from Mr Luers. Or stolen from the Wm3? or mumia? or peltier?

Who will serve time for that?

And you say I'm on drugs...

So his sentence is going to be reduced and hes going to serve 11 years for Arson. I don't see the problem. And sure if he was rich and had a better lawyer he would have only served a couple of months, we all know the legal system is fucked in this country.

But it still doesn't change the fact he committed a crime and when you do your fate is left up to a Judge. He shouldn't have done it and he is not in any way a hero.

Destruction of property is the most annoying thing humans do if you ask me.