What are humans role in nature?

surferdude

VictoryGin wrote:

I don't see how shoes could be a replacement. Clearly, shoes are more fun.

My thinking was if you're not going to be barefoot and pregnant you might as well get some shoes so you can go off to work. The watch is so you make it there on time.

surferdude

Given the replies so far the next question is; Can humans do anything unnatrual to the earth?

farfromglorified

surferdude wrote:

Given the replies so far the next question is; Can humans do anything unnatrual to the earth?

Absolutely not. Both human beings and the Earth itself are contained within Natural constraints.

sourdough

Yes. We can alter the composition of the atmosphere, create synthetic virus's, genetically modified organisms, clone sheep, create nuclear waste, toxins etc...

Abookamongstthemany

http://www.rense.com/general72/change.htm

We Can Change Reality
By Ted Twietmeyer
tedtw@frontiernet.net
7-16-6


We live in a world that makes one feel powerless just by reading, seeing or hearing the news. Yet there exists a free defense that transcends government weaponry and requires only effort to use. It is that of the human mind. A recent internet film has focused on the power of attraction to create wealth. Contrary what many think, wealth isn't our most important issue. Freedom is of the highest importance when the entire world is at stake. When freedom is taken away, so it will be with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Freedom is the essence of all that we are, and the basic source of happiness. Anyone doubting freedom as a top priority should look at the history of the people of the old Soviet Union, eastern block countries and East Germany. They were born, lived and died in an oppressive, paranoid existence that's hard to grasp. Yet today, there exists a group of self-appointed world dictators that want to re-create that old style tyranny on a permanent basis for the entire planet. As many have already described it - a prison planet without bars. We don't have to accept that destiny, for the mind is a force on earth that when properly directed is greater than all the dictators combined.

Please understand that this essay isn't about the power of positive thinking, even though it is somewhat related. The difference here is that the power of positive thinking is often just a surface feeling and attitude, while covering up an internal sense of hopelessness deep in the soul. [1] Several experiments have proven that we can change reality, and later I'll give you one you can try yourself.

In one experiment a few years ago, a group of people gathered together in Washington, DC to lower crime through a concentrated mental effort. A reduction of crime by 25% was expected from prior experiments. This experiment was later found to have worked as predicted according to FBI crime statistics. [1]

WE ARE MOSTLY WATER Other well known experiments tested the influence of directed thoughts on the structure of water. We are 80% water. Visible, measurable changes in water take place when the structure is changed by concentrated thought. If you microwave water, let it cool and water plants with it, they will wither and die. Seeds will barely grow or not at all. [2] This simple test shows that water can be changed and it's life giving properties destroyed. It also stands to reason that consuming microwaved food or water cannot be good healthy. We are not only what we eat but clearly we are what we drink, too.

Below are images taken from dark field microscopy tests. This is a special type of microscope. Pure water was exposed to specific thoughts. This produced incredible variations in new crystalline structures. It clearly stands to reason that we can fight disease by moving past the simple concept of positive thinking and taking it even deeper. When our outlook on reality completely changes, it will restructure us down into the very depths of our being at the quantum level.




**see link for pics**

Pure water
(Natural)

Water after
prayer


Water with "thankyou"
label in
Japanese


Water with a "Hitler" label
in Japanese



Is water here responding like it is intelligent? Perhaps not. But Dr. Masaru Emoto's work shown above clearly proves that thought can physically change water. It may not be the actual labels on the water that cause these crystals, but the thoughts exhibited by Dr. Emoto as he labeled the water and thought about the labels. The "Water after prayer" image shown above appears to indicate this. What has not been widely tested (with one exception) is the effect of great distance to limit telekinesis. [3]

One telepathy experiment was conducted between astronaut Edgar Mitchell and a researcher on earth during Apollo 14. Using standard Zener ESP test cards, Mitchell attempted to send images to receiver people on earth 150,000 miles away. This distance is close to the center point in the journey between the Earth and Moon. However, Mitchell's workload caused the experiment to take place about an hour late, which affected results. Some interesting results were obtained, but were not considered conclusive. [4]

