Its not the war on Terror!
Abuskedti
Posts: 1,917
It is the occupation of Iraq..
and sending 20,000 more troops is not the increase that is needed..
They need at least 200,000 more to provide security
sending 20,000 only makes it worse - and last longer...
oh well, maybe we wont live long enough to worry about global warming..
Keep that fucker out of the news until after the holidays please...
and sending 20,000 more troops is not the increase that is needed..
They need at least 200,000 more to provide security
sending 20,000 only makes it worse - and last longer...
oh well, maybe we wont live long enough to worry about global warming..
Keep that fucker out of the news until after the holidays please...
Post edited by Unknown User on
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**Laughs heartily** Didn't Gen. Shinseki suggest 400,000-500,000 to get the job done ? Oh right, he was fired.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-04-19-us-embassy_x.htm
They for sure need more troops to fill that thing,
So, effectively, we have to replace Saddam Hussein with a new and improved, meaner Saddam Hussein.
...
The top priority is security... always has been. We tried to do it on the cheap and have paid dearly for it. Now, if we send in more troops (needed to provide security) it will be seen as an occupation (which, it already is). it's just that we are currently in a Wal-Mart occupation and need to upgrade to a Neiman-Marcus occupation. This ain't gonna sit well with the locals and we're gonna have to kill a hell of a lot more of them than our current rates.
But, really... if we want to 'WIN'... get the 'JOB' done... we are going to have to become the horror that we are trying to defeat.
Face it... we are fucked either way.
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The ONLY way I see out is enlisting the Arab Nations to ante up the soldiers... our NATO Allies to help us with the security concerns... our European allies to help with the rebuilding projects... the U.N. for Nation Building efforts... the enlistment of Iraqis to do the labor (not asshole truck drivers from Tennessee who will get kidnapped)... the trainning of Iraqi Security Forces at NATO Bases outside of Iraq and slowly transition them into deployments... and finally, the U.S. to pay for it ALL. This is our mess... we broke it, we bought it.
But, that is a tough sell because we have severed our alliances, alienated our friends, divided our country and proved that our credibility is worthless and we are lying sacks of shit.
...
We're fucked... and no one wants to claim responsibility or be held accountable for it.
Hail, Hail!!!
Plus, in the past, wars were clearly defined, fighting against Hitler for example.
Now we are fighting an entire IDEA. Fighting terrorism.
Even the people who support this goddamn war should admit what we all know, that there will always be terrorists. Its inevitable in an unequal capitalist world.
The new war on terror, is a war waged against "ANYONE" who is a terrorist. Hitler was just one man. Terrorists number in the millions. Not to mention the terrorists in the u.s.
This is a war without end, and we must pull troops out immediately.
The dems are to blame as well. The 06 midterms were a referendum on the war and Bush. The population doesnt want dems to run the war better. The population doesnt think this war is winnable. But cult of personality Obama and Gore and Kerry all think the war can be won.
The war was lost long ago, and cant be won.
The war of terrorism is a war crime, and ANYONE involved in it, be they Bush and his cabinet, or the dem senators who blindly followed and voted for the war, should be tried according to Nuremberg Trial law, and hung
They are all a bunch of homocidal mass murderers
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Anyone who simply says, "Stay til the job is done"... tells me they don't have a fucking clue about anything.
Hail, Hail!!!
If the majority of Iraqi want us out now as polls show, and if the majority of americans 70 percent plus want us out of Iraq and disagree with the war, imagine how high those percentages would rise if we escalated the war.
The people who started this war will have karma visit them in their afterlife, but its also clear that Bush and his minions were able to initiate this war, based on the willingness of the dems to follow anything Bush said, for fear of being labeled antiamerican and unpatriotic.
The american people will not stand for escalation of war Cosmo. Its silly to think they would. As I said 70 percent are against this goddamn war NOW.
You dont escalate to win the war, you escalate to lose it. and this war is hopeless.
Its self evident, if you all want to be blind followers of ideology and the crap your fed on tv by politicians, you are all sheep.
How the hell is sending more kids to die in Iraq going to solve anything. Anyone who suggests this idea (hint hint the entire tentative 2008 Dem presidential candidate field) you are not fit to be a leader.
The people who escalate the war will have the blood of thousands of young kids on their hands....do you really want to be a part of that group?
That's because we are only looking out for the welfare of America... we don't give a shit about Iraqis... AND NEVER HAVE. All we are concerned about is how things will work out for US, not them. Listen to the arguements against leaving... no one gives a fuck about the Iraqis... it's all about how the effects of leaving will affect us.
I know that sending in 200,000 U.S. troops is out of the question... but, that is the only way to 'WIN' it on our own. I don't want to send in our fighting men and women... I didn't want them over there in the first place. But, we decided to go with the Rumsfeld Doctrine and prepare for the best and hope for the best... thinking Jesus would figure out a way to make things work out. Ask me how to 'WIN'... and I'll tell you... but, you won't like the answer.
