Business Ethics - Profit Distribution Problem

surferdude

soulsinging wrote:

such hostility from you. you like to get personal dont you? cant rebut my points, so you attack my character... you were born for politics, what with your inability to make a real point and recourse to throwing playground insinuations about me as a person around instead. i never notice you do this with anyone else on here. but this is the second time you've taken personal shots at me. dyou recall the first? you even pm'ed me to apologize. so what gives eh?

i dont give a flying fuck about poor homeless people cos there's not a damn thing i can do about them right now. if i had $200 million a year in income, id show a little more concern for their plight and id certainly show some consideration for my employees.

Give me a break. This post was done purely in jest. Why is mentioning any part of your life getting personal, but you mentioning part of my life not (ie Christian)? If you had no qualms about studying to become a lawyer you'd let any and all comments about lawyers slide right off your back.

soulsinging

surferdude wrote:

Give me a break. This post was done purely in jest. Why is mentioning any part of your life getting personal, but you mentioning part of my life not (ie Christian)? If you had no qualms about studying to become a lawyer you'd let any and all comments about lawyers slide right off your back.

i didnt know you were christian, nor do i care. you can make all the comments you like about lawyers, i got the impression your comments were directed at other areas of my life. if that is not the case, then we've no issue here. im heading out for the night... not with a girl unfortunately (my gf is in cbus), but you never know who you might come home with right?

miller8966

If you pay someone more money for doing the same amount of work as before at the same pace than you shouldnt be in business.

Join the red cross or something

musicismylife78

by definiton to be a buisness person, the hypothetical you posed, isnt a hypothetical, it is basic buisness 101 stuff. Its not a question of if they would do it, of course they cheat their workers and dont give them their fair share of money.

Look at Microsoft. How many Windows CD's has bill gates made, and when I say made, I mean physicially created the cd on an assembly line, and packaged the box and all that? Yet who is the billionaire, and who gets paid measly wages?

The buisnessperson, although they should feel obliated to give profit to their workers, wont and dont. Capitalism breeds greed, racism, exploitation.

The bottom line on any buisness is money. And workers always try and get their fair share of the profit, by trying to force the management to get them more wages, while the employers try and squeeze all the money they can from the labor of the worker

As a famous person once put it: If a man tells you he's rich, ask him whose work he got rich off

Its surplus value, surplus labor.

To the buisnessman, the worker is expendable. Useless. They are not human, they are things that can be exploited and made to work faster and faster to increase the profit margin.

The question shouldnt be, is it right for a buisnessman to keep profit from his employees. The question must become, how can we let this rotten system stand? How can we continue to believe in this false idea of capitalism and a system of so called merit, when its plain to see its a sham?

The question must become, when will we dismantle capitalism and install something more humane?

The question must become, how long will you stand this crap? How long are you willing to make bread crumbs while the white rich greedy CEO goes to Thailand on vacation off your money?

I say destroy capitalism and start the revolution

Capitalism is inherently evil, as long as it exists, every buisness is run the way the originial poster suggested. No good capitalism exists. Only when it lay in ruins is it good


RISE! SET IT OFF!

musicismylife78

profit only flows one way, out of the hands of the people who deserve it ie the workers and into the hands of ignorant racist capitalist pigs also known as managers, CEO's etc...


Buisness is unethical by definition. You really think any buisness with the exception of a few spend time thinking about ethics? Hell no!!!

The motive is to make as much loot as possible, and if that means cheating, stealing, killing, lieing or otherwise, then so be it.

Until capitalism is dead, this will continue on and on and on

Until workers control the system and until we as citizens get to decide a company is run, only then will things be tolerable.

By definition, a company will always owe their workers more money.

Heres an example:

If you have to work 8 hours a day, its in the capitalists interest to divide the day up mentally in his head. He will tell himself that his workers will work 8 hours a day but he will try and speed up the time necessary for survival and food and water. So he will make it so you done enough work 3 hours in, that you have reproduced your neccessities. You have done enough work to necessitate bein paid your contracted wage. But the capitalist wants you to continue working. And you still have 5 more hours remember? So who do you think makes money off the majority of the day, The 5 hours in this hypothetical? is it the worker, or the capitalist? So the capitalist wants to increase this surplus time, because all the profits and windfall go to him. While the worker wants to lessen that time and increase the time he spends on getting paid his wages.

Workers are expendable. And if anyone tries to strike, they just hire strikebreakers from the army reserve of labor who are willing to work for less money.

Capitalism kills

South of Seattle

Cheguevara6 wrote:

Look at Microsoft. How many Windows CD's has bill gates made, and when I say made, I mean physicially created the cd on an assembly line, and packaged the box and all that? Yet who is the billionaire, and who gets paid measly wages?

That comparison is pretty bad dude. You're saying the guy on the assembly line should be the rich one?

Bill Gates is a Gabillionaire and donates Gabillions of dollars to charity and worthwhile causes. I'd rather him do that than give his assembly worker $10 per hour more than any other assembly line worker.

musicismylife78

indeed gates should be praised for his charity work. Thats very cool. He seems to admit he doesnt deserve all this money.


The point I am making about Gates and those on the assembly line is that why dont you think the people who actually make hundreds of CD ROMS daily, why dont they get paid billions?

If you are making hundreds of CD ROMS like these workers, while Bill Gates sits at home (and donates money), who deserves to be the rich one?

The question must be asked: who is the thing that makes the profit for the corporation?

Is the CEO who cheats workers and sits in his office all day, deserving of high pay?

Or is the worker, who generates profit daily, and actually physically works, are they deserving of higher pay?

