Home› A Moving Train

US soldiers fire on Shepherd´s Flock in Iraq

MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
edited November 2008 in A Moving Train
http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=11017
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • MichaelMcKevinMichaelMcKevin Posts: 1,161
    Cool. more reasons for people to hate Americans. Absolute disrespect for the shepherd, his sheep, Iraq, and pretty much anything of anyone else's... THE AMERICAN DREAM
    Camden I '06, Camden II '06, Bonnaroo '08, Camden I '08, Camden II '08, Philly Spectrum II/III/IV '09, MSG I '10, MSG II '10, Made In America '12, Wrigley '13, Brooklyn II '13, Philly I '13, Philly II '13, ...
  • Smellyman2Smellyman2 Posts: 689
    what heroes.
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    Those fucking sheep were begging for it!
    You saw that shit?

    Maybe they should have kept their fucking "Bahs" to themselves, and not tried to fuck with the mighty US Military!

    AHahahahahH!

    AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
    AMERICA, FUCK YEAH!
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    Smellyman wrote:
    what heroes.
    exactly.
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Don't judge the actions of all based on the few. Those fuck heads are a fucking disgrace.....
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Don't judge the actions of all based on the few. Those fuck heads are a fucking disgrace.....
    but that's the kind of shit that happens during war. I think one of the reasons we even saw this video is because it happened to sheep. This kind of shit happens to people all the time, but we never see it.

    I did see a vid with these British mercs doing exactly the same thing, only they were driving around Iraq and shooting at cars....and laughing...it was around 20 minutes long. Of course all info relating to the story is no longer available...but it was a private military contracting company, Aegis something, from England, huge contract from the Pentagon...and they were driving around shooting at cars. Some of the drivers were killed.

    Knowing shit like this happens during war should be incentive enough to never start one.
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Commy wrote:
    but that's the kind of shit that happens during war. I think one of the reasons we even saw this video is because it happened to sheep. This kind of shit happens to people all the time, but we never see it.

    I did see a vid with these British mercs doing exactly the same thing, only they were driving around Iraq and shooting at cars....and laughing...it was around 20 minutes long. Of course all info relating to the story is no longer available...but it was a private military contracting company, Aegis something, from England, huge contract from the Pentagon...and they were driving around shooting at cars. Some of the drivers were killed.

    Knowing shit like this happens during war should be incentive enough to never start one.

    I hate examples like this....its a slap in the face to majority of people there trying to do there job, but more importantly innocent people are killed or put in danger form shit like this.

    My point is don't get carried away with examples like these. For every thousand things we do right, one bad example erases them all.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    I hate examples like this....its a slap in the face to majority of people there trying to do there job, but more importantly innocent people are killed or put in danger form shit like this.


    Who is to say the majority are doing the 'right thing'?

    According to this US soldier, who served at least 1 term in Iraq...the norm is to do shit like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6iLoXIpJFQ
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Commy wrote:
    Who is to say the majority are doing the 'right thing'?

    According to this US soldier, who served at least 1 term in Iraq...the norm is to do shit like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6iLoXIpJFQ

    And why hasn't any charges under the UCMJ been brought to him and his commander? Whats with the vague account as to the details of his stories? By all of his personal accounts of shooting innocent people, why isn't he in jail? Or is the fact that hes leaving out important details for the sake of people believing him? Does him coming clean in a press conference clear him of his crimes?

    I'm just telling you that its not all like that...not all black and white, as much as you want it to be.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    And why hasn't any charges under the UCMJ been brought to him and his vague account as to the details of his stories? By all of his personal accounts of shooting innocent people, why isn't he in jail? Or is the fact that hes leaving out important details for the sake of people believing him? Does him coming clean in a press conference clear him of his crimes?

    I'm just telling you that its not all like that...not all black and white, as much as want it to be.

    what details?

    it was just one account from one US soldier...and what he described was a system of corruption...for individual troops to ignore the rules of engagement, for individual troops to get recognized for getting their first kill, told to do this by their commanding officers.

    the fact that he is coming forward and could be held accountable for his crimes is quite the endorsement of the authenticity of his claims. He could go to jail for this.
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Commy wrote:
    what details?

    it was just one account from one US soldier...and what he described was a system of corruption...for individual troops to ignore the rules of engagement, for individual troops to get recognized for getting their first kill, told to do this by their commanding officers.

    the fact that he is coming forward and could be held accountable for his crimes is quite the endorsement of the authenticity of his claims. He could go to jail for this.


    HE SHOULD BE IN JAIL FOR THIS....NO COULD ABOUT IT.

    Well more specifically, about what the individuals were doing just prior to being killed? What kind of operation where they trying to accomplish? Those kind of important details, you know the facts....something that seems to get left behind.

    Why now does he have some sort of moment of clarity and morality now that he is back? Why the fuck his ass isn't in jail for killing innocent people, but hes in some press conference getting applauded for staging a pathetic attempt for sympathy because hes a fucking scum bag? He knew right from wrong, so why are people supporting him? You are seeing a distorted side of things.....