OUR REALITY We are all connected together in an invisible neural network through our thoughts, for better or worse. [1] Again, it is us who can change what we perceive as reality. Our bodies are so incredibly complex they are like micro-universes. Cells are based on receptors for neuro-peptide chemicals that represent every emotional state we can experience. There are countless receptor sites on each cell at the molecular level for these chemicals. Much like the way a plug for an electric dryer or electric stove is completely different than that of a standard wall AC outlet, certain receptor sites (outlets) on cells only accept certain neuro-peptide chemicals (plugs.) Neuro-peptides can start a chain reaction among cells until a need is fulfilled. This can be triggered by binge eating, alcohol consumption or other forms of stimulation. If a need is triggered by a neuro-peptide chemical but you can't control it, by definition it becomes an addiction. Heroine works just like any neuro-peptide. [1]

What numerous experiments have proven is that we can mentally affect changes in reality at the quantum level. These changes will manifest themselves at the visible, physical level we see as reality.

Contrary to common belief, we have the freedom of choice to change our own reality. Few people will believe this and cling to the old idea that "we must accept our lot in life." Yet history is full of many people who have risen up what from what many would call "the gutter" to become leaders! How did they do this? By changing their reality by determining their goals in life. If these people did not change their reality, they would have been born, lived and died with their existence completely unknown to others except family and friends. They made the choice to change, and refused to accept their reality by creating a new one.

The only obstacle most people have once they understand this fact, is finding motivation. Apollo 13 faced a sudden terrible reality of being in deep space and running out of oxygen and facing certain death. Engineers on the ground knew the complete content of objects in the spacecraft and Lunar Lander. Using that list, mission control gave the astronauts instructions on how to adapt a CO2 scrubber from the Lunar Lander. This would not normally fit the command module system. This saved their lives.

The engineers refused to accept death as a reality and came up with the solution. Saving the three men's lives required far more thought and brainpower than the non-physical mental process of changing our reality we can implement today. Change doesn't happen overnight and will be gradual. Like a large flywheel, it takes effort to get our change moving but it can be done.

CHANGING OUR REALITY FOR THE BETTER

Our thoughts can do many things to us, including making diseases become better or worse. It is a well known fact that we can directly affect our immune systems as a result of negative thoughts. Yet we can change that. A Google search on this will produce more than 4 million results. Thought control of ourselves is a very real fact, and it may hold the key to fighting and reversing auto-immune disorders without drugs. Cancer is considered an immunity system problem, because the body cannot recognize it's presence. Everyone has cancer (mutated cells) in their systems. The body also normally works around the clock to remove. Those who develop the disease have an immune system that no longer functions correctly to perform this function. Why can't we learn to use just a small part of that idle 90% of our brains to mobilize the immune system to destroy cancer and other diseases?

Trying to rationalize and understand everything can be an obstacle to change, especially when these changes must take place at the quantum level of thought power. We must focus on WHAT we want, not how it will happen. The "how" part will take care of itself. Everyone has a bio-field of energy surrounding them which can be changed for the better with a little effort each day. [1] It requires us to let go of the old idea, "I can't see it so therefore it isn't real." Remember the water experiment? We can physically see the changes on pure water simply from thought. There is an experiment few know about which has been online for about 10 years. At a university in Switzerland there is a radioactive source mounted near a Geiger counter. This experiment allows anyone, anywhere using a computer with JAVA enabled to see in real-time their influence on the radioactive source which creates the random numbers. There are three different ESP experiments which anyone online can participate in. This author first tried this experiment (the bell curve) online in the early 1990's. Although I'm about 10,000 miles from the actual experiment, I can mentally move the red line horizontally on the bell-curve beyond the odds of probability. Most likely you can move the line, too. You concentrate on "right" or "left" and it will move in that direction. But please don't go try this now - this is quite addictive and you won't finish reading!




Still image taken from Fourmilab experiment you can do. Concentration moves the wandering red line left or right after the JAVA experiment loads (not this image.)

CHANGING OUR REALITY

By now you should be thinking about the possible ways we can affect reality - the very one which we thought must be accepted without question. This is powerful information to consider and implementing it won't be easy at first. As stated earlier, our life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is at stake and there is nothing whatsoever to lose and everything to gain. Will we be one of those who lie back and just accept their "lot in life" - or actively work to improve it? Changing our reality isn't about becoming rich or famous even though it certainly is a possible side-effect. What thousands of famous people have proven for us is that anyone can make a difference in their life and the lives of millions of other people.

