America Needs a McCain/Palin Presidency

MrBrian

If he wins, things would get worse? Probably? Maybe? Possibly? If Obama wins? Things may improve just a touch? Probably? Maybe? Possibly? Now that seems to be the thinking of many Americans, That seems to be enough for many Americans. They are so tired, even a touch of 'change' is enough.

Even people who would voted 3rd parties in previous elections are voting for Obama. Now I can understand that thinking. But I have an issue with it, you see if Obama wins, things wont change as much as they should, we hear Obama speak, we see the way he votes. He simply is not what the country needs. He is a guy on a sinking ship saying "I hope we don't sink", fact is, the ships still going to sink. All the hope in the world will not change that fact. So I say, let it sink. Only let is sink faster, let's get McCain in office.

At the end of the day, (and I'm sure most will agree) Obama is not that big of a change, not enough change would be more accurate. Maybe it's time for America to really go under, like a pimple being popped, You get the puss, then blood, then the healing. Obama and many of is supporters don't want to empty that pimple out, they just want to put a band aid on it. They have no heart to finish the job.

So maybe A McCain win will be better in the long run than an Obama win. I feel this way because maybe things in America need to get even worse, I mean really really really bad. Then a 3rd party candidate will have more of a chance. The masses will be so upset, they will be demanding real change. They will not except diet versions of anything. Or at the very least force the dems to take on the issues and policies of a Nader or a Ron Paul, not continue more to the right as it seems they are doing in many ways.

Right now people are so tired of the last 8 years, they are not demanding anything on Obama. Maybe if things get even worse (and apparently multiple wars, people losing jobs and whatever else is not bad enough) things will get better, the people will wake up?

Change does not happen overnight, Maybe more people in third world countries need to die? Maybe more people need to lose their jobs? Maybe these things need to happen for real change to occur.
Maybe a time will come when a candidate does not have to bow down towards Israel, maybe a time will come when a candidate will not have to speak all tough to get elected.

I'm sorry but voting for Obama is not the solution. It's just a true....Wasted Vote.
----

Now I would also like to add that in good conscience I can't say vote for McCain, but I can say that voting for a 3rd party is a better option, you are voting for the best candidate. end of story. Not the one that just has a chance to win. Yes, let's take votes away from Obama. Maybe one day the dems will see that they are not doing enough to earn votes. They are not truly speaking to the people.

Or are they?

QuestionAuthority

HUH?

Sorry... missing your point totally.

FiveB247x

So you're saying: in our nation, things have to get worse before they get better. McCain in the long run is worse than Obama because Obama isn't enough of a legitimate change to fix our problems. Therefore vote to make things worse which will rattle people up to fix things for the long term.

I don't agree but understand where you're coming from.

MrBrian

FiveB247x wrote:

So you're saying: in our nation, things have to get worse before they get better. McCain in the long run is worse than Obama because Obama isn't enough of a legitimate change to fix our problems. Therefore vote to make things worse which will rattle people up to fix things for the long term.

I don't agree but understand where you're coming from.

Sort of.

check this out, I'm not saying vote for McCain, I'm saying don't vote for the dems. The goal is to get the dems to see that they are not getting votes or losing votes to 3rd parties because they are not taking on the issues or say the policies that the people really want.

It's the only way. The only real way. Sometimes things do need to get worse before they get better.

Kann

Strongly disagree with the first part of your argument. The US is not a pimple, there are far too important things at stake (I'm looking at the middle east here) and a strong but intelligent US president is now very very important for the rest of the world (I'm looking at Bush here).
However this part :

Now I would also like to add that in good conscience I can't say vote for McCain, but I can say that voting for a 3rd party is a better option, you are voting for the best candidate. end of story. Not the one that just has a chance to win. Yes, let's take votes away from Obama. Maybe one day the dems will see that they are not doing enough to earn votes. They are not truly speaking to the people.

is right on. I don't know how it's done in the US but unfortunately from what I saw here, here is how this goes :
step 1 : the moderate left doesn't win the election because it lost too many voices on it's 3rd party left fringe.
step 2 : After the election there's a little bit of blame placed on everyone, the moderate does a mea culpa and swears next time they'll listen to these voices and make their programs accordingly.
step 3 : 5 years of shitty politics later everyone is tired and wants change, the moderate left thinks that things are so bad they can come back with a center-left program.
step 4 : repeat step 1.
This has been going on for 15 years here. It's kind of depressing, so in the end I've become an advocate of "anything for a change" because some right-wing presidents are way too bad for the country to put your principles first.

decides2dream

MrBrian wrote:

Sort of.

check this out, I'm not saying vote for McCain, I'm saying don't vote for the dems. The goal is to get the dems to see that they are not getting votes or losing votes to 3rd parties because they are not taking on the issues or say the policies that the people really want.