    I just find the whole thing a little hard to believe, that some one will come out with this kind of information that could land him some jail time and soon enough charged with war crimes, to be so open about it with a sympathetic audience. You find nothing wrong with this what so ever?

    Or is it fine because he helps a special interest gain support?

    Its all a little too John Kerryish for me to believe....
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    I don't see anything wrong with this, other than the message this soldier is trying to get across. His commanding officer told him to ignore the rules of engagement, rewarded him for his first kill, even though it was an unarmed civilian riding a bike, and did the same for everyone in his company. this isn't a case of 1 individual trying to cover his own ass, its a case of systemic corruption on the part of the US military.

    did you hear the part about the US troops carrying ak's and other weapons used by the insurgents, so they could plant them on civilians in case they killed innocents? that's corruption. that's not 1 individual.


    the US soldier in the vid is a criminal, but by speaking out against the atrocities he trying to make sure they don't happen again.
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Commy wrote:
    I don't see anything wrong with this, other than the message this soldier is trying to get across. His commanding officer told him to ignore the rules of engagement, rewarded him for his first kill, even though it was an unarmed civilian riding a bike, and did the same for everyone in his company. this isn't a case of 1 individual trying to cover his own ass, its a case of systemic corruption on the part of the US military.

    did you hear the part about the US troops carrying ak's and other weapons used by the insurgents, so they could plant them on civilians in case they killed innocents? that's corruption. that's not 1 individual.


    the US soldier in the vid is a criminal, but by speaking out against the atrocities he trying to make sure they don't happen again.


    He had the obligation to ignore his orders of his commanding officer..

    "Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.

    "I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since."

    http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm

    So his ass should be charged, end of story. So with this being FACT, why is he so willing to come forward with his story if he knows he can go to jail for this?

    Hes not speaking out for anything.....lets look at the big picture here. What this whole group is about is disinformation to sway people's opinions. They leave out key facts to twist the story around. So people eat this shit up and want to jump on the anti war band wagon. It was only a couple of years ago when every one was so gung ho about going to war. This is no different then the far right filling peoples heads with the idea that terrorist are out to get them vs the far left filling peoples heads with the idea that we are a bunch of savage baby killers. So whats the point of all this? To sway peoples support for one side or another. Thats how Obama got elected...the whole "anti-war" platform....but whats the reality now that he won? Do you really think things will change.

    What kills me is that people only see a narrow scope of things. Lets say we do what you and 90% of people on this board want to do and completely pull everyone out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow. Will the problem be solved? Lets go even further and totally stop selling arms and supporting Israel, will the world come together in peace? Lets step back for a moment and try to see if that will really end everything.

    But back to our narrow scope....yes these things happen. It doesn't make it right, nor should we condone it. By listening to this guy ramble on and supporting him goes against everything the anti-war position stands for. He is a criminal, end of story. Put him on trial and lets see the facts come out.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Commy wrote:
    I don't see anything wrong with this, other than the message this soldier is trying to get across. His commanding officer told him to ignore the rules of engagement, rewarded him for his first kill, even though it was an unarmed civilian riding a bike, and did the same for everyone in his company. this isn't a case of 1 individual trying to cover his own ass, its a case of systemic corruption on the part of the US military.

    did you hear the part about the US troops carrying ak's and other weapons used by the insurgents, so they could plant them on civilians in case they killed innocents? that's corruption. that's not 1 individual.


    the US soldier in the vid is a criminal, but by speaking out against the atrocities he trying to make sure they don't happen again.


    yeah...drop guns.

    NICE!

    here man plant the evidence...that was sweet...

    who's next? git some!
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Joe2TheRevengeJoe2TheRevenge Posts: 904
    MrBrian wrote:
    http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=11017

    i feel much safer now.

    Thank Jesus for President Bush's Oil/Sheep war.
    You can't spell "dumb" without DMB
  • Joe2TheRevengeJoe2TheRevenge Posts: 904
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Don't judge the actions of all based on the few.

    i judge every asshole American running around with a gun in Iraq

    They're all a bunch of murderous pieces of shit.
    You can't spell "dumb" without DMB
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    tell us how you really feel...:D


    'those sheep were providing clothing to the terrorists!' (comment in link)
    that is some brilliant political satire right there.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    He had the obligation to ignore his orders of his commanding officer..
    what's the punishment for disobeying a direct order?
    "Seems like pretty good motivation to obey any order you're given, right? Nope. These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.
    the very structure of the system requires obedience. no one man wants to be a martyr...and given this guys story, it wasn't his choice to obey or disobey, everyone around him was doing something wrong. And that's the real story. If this one guy-who, as you said had a choice to disobey an unlawful order-chose to obey but later spoke out against his atrocities-how widespread is this? how much does it take for an individual to come clean? it took this guy quite some time-until after the atrocities had been committed to finally realize the situation was broken. What we should be taking from this is the fact that this guy spoke out against the systemic corruption that is the US military. Its inherent in the structure of the system to kill innocents. that's the reality.
    "I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since."
    http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm

