oh 14 more US dead

Abuskedti

sigh

Rushlimbo

I dont believe that number. If this were true they would be talking about it on the news instead of 24 hour coverage of the missing pregnant woman.

FredFlintstone

hey - they volunteered to go the Armed Forces....

Tragic. Nothing will change. More lives wasted.
Bring em home now.

jlew24asu

Abuskedti wrote:

sigh

i'll sigh with ya abu. it sucks. I have been bummed out all day when I saw that this morning.

my2hands

we shouldnt forget the Iraq's as well.

this thing has to end. fucking saddest thing i have ever seen

PaperPlates

Does suck. Won't argue that. But just for perspective, over 40,000 people die yearly in traffic accidents. Thats over 100 people per day.


Go ahead, piss all over me now. I can take it.

Cosmo

PaperPlates wrote:

Does suck. Won't argue that. But just for perspective, over 40,000 people die yearly in traffic accidents. Thats over 100 people per day.

Go ahead, piss all over me now. I can take it.

...
Yeah... but, how many of those cars were hit by an RPG?

Abookamongstthemany

PaperPlates wrote:

Does suck. Won't argue that. But just for perspective, over 40,000 people die yearly in traffic accidents. Thats over 100 people per day.


Go ahead, piss all over me now. I can take it.

Difference being the word 'accident'. It's no accident our troops are being sent into this huge fucking mess.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I'm actually surprised the numbers are still so low... You would think it would be at least (at least) 20-50 a day by now given the numbers of people involved.

I wonder what the daily "severely wounded" stats like i.e. troops lives permanently ruined because of no arms or legs, no vision, paralyzed, etc...?

Abuskedti

PaperPlates wrote:

Does suck. Won't argue that. But just for perspective, over 40,000 people die yearly in traffic accidents. Thats over 100 people per day.


Go ahead, piss all over me now. I can take it.

I suppose car accident deaths are down in Iraq. But they got those there too.

PaperPlates

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yeah... but, how many of those cars were hit by an RPG?

Or an IED for that matter?

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm actually surprised the numbers are still so low... You would think it would be at least (at least) 20-50 a day by now given the numbers of people involved.

I wonder what the daily "severely wounded" stats like i.e. troops lives permanently ruined because of no arms or legs, no vision, paralyzed, etc...?

You're right, they are surprisingly low. I dont know, but I'd be willing to bet they are the lowest casualty rates of any war of comparable length. Im not in any way trying to minimize the casualties, but simply to put them in perspective with past wars, wars waged by other less capable or less concientious militaries, and other very common daily death tolls.

Cosmo

PaperPlates wrote:

You're right, they are surprisingly low. I dont know, but I'd be willing to bet they are the lowest casualty rates of any war of comparable length. Im not in any way trying to minimize the casualties, but simply to put them in perspective with past wars, wars waged by other less capable or less concientious militaries, and other very common daily death tolls.

...
A factor may be advances in Body Armour technologies, Quick Response, Med Evac and proximity of forward Combat Surgical Hospitals in the battle zone. Also, the fact that C-17 can be configured as airborne hospitals to fly the most serverly injured soldiers to Germany.
Soldiers of the past did not have these advancements. I'm guessing that had we been able to quickly extract soldiers in Viet Nam in 1970... many of the dead would not have bled to death in transit to an L.Z. or on a UH-1 enroute to a filthy makeshift hospital in Saigon. Maybe we are seeing more survivors today... the same way we are seeing more drivers at home surviving auto accidents because of Air Bags and seat belts.

Byrnzie

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I'm actually surprised the numbers are still so low... You would think it would be at least (at least) 20-50 a day by now given the numbers of people involved.

I wonder what the daily "severely wounded" stats like i.e. troops lives permanently ruined because of no arms or legs, no vision, paralyzed, etc...?

True. We often forget all of those who now spend the rest of their lives in wheelchairs. Like the fella from the film 'No more war'.


http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

American Wounded

Official- 25950
Estimated - 23000 - 100000

Iraqi casaulties
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654 965 (392 979–942 636) excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war, which corresponds to 2·5% of the population in the study area. Of post-invasion deaths, 601 027 (426 369–793 663) were due to violence, the most common cause being gunfire.