Today, we must use our minds to save the earth from a tyranny worse than anything we can imagine. And there is little time left.

See [5] below for all the details on using your telepathy to physically change the radioactive decay rate in Switzerland and see your results. After you try the bell-curve experiment, ponder the potential you have inside and what can be accomplished to make our lives better and to fight tyranny.

Ted Twietmeyer
http://www.data4science.net

[1] - Extracted from comments from physicians and scientists in the film "What the Bleep Do We Know?" (2004)
[2] - http://www.rense.com/general70/microwaved.htm
[3] - http://www.godsdirectcontact.org/eng/news/131/ss2.htm / Dr. Masaru Emoto
[4] - http://www.physics.smu.edu/pseudo/ESP/
[5] - http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/bellcurve/
(requires JAVA enabled on your computer)

farfromglorified

sourdough wrote:

Yes. We can alter the composition of the atmosphere, create synthetic virus's, genetically modified organisms, clone sheep, create nuclear waste, toxins etc...

Every single thing you mention is a product of nature, involving natural ingredients.

Would you refer to evolution as "unnatural" (genetic modification)? Would you refer to the sun as "unnatural" (nuclear waste)? Would you refer to the birth of elements in the Big Bang as "synthetic"?

sourdough

Sure they are composed of natural ingredients, it does not make the action of producing them anymore "natural". Nuclear fission on the sun is unassisted and a natural occurring event. Us tinkering with atoms in a lab is not. A conventional birth is natural. Cloning another animal in a petri dish is not. It is the action/process that is unnatural.

I think I know where this is all leading to. The argument that we are natural, therefore we cannot act unnaturally, therefore anything we are doing is okay because it is all natural and natural can't be bad. Its poor logic.

angelica

Thank-you, Abook. I love the information.

farfromglorified

sourdough wrote:

Sure they are composed of natural ingredients, it does not make the action of producing them anymore "natural".

Ok. How are they "unnatural"?

Nuclear fission on the sun is unassisted and a natural occurring event.

Unassisted by men? Certainly. Unassisted by other natural elements? No. Can I claim that cloning is natural because it is unassisted by Cheetahs and it occurs as a product of natural human beings?

Us tinkering with atoms in a lab is not.

Why?

A conventional birth is natural.

Why?

Cloning another animal in a petri dish is not.

Why?

It is the action/process that is unnatural.

Why?

I think I know where this is all leading to. The argument that we are natural, therefore we cannot act unnaturally, therefore anything we are doing is okay because it is all natural and natural can't be bad. Its poor logic.

It's completely sound logic. It's not a matter of "bad". Plenty of natural things can be bad depending on your standards of good/bad.

angelica

sourdough wrote:

Sure they are composed of natural ingredients, it does not make the action of producing them anymore "natural". Nuclear fission on the sun is unassisted and a natural occurring event. Us tinkering with atoms in a lab is not. A conventional birth is natural. Cloning another animal in a petri dish is not. It is the action/process that is unnatural.

I think I know where this is all leading to. The argument that we are natural, therefore we cannot act unnaturally, therefore anything we are doing is okay because it is all natural and natural can't be bad. Its poor logic.

Do you believe we operate outside of natural laws then? Do our actions become supernatural then? Is there one reality system that is natural and we move beyond that?

surferdude

sourdough wrote:

Yes. We can alter the composition of the atmosphere, create synthetic virus's, genetically modified organisms, clone sheep, create nuclear waste, toxins etc...

So you do think that humans can act unnaturally. Where did we learn these unnatural ways? Have any other species learned to act unnaturally?

Abookamongstthemany

angelica wrote:

Thank-you, Abook. I love the information.

I thought you might like it.

catefrances

angelica wrote:

Humans are the only species who have awareness of their own actions and of the consequences of such actions. This ability, along with our ability to reason is unique among all life on the planet. Such ability evolved for a reason, to meet our specific purposes.