    If you're going to apply the Nuremburg trials hang every US president since Truman,
    So his ass should be charged, end of story. So with this being FACT, why is he so willing to come forward with his story if he knows he can go to jail for this?
    Exactly. He knows what he did was criminal, and still he is speaking out. That alone should be proof of the validity of his story. If he can go to jail for what he is saying, obviously his motives are bigger than what he alone did. He is trying to prevent further atrocities.
    Hes not speaking out for anything.....lets look at the big picture here. What this whole group is about is disinformation to sway people's opinions. They leave out key facts to twist the story around. So people eat this shit up and want to jump on the anti war band wagon. It was only a couple of years ago when every one was so gung ho about going to war. This is no different then the far right filling peoples heads with the idea that terrorist are out to get them vs the far left filling peoples heads with the idea that we are a bunch of savage baby killers. So whats the point of all this? To sway peoples support for one side or another. Thats how Obama got elected...the whole "anti-war" platform....but whats the reality now that he won? Do you really think things will change.
    Obama wasn't elected on an anti war platform. He voted to fund the war.

    This is a case of an individual involved in the war, speaking out against the very procedure used to carry it out. I think you need to realize the US invaded Iraq, and is currently occupying the country. Its not left or right rhetoric we are dealing with, its about an individual involved in the occupation, who has realized what it is to fight a war.

    What kills me is that people only see a narrow scope of things. Lets say we do what you and 90% of people on this board want to do and completely pull everyone out of Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow. Will the problem be solved? Lets go even further and totally stop selling arms and supporting Israel, will the world come together in peace? Lets step back for a moment and try to see if that will really end everything.
    Actually, I do think we should pull out tomorrow. Considering "A record 60% [In Iraq] say the United States should set a timetable to withdraw forces "and stick to that timetable regardless of what is going on in Iraq." (USA Today) http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-09-09-poll_N.htm yes, I think the US military should withdraw.

    AND

    "as of January 2005:82 percent of Sunni Arabs and 69 percent of Shiites favor a US withdrawal either immediately or after an elected government is in place. (Zogby)

    So I'm not the only one in favor of a US withdrawal. Do the people of Iraq have any say in this?
    But back to our narrow scope....yes these things happen. It doesn't make it right, nor should we condone it. By listening to this guy ramble on and supporting him goes against everything the anti-war position stands for. He is a criminal, end of story. Put him on trial and lets see the facts come out.

    I'm all for a trial. And I bet this individual would be for it as well. What he did was criminal, but what his company did was even worse. and his CO was just as wrong for rewarding his actions. The problem isn't with this one individual, its with the entire structure of the system, one that rewards individuals for acts we consider to be criminal. The very structure is to blame, not this one individual.
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Fair enough....but you know if we leave while they still don't have their shit together, we will be back again.


    Let me ask you this, would you be so sympathetic to Bush if he came clean in such a manor?

    I'm not a JAG lawyer, so I don't know the punishment for it. But you still can't get away with it, the law is the law, stop with the double standards. Just because he speaks out in a press conference doesn't mean he isn't lying...or the fact that its on youtube must mean its true? What if he never came out and joined this silly group, but bragged about his accomplishment over there? So are you telling me I can break the law, but as long as I come clean in a liberal press conference...I'm ok? When I was in basic, they made it clear that following an unlawful order was just as bad as not following a lawful one. I don't see how he missed that?

    You want change in the military? Put his ass on trail.

    I'm really surprise by your comments, for some one who is always talking about equality and the right thing...where are you on this one?
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • OffHeGoes29OffHeGoes29 Posts: 1,240
    Joe2TheRevenge wrote:
    i judge every asshole American running around with a gun in Iraq

    They're all a bunch of murderous pieces of shit.

    Way to go, very intelligent. I’m happy to see generalization is a live and well to form opinions
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    Highly inflaming....wow!!!! must forgive, must forgive, must forgive...
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • Red BurritoRed Burrito Posts: 479
    OffHeGoes29 wrote:
    Don't judge the actions of all based on the few. Those fuck heads are a fucking disgrace.....

    I agree that would should not generalize. But how many times do we have to say "Don't judge the actions of all based on the few" until something is truly done?
    the sorrow grows bigger, when the sorrow's denied
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Ah come on, it's just some sheep. It's only someone's livelihood.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Red BurritoRed Burrito Posts: 479
    Collin wrote:
    Ah come on, it's just some sheep. It's only someone's livelihood.

    Exactly...

    "Oops, sorry Mr. Sheperd. Now you will not be able to support your family or youself. But hey, these are times of war, anything goes, right? I don't see the problem, I was just following orders."
    -says stupid Amercan soldier
    the sorrow grows bigger, when the sorrow's denied
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    the entire experience is appalling, however, the laughter in the background exposes real cancer..
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
Sign In or Register to comment.