It's the only way. The only real way. Sometimes things do need to get worse before they get better.

i think they've already gotten *worse*...the past 8 years is testament to that imho. i am not voting for the 'dems' i am voting for a candidate, as i do every time i vote. i don't vote for parties, i vote for people. and yes, i will be voting obama. i DO think he will be an effective president and exactly what we need as a country, and for the the rest of the world as well. obviously you disagree, and that's cool too. i personally hope more americans feel and think as i do this election, but we shall see soon enough.

MrBrian

Kann wrote:

Strongly disagree with the first part of your argument. The US is not a pimple, there are far too important things at stake (I'm looking at the middle east here) and a strong but intelligent US president is now very very important for the rest of the world (I'm looking at Bush here).

Let's take Obama mid east policies, not that great. He sides with Israel to the fullest. Refuses to spaek about the root cause of the tensions. Only views Palestinian actions as terrorism and Israeli actions as self defense.

Israel/Palestine is a main mid east issue. One that Obama fails miserably at.
The stakes have always been high. Now is the best time to fight for principles.

You don't just put them on hold. Otherwise what are you? Otherwise you are just adding to the problem. Which is a system that does not seem to allow real change, that's what they want.

FiveB247x

Many people like to believe there's huge difference between the Dems and Reps when it comes to Foreign policy but in practice it's not much. All the Dems get googly eyed from thoughts of the Clinton years but ignore all the poor things he did while in office: ignoring Rwanda, NAFTA, the WTO, constant bombing of Iraq as well as the blockade which led to hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, ignoring Bin Laden and al Queda (even after the embassy bombings and first WTC attack), amongst many others. But the economy was doing ok, so therefore it was a wonderful period to revel in? Bunch of hypocrites the Dems are! Vote for Obama, we’ll have a new name and face, but the results will remain the same. The difference amounts to choosing between being shot to death quickly or stabbed to death slowly - that's what the lessor of two evils amounts too in many instances.

Kann wrote:

Strongly disagree with the first part of your argument. The US is not a pimple, there are far too important things at stake (I'm looking at the middle east here) and a strong but intelligent US president is now very very important for the rest of the world (I'm looking at Bush here).
However this part :

is right on. I don't know how it's done in the US but unfortunately from what I saw here, here is how this goes :
step 1 : the moderate left doesn't win the election because it lost too many voices on it's 3rd party left fringe.
step 2 : After the election there's a little bit of blame placed on everyone, the moderate does a mea culpa and swears next time they'll listen to these voices and make their programs accordingly.
step 3 : 5 years of shitty politics later everyone is tired and wants change, the moderate left thinks that things are so bad they can come back with a center-left program.
step 4 : repeat step 1.
This has been going on for 15 years here. It's kind of depressing, so in the end I've become an advocate of "anything for a change" because some right-wing presidents are way too bad for the country to put your principles first.

MrBrian

decides2dream wrote:

i think they've already gotten *worse*...the past 8 years is testament to that imho. i am not voting for the 'dems' i am voting for a candidate, as i do every time i vote. i don't vote for parties, i vote for people. and yes, i will be voting obama. i DO think he will be an effective president and exactly what we need as a country, and for the the rest of the world as well. obviously you disagree, and that's cool too. i personally hope more americans feel and think as i do this election, but we shall see soon enough.

That is fair enough. But I must ask you, if Obama was say running on an independent ticket in this election in this time...and someone else was running for the dems. You would still vote for Obama?

decides2dream

MrBrian wrote:

That is fair enough. But I must ask you, if Obama was say running on an independent ticket in this election in this time...and someone else was running for the dems. You would still vote for Obama?

obviously it would depend on who this other candidate was and if i thought he/she had better ideas, policies, etc. but for the sake of arguement, yes. as i said, i do not vote for parties. throughtout my own voter history i have never exclusively voted for one party only, and i have voted for 3rd parties as well. it does come down to the candidate and what he/she has to offer.

FiveB247x

The obvious answer for most is no. Which goes back to my point, people end up basing their vote on what others think and make "popular" or "electable", not someone they truly believe in or stand by their policies.

MrBrian wrote:

That is fair enough. But I must ask you, if Obama was say running on an independent ticket in this election in this time...and someone else was running for the dems. You would still vote for Obama?

Speakers

MrBrian wrote:

If he wins, things would get worse? Probably? Maybe? Possibly? If Obama wins? Things may improve just a touch? Probably? Maybe? Possibly? Now that seems to be the thinking of many Americans, That seems to be enough for many Americans. They are so tired, even a touch of 'change' is enough.