Bill Gates hasnt made a CDROM in years, yet he rakes in millions, billions yearly.

Workers, daily produce the product that made him rich, and they get paid in breadcrumbs


As I said before, to talk about the benefits of capitalism is to talk like a madman.

Workers deserve fair pay, and those kids who die daily and the women who are raped by foreman in thailand while making those nike shoes deserve millions of dollars, while the rich racist white bigot who is CEO of nike deserves little money, if anything.

Do you think Phil Knight should be a billionaire if he hasnt ever made a Nike shoe? Is it fair for him to be raking in the dough while little kids in Thailand are being paid in cents for his shoes? Is that fair?

I would rather the money go to that kid than to someone like Phil Knight or Bill Gates.

A good capitalism doesnt exist. It must be dismantled immediately. Nothing this system does is in our interest. Nothing.

musicismylife78

what is making Gates rich? Could it possibly be the workers who slave daily in hell for little to no monetary gain? Or does the money just appear magically and do the cd roms get assembled by themselves?

Ebizzie

Cheguevara6 wrote:

by definiton to be a buisness person, the hypothetical you posed, isnt a hypothetical, it is basic buisness 101 stuff. Its not a question of if they would do it, of course they cheat their workers and dont give them their fair share of money.

Look at Microsoft. How many Windows CD's has bill gates made, and when I say made, I mean physicially created the cd on an assembly line, and packaged the box and all that? Yet who is the billionaire, and who gets paid measly wages?

The buisnessperson, although they should feel obliated to give profit to their workers, wont and dont. Capitalism breeds greed, racism, exploitation.

The bottom line on any buisness is money. And workers always try and get their fair share of the profit, by trying to force the management to get them more wages, while the employers try and squeeze all the money they can from the labor of the worker

As a famous person once put it: If a man tells you he's rich, ask him whose work he got rich off

Its surplus value, surplus labor.

To the buisnessman, the worker is expendable. Useless. They are not human, they are things that can be exploited and made to work faster and faster to increase the profit margin.

The question shouldnt be, is it right for a buisnessman to keep profit from his employees. The question must become, how can we let this rotten system stand? How can we continue to believe in this false idea of capitalism and a system of so called merit, when its plain to see its a sham?

The question must become, when will we dismantle capitalism and install something more humane?

The question must become, how long will you stand this crap? How long are you willing to make bread crumbs while the white rich greedy CEO goes to Thailand on vacation off your money?

I say destroy capitalism and start the revolution

Capitalism is inherently evil, as long as it exists, every buisness is run the way the originial poster suggested. No good capitalism exists. Only when it lay in ruins is it good


RISE! SET IT OFF!

Where to start?

Firstly, those individuals who were with Microsoft in the early days, secretaries, programmers, you name it, they're all fucking filthy rich now, every one of them. Those profits were shared and Microsoft is STILL a great company to work for.

Your whole rant ignores the fact that there are most definitely human assets that are worth a lot to a business. If you want to talk about factory line workers, janitors, and the lot, you're right, they're COMPLETELY expendable and easily replaced. But the vast majority of many companies, especially those in the technology business, do not employ expendable people with expendable skillsets. If Google said, "yo, programmers and developers, we're sick of you bitching about money so you're all fired", watch what happens to their stock price. Profits mean everything to shareholders and yes, sometimes those shareholders do want lower operating costs which means layoffs, but often those cuts are truly effective at cutting the fat. I've worked for a company that literally went through 10 rounds of layoffs in a matter of 2-3 years. I can honestly say that of all the people I know who were cut, which is a high number, VERY few of them didn't deserve to be axed. Most of them were truly fat, sitting there earning a paycheck for doing the bare minimum.

Why do you think many of the companies on the Fortune 500 are desirable employers? They keep their people happy which in turn improves productivity.

But you're probably right, we should let all industry be controlled by the fucking government. That's a brilliant plan. Those are some of the most trustworthy fuckers on the planet.

South of Seattle

Cheguevara6 wrote:

what is making Gates rich? Could it possibly be the workers who slave daily in hell for little to no monetary gain? Or does the money just appear magically and do the cd roms get assembled by themselves?

Who developed what is on that cd-rom? Not the assembly line worker. Bill Gates has impacted all of our lives and is very big reason why technology has advanced to where we are today.

Is that assembly line worker the one promoting the product? Flying all over giving presentations?

There are machines that press all of those CD's and move them down the line.

YourBuddy

surferdude wrote:

Imagine this scenario. You are the owner of a company that has been losing money for the past few years. You've drawn on both a personal and a company line of credit to keep the company solvent and meet payroll. Your staff are all paid at or above market average.

You've spent considerable time coming up with a new business plan. You've come up with a plan you are sure will work that will involve investing in technology and additional staff. You invest a considerable amount of your money, have had a few private investors commit some money and have given allyour employees a chance to invest but no employees do invest.

Three years later your plan has been a fantastic success. Not a single employee has been asked to do more than they previously were as the plan included hiring new staff.

Do you feel obligated in sharing the new huge profits with your staff? Do you feel the government should obligate you to share the profits with the staff?

I think that would depend on the employees, if they maybe went above regular duty to help make a success then yes. Remember your plan would not work with out the backbone of the companies staff. But, if the employees just did as they did when the company was failing then no, they obviously were skating by and didnt really care what happened in the end

sponger

I would consider their disposable income prior to the growth spurt. If they were barely making enough money to put food on the table, then I wouldn't have expected them to invest. If they were putting extra dollars into nicer cars and HD tv's, then I'd tell them to go screw themselves.