More than 140 bodies turn up on Baghdad streets

Abuskedti

I know I know we are staying for the good of Iraq

Cosmo

Abuskedti wrote:

I know I know we are staying for the good of Iraq

...
I got into a discussion about Iraq with a friend and he said that Iraq was no more violent than Los angeles, Chicago or Detroit.
Last time I checked... 2,600 L.A.P.D. officers weren't killed in the past 3 years from R.P.G. or I.E.D. attacks.

rebornFixer

Abuskedti wrote:

I know I know we are staying for the good of Iraq

Its legitimate to ask how many bodies would be there if no U.S. troops were present, mind you. Maybe the same number, maybe fewer ... Maybe more.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

...
I got into a discussion about Iraq with a friend and he said that Iraq was no more violent than Los angeles, Chicago or Detroit.
Last time I checked... 2,600 L.A.P.D. officers weren't killed in the past 3 years from R.P.G. or I.E.D. attacks.

And yeah, that's not a good comparison at all.

robbie

this war is done. over. we lost. there is no way to win, and when we finally leave it will look like we were chased away by the "terrorists" bacause that is how the bush administration has sold anything less than total victory to the world. because total victory is impossible, all that leaves is cutting and running from terrorists...... what a goddamn mess. they need to bring the troops back within the week. however long it takes to get all these guys and eqipment on a plane is how long iy should take to leave iraq for good.

rebornFixer

robbie wrote:

this war is done. over. we lost. there is no way to win, and when we finally leave it will look like we were chased away by the "terrorists" bacause that is how the bush administration has sold anything less than total victory to the world. because total victory is impossible, all that leaves is cutting and running from terrorists...... what a goddamn mess. they need to bring the troops back within the week. however long it takes to get all these guys and eqipment on a plane is how long iy should take to leave iraq for good.

I basically agree ... There's no real way to "win" in Iraq, assuming there ever even was.

Cosmo

reborncareerist wrote:

And yeah, that's not a good comparison at all.

...
If all those Iraqis were killed in auto accidents on the streets and freeways... you know, by drunk driving and all... then, yeah. But, getting dragged out of your house and turning up in an alley a week later with your head chopped off... along with 13 other headless bodies... I can't remember that happening here in the U.S. on a regular basis. Leastwise, not in Los Angeles. I can't speak for Chicago or Detroit because I don't live there. But, i can guarantee you... 14 headless bodies found in an alley in Los Angeles would at least make the evening news.

bryanfury

stay the course...

Cosmo

robbie wrote:

this war is done. over. we lost. there is no way to win, and when we finally leave it will look like we were chased away by the "terrorists" bacause that is how the bush administration has sold anything less than total victory to the world. because total victory is impossible, all that leaves is cutting and running from terrorists...... what a goddamn mess. they need to bring the troops back within the week. however long it takes to get all these guys and eqipment on a plane is how long iy should take to leave iraq for good.

...
We are caught... I should say, our decisions have left our Military people caught in a very tough position. We should not stay because there are too many other factors that make our presense there part of the problem... yet, we cannot leave because the threat of our military force is keeping this ever increasing boiler under pressure.
'Stay the Course' and 'Cut And Run' are extremes (both of which were created and canned by this administration). Those are the ends of the spectrum... there are many options that fall between the two.
We can re-deploy our forces to Afghanistan and bolster that situation... something we should have been doing all along. Or we can INCREASE the number of forces to secure the place. But, we should be given an honest assessment of the situation. Like, Bush holds up the number of trainned Iraqis in place... 300,000 of them. What the fuck are they doing? Put their sorry, white flag waving asses on the line. Make those fuckers do the shit.
Our military has already done this... toppled the Hussein Regime, captured Saddam Hussein and turned him over for trial, got their government elected, trainned those sorry fuckers... maybe it's time for the fucking Iraqis to do some of the shit.

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

...
.
Our military has already done this... toppled the Hussein Regime, captured Saddam Hussein and turned him over for trial, got their government elected, trainned those sorry fuckers... maybe it's time for the fucking Iraqis to do some of the shit.

For sure.

ThumbingMyWay32

We should firebomb Baghdad. They'll get the message.

Cosmo

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

We should firebomb Baghdad. They'll get the message.

...
Hey look... there's wrestling on T.V!!!

ThumbingMyWay32

Cosmo wrote:

...
Hey look... there's wrestling on T.V!!!

lol now you Cosmo, are a comedical heavyweight!

Scratchin a Letter

bryanfury wrote:

stay the course...

The only course the occupation is on is the course to civil war, mass-scale terrorism, increased sectarian violence and the complete desreuction of a country.

Sadly,

robbie wrote:

this war is done. over. we lost. there is no way to win, and when we finally leave it will look like we were chased away by the "terrorists" bacause that is how the bush administration has sold anything less than total victory to the world. because total victory is impossible, all that leaves is cutting and running from terrorists...... what a goddamn mess. they need to bring the troops back within the week. however long it takes to get all these guys and eqipment on a plane is how long iy should take to leave iraq for good.

this is true.