Even people who would voted 3rd parties in previous elections are voting for Obama. Now I can understand that thinking. But I have an issue with it, you see if Obama wins, things wont change as much as they should, we hear Obama speak, we see the way he votes. He simply is not what the country needs. He is a guy on a sinking ship saying "I hope we don't sink", fact is, the ships still going to sink. All the hope in the world will not change that fact. So I say, let it sink. Only let is sink faster, let's get McCain in office.

At the end of the day, (and I'm sure most will agree) Obama is not that big of a change, not enough change would be more accurate. Maybe it's time for America to really go under, like a pimple being popped, You get the puss, then blood, then the healing. Obama and many of is supporters don't want to empty that pimple out, they just want to put a band aid on it. They have no heart to finish the job.

So maybe A McCain win will be better in the long run than an Obama win. I feel this way because maybe things in America need to get even worse, I mean really really really bad. Then a 3rd party candidate will have more of a chance. The masses will be so upset, they will be demanding real change. They will not except diet versions of anything. Or at the very least force the dems to take on the issues and policies of a Nader or a Ron Paul, not continue more to the right as it seems they are doing in many ways.

Right now people are so tired of the last 8 years, they are not demanding anything on Obama. Maybe if things get even worse (and apparently multiple wars, people losing jobs and whatever else is not bad enough) things will get better, the people will wake up?

Change does not happen overnight, Maybe more people in third world countries need to die? Maybe more people need to lose their jobs? Maybe these things need to happen for real change to occur.
Maybe a time will come when a candidate does not have to bow down towards Israel, maybe a time will come when a candidate will not have to speak all tough to get elected.

I'm sorry but voting for Obama is not the solution. It's just a true....Wasted Vote.
----

Now I would also like to add that in good conscience I can't say vote for McCain, but I can say that voting for a 3rd party is a better option, you are voting for the best candidate. end of story. Not the one that just has a chance to win. Yes, let's take votes away from Obama. Maybe one day the dems will see that they are not doing enough to earn votes. They are not truly speaking to the people.

Or are they?

You are essentially calling for a revolution and we know from history that revolutions result in small changes over the long haul (because there is always a counter-revolution) The only difference between taking small steps peacefully and making small steps from a revolution are that A LOT fewer people die in the process.

I see what you are saying, but democracies don't set themselves up for that kind of change by definition.

josevolution

hey MR BRIAN if the USA is a pimple than your the ass that it's on ....had to ..

MrBrian

Speakers wrote:

You are essentially calling for a revolution and we know from history that revolutions result in small changes over the long haul (because there is always a counter-revolution) The only difference between taking small steps peacefully and making small steps from a revolution are that A LOT fewer people die in the process.

I see what you are saying, but democracies don't set themselves up for that kind of change by definition.

Do you believe that Obama and his policies are really small peaceful steps forward? You hear his words on Israel right? And that's simply one of the greater issues the world faces. He is way off on them.

I think you mean corrupt democracies? don't set themselves up for that kind of change.

I don't know, I just feel that now is the best time to fight. Via the ballot. Now is the best chance we have. Maybe an Obama government will just put America back in that bubble, you know the clinton bubble. Everythings good at home.

Uncle Leo

FiveB247x wrote:

So you're saying: in our nation, things have to get worse before they get better. McCain in the long run is worse than Obama because Obama isn't enough of a legitimate change to fix our problems. Therefore vote to make things worse which will rattle people up to fix things for the long term.

I don't agree but understand where you're coming from.

Like a junkie has to hit rock bottom.

MrBrian

josevolution wrote:

hey MR BRIAN if the USA is a pimple than your the ass that it's on ....had to ..

You had to??? what...sound like an idiot?
---

You are obvioulsy too stupid to understand the meaning behind the pimple thing. But I dont expect much from you. I've read some of your posts before. But please try and stick to the thread, let's see what you have.

josevolution

MrBrian wrote:

You had to??? what...sound like an idiot?
---

You are obvioulsy too stupid to understand the meaning behind the pimple thing. But I dont expect much from you. I've read some of your posts before.

yeah yeah yeah just like you ..

MrBrian

josevolution wrote:

yeah yeah yeah just like you ..

Fine. now to the thread little grasshopper.

Speakers

MrBrian wrote:

Do you believe that Obama and his policies are really small peaceful steps forward? You hear his words on Israel right? And that's simply one of the greater issues the world faces. He is way off on them.

I think you mean corrupt democracies? don't set themselves up for that kind of change.

I don't know, I just feel that now is the best time to fight. Via the ballot. Now is the best chance we have. Maybe an Obama government will just put America back in that bubble, you know the clinton bubble. Everythings good at home.

How are Obama's policies regarding Israel different from McCain's? And it isn't that big of an issue either. If they go to war and destroy themselves it will mark the second coming of Jesus right? The whole world will be destroyed and we wouldn't know the difference.