It is our mammalian brain that our compassion and empathy comes from. As the name suggests, mammals have this capacity. It is humans, however, who developed beyond emotions and have reasoning ability--we can reason about what to do with our compassion and empathy in order to create more constructively. It may not be normal in nature, yet it looks like such ability has evolved for a normal-for-humans reason.

what is reason?
you're not saying we are the only species with the ability to reason are you?

sourdough

ok... hmmm trying to articulate what I'm thinking. Angelica I think you might be closer along the lines to what I'm trying to say. I don't think the examples provided are natural because they involve manipulation and distortion of things that are natural therefore creating things that would not be under ordinary circumstances.

Where did we learn these unnatural actions and do other species act unnaturally? Well, we learned how to do these things through science and trial and error. No I don't believe any other species acts unnaturally. There is no parallel or even vague example of other species mimicking any of these acts.

surferdude

sourdough wrote:

Where did we learn these unnatural actions and do other species act unnaturally? Well, we learned how to do these things through science and trial and error. No I don't believe any other species acts unnaturally. There is no parallel or even vague example of other species mimicking any of these acts.

Are you saying the study of science is unnatural? If so, is this an endeavour we should outlaw?

69charger

surferdude wrote:

Some serious question for you. What is our role in nature?

Two words: Top Predator.

OutOfBreath

farfromglorified wrote:

I believe that I'm a spaceship. How's that working out for me?

Well, if you believe you're onboard a spaceship called earth, it should work out fine. And the point again is not believing makes physically true. It's about theoretical and conceptual beliefs about things that are not hard physical things. Such as our role in nature. You cant verify "but you're wrong" in that case. Me believing myself to be an orange and then becoming one is of course absurd.

That's new to me.

I thought I maybe had gone into it before, but I'll give the quick rundown on the concept of "second nature". I think the source is "the dialectic of the enlightenment" by Adorno & Horkheimer.

First, humans are subject to nature and it's unpredictability. We have little ability to influence it, and are at the mercy of weather and other circumstances in the nature around us. We have to adapt to and accept the effects of nature on our lives. Then we have the enlightenment and the coming of the modern age (modern meaning more specifically a time-period and certain developments, rather than in the understanding of "new"). Man starts to control nature to lessen the impacts of the whims of nature. Which is what science is all about. Controlling and harnessing nature. Through this process the unpredictability and uncertainty of nature can be reduced and perhaps all done away with and give humans full control. This is the vision of the enlightenment and the industrial age (the modern age) up to about the world wars.

Now here is where second nature enters as a concept. When we get these huge complex societies with complex economic systems and myriad branches of science and so on, it may seem that the control is slipping again. But this time not due to the uncertainty and unpredictability of nature, but due to our own systems and institutions being unpredictable and uncertain. Thus we are under a "second nature" where we again dont have control over our surroundings, but this time in the manmade surroundings themselves. This concept has been utilized by many, especially when it comes to pollution, toxins in food and otherwise, medicine and so on. The world is not essentially any more under our control than it used to be long ago, but the risks we are running are now increasingly manmade rather than of nature.

Did I succeed in getting that across?
This was then meant as a comment to the "we're in control of our surroundings" statement, that I don't agree with without qualifications.

Peace
Dan

OutOfBreath

Sourdough, you seem to be of the understanding that natural is a state without humans or human intervention, int he way many environmental agencies think about it. Humans are very much part of nature, and anything we do are part of nature. Nature always changes, have disasters and so on (arguably we can be one).

Now just because things are not unnatural, doesn't mean they can't be wrong or bad according to our perceptions and values. But natural/unnatural is not what's at stake. It's plain old good/bad judgements. For instance, it is nothing against nature to scorch most of the world with nukes, as they operate by the laws of physics. However, I would certainly call it bad, and not good for us humans (and most other life).

Environmentalism is first and foremost a venture to save ourselves, not "the planet" or "nature". Both will always be there, but we can fuck them up to a point where we cannot be part of it, and destroy the world as a human habitat. That's what's at stake most often. So we have to be careful, certainly.

Peace
Dan

Eva7

Ahnimus wrote:

We are parasites

We destroy our host planet

I totally agree. I figure it better like a cancer. At the beginning maybe we were part of the same organism, but then a particular cell, the humankind, has gone mad. So the cancer is destroying itself and its natural environment by its same hands. Maybe it all was already in its DNA. But I trust in nature. Nature always finds its antibodies against any threat.

PaperPlates

I will answer this when I get home.