Supporters of the war confuse me. Do they think that as long as the occupying forces 'stay the course' everything will eventually be alright again? I'm not being biased. I just can't understand how people truly believe this. Iraq is hell. And it won't get any better until the people that created the situation admit this.

ThumbingMyWay32

Scratchin a Letter wrote:

The only course the occupation is on is the course to civil war, mass-scale terrorism, increased sectarian violence and the complete desreuction of a country.

Sadly,

this is true.

Supporters of the war confuse me. Do they think that as long as the occupying forces 'stay the course' everything will eventually be alright again? I'm not being biased. I just can't understand how people truly believe this. Iraq is hell. And it won't get any better until the people that created the situation admit this.

You don't understand because you believe everyone who supports the war thinks 'stay the course' is the correct line of action.

There are several areas that are hell right now. Fifteen of the Eighteen provinces routinely report hardly any violence at all on a day to day basis.

thatirwinfella

it's a catch22

it seems that the only right thing the US can do is to increase their troop numbers so that they can get on with the job of rebuilding iraq and repairing the damage done in the occupation and restoring the country's infrastructure

but this decision also seems to be unpopular at home because noone wants their kids to be over there, and a large part of the world doesn't want them to be over there.

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

...
We are caught... I should say, our decisions have left our Military people caught in a very tough position. We should not stay because there are too many other factors that make our presense there part of the problem... yet, we cannot leave because the threat of our military force is keeping this ever increasing boiler under pressure.
'Stay the Course' and 'Cut And Run' are extremes (both of which were created and canned by this administration). Those are the ends of the spectrum... there are many options that fall between the two.
We can re-deploy our forces to Afghanistan and bolster that situation... something we should have been doing all along. Or we can INCREASE the number of forces to secure the place. But, we should be given an honest assessment of the situation. Like, Bush holds up the number of trainned Iraqis in place... 300,000 of them. What the fuck are they doing? Put their sorry, white flag waving asses on the line. Make those fuckers do the shit.
Our military has already done this... toppled the Hussein Regime, captured Saddam Hussein and turned him over for trial, got their government elected, trainned those sorry fuckers... maybe it's time for the fucking Iraqis to do some of the shit.

I agree with this. not sure how we "lost" this war, or cant win like robbie said. its not about winning or losing. we toppled the Hussein Regime, captured Saddam Hussein and turned him over for trial, got their government elected. ok good. now its up to the iraqis to make a better life for themselves. they are the ones killing each other. not US troops.

know1

Who killed them?

Abuskedti

know1 wrote:

Who killed them?

We killed their police and their military - now we arrogantly patrol their streets with weapons causing caos and division - and continue killing all those opposed..

The resulting crime that we don't stop is on us.

Byrnzie

Abuskedti wrote:

I know I know we are staying for the good of Iraq

It doesn't matter that hundreds of people are being slaughtered everyday. They now have freedom and democracy.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

its up to the iraqis to make a better life for themselves. they are the ones killing each other. not US troops.

Haditha? Falluja? Oh, sorry! We're supposed to forget about this, right?

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/30/1332253&mode=thread&tid=25

'AMY GOODMAN: You mentioned, Dahr, Fallujah before. And I would say most people in the United States have perhaps heard of it as a city. But why do you think it needs to be investigated to the extent that we're beginning to see with Haditha right now?

DAHR JAMAIL: Well, it needs to be investigated because there is irrefutable evidence that war crimes have been committed there. I saw with my own eyes during the April 2004 siege, where I sat in a clinic and watched men and women and young kids brought in, all saying they had been shot by snipers, when Marines pushed into the city, couldn't take the city, so they set up snipers on rooftops and just started a turkey shoot, which was exactly how it was described by one of the soldiers I ran into when I was leaving that city.

Watching a ten-year-old boy die in front of my face, because he was shot by Marines, other war crimes reported heavily. And that was just from the April siege when 736 people were killed, and then the November siege where between 4,000 and 6,000 people were killed. Indiscriminate bombings, snipers, war crimes being committed on the ground by hand, by U.S. Marines, as well, during that siege. And all of these are, of course, gross breeches of the Geneva Conventions. They are war crimes. And there is photographic evidence. There is video evidence. Doctors there to this day will talk to you about what happened. And there is absolutely no reason why all of these shouldn’t be investigated, as well.'

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2006/davies0206.html

'Their most significant finding was that the vast majority (79 percent) of violent deaths were caused by “coalition” forces using “helicopter gunships, rockets or other forms of aerial weaponry,” and that almost half (48 percent) of these were children, with a median age of 8.'

Actually, I don't know why I bother pasting links to articles which refute your baseless statements Jlew because you obviously never read them.