For Jlew: http://medialens.org/alerts/06/061031_lancet_co_author.php

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

True. We often forget all of those who now spend the rest of their lives in wheelchairs. Like the fella from the film 'No more war'.


http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

American Wounded

Official- 25950
Estimated - 23000 - 100000

Iraqi casaulties
http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654 965 (392 979–942 636) excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war, which corresponds to 2·5% of the population in the study area. Of post-invasion deaths, 601 027 (426 369–793 663) were due to violence, the most common cause being gunfire.

For Jlew: http://medialens.org/alerts/06/061031_lancet_co_author.php

still basing a survey of 1849 households as PROOF that 650,000+ people died due to american bombs and gunfire. sorry, not me.

I wouldnt argue that there have been probably 100,000+ (hell maybe even 600,000) deaths due to iraqi on iraqi violence. am I supposed to feel bad that they kill each other? america should take responsibility for their actions on themselves? sorry, I wont.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

still basing a survey of 1849 households as PROOF that 650,000+ people died due to american bombs and gunfire. sorry, not me.

I wouldnt argue that there have been probably 100,000+ (hell maybe even 600,000) deaths due to iraqi on iraqi violence. am I supposed to feel bad that they kill each other? america should take responsibility for their actions on themselves? sorry, I wont.

You obviously didn't read the survey's findings:

http://www.zmag.org/lancet.pdf
'The major causes of death before the invasion were myocardial infarction, cerebrovascular accidents, and other chronic disorders whereas after the invasion violence was the primary cause of death. Violent deaths were widespread, reported in 15 of 33 clusters, and were mainly attributed to coalition forces.
Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children. The risk of death from violence in the period after the invasion was 58 times higher (95% CI 8·1–419) than in the period before the war.'

Abuskedti

PaperPlates wrote:

Or an IED for that matter?




You're right, they are surprisingly low. I dont know, but I'd be willing to bet they are the lowest casualty rates of any war of comparable length. Im not in any way trying to minimize the casualties, but simply to put them in perspective with past wars, wars waged by other less capable or less concientious militaries, and other very common daily death tolls.

unless you realistically look at the other side's losses as losses.

the suffering the Iraqi people have endured can't be considered low from any perspective.

PaperPlates

Abuskedti wrote:

unless you realistically look at the other side's losses as losses.

the suffering the Iraqi people have endured can't be considered low from any perspective.

You're quite right. The Iraqi people have been suffering for years. They got out of the fat, and into the frying pan. HOPEFULLY through time and better efforts on our part as well as THEIRS they can see true peace and live as people were intended to.

jlew24asu

PaperPlates wrote:

You're quite right. The Iraqi people have been suffering for years. They got out of the fat, and into the frying pan. HOPEFULLY through time and better efforts on our part as well as THEIRS they can see true peace and live as people were intended to.

I noted the all caps. and completely agree.

Byrnzie

jlew24asu wrote:

still basing a survey of 1849 households as PROOF that 650,000+ people died due to american bombs and gunfire. sorry, not me.

The surveys results are actually a conservative estimate. The figure is actually likely to be much higher. But then, hey, you know better, right?

catefrances

what does it matter how many are dead. what matters is no more people die. soldiers or civilians. too many have died already.

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

what does it matter how many are dead. what matters is no more people die. soldiers or civilians. too many have died already.

Dya wanna fight about it?

catefrances

Byrnzie wrote:

Dya wanna fight about it?

you think you can take me steve?

El_Kabong

jlew24asu wrote:

still basing a survey of 1849 households as PROOF that 650,000+ people died due to american bombs and gunfire. sorry, not me.

I wouldnt argue that there have been probably 100,000+ (hell maybe even 600,000) deaths due to iraqi on iraqi violence. am I supposed to feel bad that they kill each other? america should take responsibility for their actions on themselves? sorry, I wont.

you don't think anyone gets killed when we just open fire in cities?

of course some are infighting, but you don't think we kill anyone? *coughrape and murder a barely teenage girl and kill her family*

Byrnzie

catefrances wrote:

you think you can take me steve?

Dr Strangelove: "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"