FiveB247x

But in this arena, there is no "bottom". Think in the past decade all the terrible things that have occured... illegal wars and policies which break the constitution, 9-11 and other disasters in which citizens were ignored and left to suffer the consequences of sometimes potentially averted disasters. And yet things continue.. in fact, since, the same administration was re-elected! There's no real "bottom" and waiting for it would just make things that much worse.

Uncle Leo wrote:

Like a junkie has to hit rock bottom.

MrBrian

FiveB247x wrote:

But in this arena, there is no "bottom". Think in the past decade all the terrible things that have occured... illegal wars and policies which break the constitution, 9-11 and other disasters in which citizens were ignored and left to suffer the consequences of sometimes potentially averted disasters. And yet things continue.. in fact, since, the same administration was re-elected! There's no real "bottom" and waiting for it would just make things that much worse.

hmmm, interesting. a bottomless pit? I hope not!

But let's look at history, many countries have shown that no matter how bad something gets, things can get worse and do tend to reach a bottom.

I don't think America is at the bottom yet and I do believe their is a bottom.

Like I tried to say in my op, it's hard to imagine that things could really get worse, but maybe the next step is the people. The people need to change.
Many americans understand that things are bad now, but do not understand why things are so bad. make sense?

Many Americans still have this pride 'we are the greatest country on earth', maybe that needs to stop, Americans need to see what exactly causes the problems. and I know it can happen, America has enough very smart people.

Speakers

MrBrian wrote:

Many americans understand that things are bad now, but do not understand why things are so bad. make sense?

Um. people know why things are so bad. George Bush. Thats why many are voting for the other party.

decides2dream

MrBrian wrote:

hmmm, interesting. a bottomless pit? I hope not!

But let's look at history, many countries have shown that no matter how bad something gets, things can get worse and do tend to reach a bottom.

I don't think America is at the bottom yet and I do believe their is a bottom.

Like I tried to say in my op, it's hard to imagine that things could really get worse, but maybe the next step is the people. The people need to change.
Many americans understand that things are bad now, but do not understand why things are so bad. make sense?

Many Americans still have this pride 'we are the greatest country on earth', maybe that needs to stop, Americans need to see what exactly causes the problems. and I know it can happen, America has enough very smart people.

THIS i completely agree with. patriotism has become this truly warped view, for us or against us, we are supreme rules of the planet, etc. i don't truly understand how it all came into being. overall i see nothing wrong with pride of place, but it's like the rivalry between sports teams and the like...it just goes too far! one needs to see where they live in proper perspective and context, with a critical eye...even still with love in their heart. we will not change or grow for the better otherwise. and the whole 'greatest country on earth' is simply ridiculous. pride and love of your home does not have to come at the cost of common sense.

MrBrian

Speakers wrote:

Um. people know why things are so bad. George Bush. Thats why many are voting for the other party.

I don't think it's right to blame W for everthing, are the dems not accountable at all? They stood silent during the Bush years. They were scared of being labled un patriotic. Even the dem vp Biden supported the war.

FiveB247x

In my opinion, the longer it goes on, the more we see people get complacent. I think the things you're descibing are more similar to a revolution of some Orwellian sense... and I don't see anything in our nation that remotely resembles us headed towards that. In fact, politically, or policies have become more radical while people's responses to them via voting and response has been pretty dosile.

MrBrian wrote:

hmmm, interesting. a bottomless pit? I hope not!

But let's look at history, many countries have shown that no matter how bad something gets, things can get worse and do tend to reach a bottom.

I don't think America is at the bottom yet and I do believe their is a bottom.

Like I tried to say in my op, it's hard to imagine that things could really get worse, but maybe the next step is the people. The people need to change.
Many americans understand that things are bad now, but do not understand why things are so bad. make sense?

Many Americans still have this pride 'we are the greatest country on earth', maybe that needs to stop, Americans need to see what exactly causes the problems. and I know it can happen, America has enough very smart people.

MrBrian

So then the balance truly does hang with the people. It's up to them. It's what they choose.

Wobbie

America Needs a McCain/Palin Presidency...

..."like I need a hole in my head." - Cracker: Teen Angst

MrBrian

imalive wrote:

America Needs a McCain/Palin Presidency...

..."like I need a hole in my head." - Cracker: Teen Angst

advocātus diabolī

Well if that hole helps relieve the swelling in your brain, then yes. You need that hole. and I think Americas brain is swelling due to the trauma of the last 8 years. Then again that may Negate my op but i'm just saying

DOSW

Uncle Leo wrote:

Like a junkie has to hit rock bottom.

The thing is, if America hits "rock bottom" the entire world would go to hell. We can't let that happen.

If you "popped the pimple" that we're in right now, it wouldn't heal... it would get infected and we'd all get very, very sick.