If you ask me what I think... I think we should say, 'Fuck it... here Iraq... here is 2.5 trillion taxpayer dollars... sorry for the mess we made' and fucking leave that place.
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We're fucked... WE ARE FUCKED. We let a pudgy little fuck from Texas scare us into running into a fucking swamp. We have no one to blame, but ourselves.
Hail, Hail!!!
What do you know, we agree!
Although, I'm not sure why you'd think it's appauling that a nation looks out for its best interests. Isn't that rational?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
Well, I guess it's because the Justification du Jour is that we are over there to 'Save those poor Iraqis'... not because or Weapons of Mass Destruction... or al Qaeda Terrorist Trainning Camps. We want to find a way out that is best for us, not for them... you agree?
Then, why the fuck did we go over there and blow all that shit up?
Turns out... what was best for America? NOT GOING INTO THAT FUCKING SHITHOLE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
No... I've been pretty much saying the same thing since 2003. Ask guys like Reborn and HailHail who are sick to death of reading the same shit from me... like a fucking mantra or something.
Don't take the focus off of Afghanistan... stay on Bin Laden's ass... get Afghanistan up and running at 90% or better... Hussein is inept and impotent and contained and unable to move his military without U.S. F-15s lighting them up... we can deal wth him later.
When we made the foolish decision to invade/occupy Iraq... I have always said, 'SECURITY'... meaning a lot of quality boots on the ground. When Rumsfeld and Bush boasted about huge numbers of 'Trainned Iraqi Forces'... I questioned the quality of those forces... I wouldn't want them posting guard duty over our sleeping troops, would you? I wondered where the Republican Guard and Fedayen Fighters disappeared to... I suspect they slipped into the recruiting lines.
I also felt that 2 decades of oppresion is going to lead to pay-back... especially if you are Shi'ite... who I don't trust because that is where Ayatollah Khomeni came from and that is where Iran's power is. You don't witness your family carted off in the night to disappear, only to show up in a shallow mass gravesite and NOT exact revenge when the gun is suddenly in your hands, not theirs... especially when your spiritual leader is Muqtada al Sadr. Iraqis don't have alligence to Iraq... they have alligence to their religious sect... how was our bombing the fuck out of them going to make them change overnight?
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I think the hypocricy in the past 4 years lies more in the repeating of the term, "Stay The Course" and uttering "Mission: Accomplished" and "Insurgency in its last throes" and "The Army you got" and "Rumsfeld isn't going anywhere" and saying, "Support Our Troops" while cutting Veterans Benefits and repeating, "Troop levels are adequate" then muttering "We are increasing troop levels".
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But, that's just me.
Hail, Hail!!!
Which explains why most of the September 11, 2001 hi-jackers and Usama bin Laden come from Saudi Arabia.
Hail, Hail!!!
Some people like to argue with exceptions...go figure.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Not arguing... simply pointing out a fact.
Hail, Hail!!!
You were trying to say that money doesn't wash away extremism. For the most part, it does. There are extremists coming out of Saudi Arabia, but I think it's common knowledge that lesser developed nations like Iran, Syria, and currently Iraq are a bigger part of the problem. Give people something to lose and they will learn to compromise. Wouldn't you agree that a majority of these jihadists are just pissed about living in a shithole?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Hail, Hail!!!
I used to think that. The usual terrorist suspect was young uneducated, poor, in a dead end and ripe for religion to warp them into murder.
But, Bin Laden, Atta, Al Zarqwi are educated, upper or middle classed and older. Their dissent with us grew into hatred... a hatred that drove them to flying airliners into office buildings.
And don't kid yourself... there are more of them than you think. Money is not worshipped and revered over there as much as it is over here. A new car and a color T.V. isn't going to turn them into Westernized consumers. To them, money is seen as a means to obtain a weapon to bring over here and set off in one of our malls.
Also... Saudi Arabia needs to be put on guard. The Oil Shieks are extremely rich, but the regular people are not. I can picture a fucking Revolution taking place over there, similar to the Islamic Revolution of 1979 that turned a Westernized, America friendly Iran into the Fundamentalist Islamic state it is today. Those Bush oil buddies over there better do something, like spread the wealth or they will be looking for exile in Crawford, TX. as the dissidents storm the lavish, Hussein-esque palaces looking to lop off their heads.
Hail, Hail!!!
Iraq was not producing "terrorists" until we invaded them.
that would be great...I know many here have been saying the same thing since this whole shit-a-cane began...
archive this: I told you so...
those against this action were right and the warmongers were wrong...
I agree and unfortunetly, as far as I believe, the only real solution to this problem is either to split the country up or let civil war take it's course. That hatred between the two groups is centuries old and will not disappear over night and as you said no amount of troops or bombs will erase hundreds of years of dislike and the 20+ years of oppression.