So Obama will seek council from Powell

MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
Obama said that he will seek council from Colin Powell if he (Obama) is elected President.

Of course this comes after Powell sadi that he backs Obama.

This is a bit strange right? The man of Change will look towards the man who sold the American people on the Iraq war for advice.

That's good to know,
Post edited by Unknown User on

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  • MrBrian wrote:
    Obama said that he will seek council from Colin Powell if he (Obama) is elected President.

    Of course this comes after Powell sadi that he backs Obama.

    This is a bit strange right? The man of Change will look towards the man who sold the American people on the Iraq war for advice.

    That's good to know,

    Nah, I think Powell's conscience came to bearing the problems and smokescreens of the war not long after it started. He stood up and bowed out.
    Managed to maintain some credibility.
    But I'm not going to argue it one way or another...just sayin
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,337
    well at least his not saying he will get advice from the man upstairs yet :) ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    I love how Powell is somehow the only good guy in/previously in the Bush administration. Its cool to trust Powell, and concede the possibility that maybe the man has changed his mind for the right reasons, but every other Republican is a hopeless case.
  • We'll see how much Powell has "bowed out" seeing as he has just magically reappeared again.

    I'm going to go out on a limb, perhaps a twig, that the crisis Biden was referring to was in fact a strike on Iran.

    That's the early picture I'm seeing.
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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    I love how Powell is somehow the only good guy in/previously in the Bush administration. Its cool to trust Powell, and concede the possibility that maybe the man has changed his mind for the right reasons, but every other Republican is a hopeless case.

    Right, and many dems love him all of a sudden because he's backing Obama. Then comes out the good words for powell "he's a great American, smart, respected"

    The man sold a bad war.

    Has he changed? Maybe, I dunno. But he has not done enough to fix what he helped cause.
  • Nah, I think Powell's conscience came to bearing the problems and smokescreens of the war not long after it started. He stood up and bowed out.
    Managed to maintain some credibility.
    But I'm not going to argue it one way or another...just sayin

    not a big point, but i dont think it was as honorable as you remember it. powell didnt stand up and bow out gracefully. he was forced out. he's the "you break it, you buy it guy" meaning we broke iraq, we need to stay in there as long as it takes to fix it. i know we'll in talks now to pull out of iraq, but having powell as an advisor probably shouldnt sit well with the anti-war obama supporters.
  • he's conflicted. Its clear to me, he was most likely one of those sane individuals in the closed door meetings prior to the war starting that told bush "this is absurd we cant and shouldnt go to war". Yet he still sold us a pack of lies that resulted in war and death. He has major blood on his hands.

    yet he also has even back in time, back long ago been an advocate for not going to war. Read "the powell doctrine" notes. Had bush followed those guidelines, the war wouldnt have occured. We wouldnt be in this mess.

    One wonders if Powell mentioned this to Bush?

    Obama wants to stay the course in afghanistan. So whether he seeks powell's advice or not, thats the course of action obama will take.
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    MrBrian wrote:
    This is a bit strange right? The man of Change will look towards the man who sold the American people on the Iraq war for advice.

    That's good to know,

    That's not really true. Powell was actually one of the few pushing for diplomacy. It wasn't Powell who was responsible for the pre-Iraq lies like WMDs or the "smoking gun" theory or the aluminum tube/uranium enrichment claims. It was more Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Tenet who were making the case for war. Powell was chosen to read the speech making the case for war to the U.N. Why? Because he was the most credible figure at the time. Powell was assured by George Tenet (the CIA director sitting directly behind him during the speech) that the information in the speech was factual. Most of the info in the speech was bad intelligence from the CIA, not from Powell or his State Department. There's a great Frontline documentary called "Bush's War" that covers it. Part one chapter 14 covers what I just explained.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/
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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    He believed it, he sold it to the people and he (like you pretty much said) allowed himself to be used.

    These are bad things, on any level.

    He obvioulsy didnt push hard enough for diplomacy. I know I would not of read that speech. Would you of? What he did was wrong, part blame must be put on himself. It's not like someone had a gun to his head making him read that speech.

    ah, the choices we make.
  • AusticmanAusticman Posts: 1,327
    MrBrian wrote:
    Obama said that he will seek council from Colin Powell if he (Obama) is elected President.

    Of course this comes after Powell sadi that he backs Obama.

    This is a bit strange right? The man of Change will look towards the man who sold the American people on the Iraq war for advice.

    That's good to know,

    Whether he goes public with or not I believe he will. He'll at least hear him out. Whether he takes any of that advice is a different story.
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  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    MrBrian wrote:
    Right, and many dems love him all of a sudden because he's backing Obama. Then comes out the good words for powell "he's a great American, smart, respected"

    The man sold a bad war.

    Has he changed? Maybe, I dunno. But he has not done enough to fix what he helped cause.
    See i'm seeing that working the other way. It's interesting to read around some of the articles and comments from people who are pretty outspoken about Powell endorsing obama. Time and time again you read how they had great respect for this man and how much admiration they had for him and now they don't because in their warped little pea brains, they perceive that Powell is supporting obama purely for his skin color.

    The only thing that tells me, is that i'ts them that is focussing on the color of Barack Obama's skin color, not Powell.

    To say that Powell supports Obama just because of his skin color doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. You do realize that Powell himself could have easily been this nations first black president from a conservative platform if he so chose. If he ever had a Black power agenda he could have easily accomplished it. Easily.

    When traditionally blacks overwhelmingly voted Democrat, Powell was a Republican for years. What more is that he rose to become one of the most respected Republicans, until of course he endorsed Obama :rolleyes:
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    Who said he supports him just because of his skin colour?
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    MrBrian wrote:
    He believed it, he sold it to the people and he (like you pretty much said) allowed himself to be used.

    These are bad things, on any level.

    He obvioulsy didnt push hard enough for diplomacy. I know I would not of read that speech. Would you of? What he did was wrong, part blame must be put on himself. It's not like someone had a gun to his head making him read that speech.

    ah, the choices we make.

    He believed SOME of it, along with just about everyone else in the administration because that's what the CIA intelligence was saying. You can't fault him for that. It's not his fault it was bad info. I didn't say he allowed himself to be used at all. Nobody had a gun to his head, but he worked for the president. If it was me yea I would have done my job just like you probably would have. He did push very hard for diplomacy but he was outnumbered by Cheney, Tenet, Rumsfeld, and others. It's not the choices he made, it was the president's choice for him to read the speech because HE WAS THE MOST CREDIBLE FIGURE in the admin. His only other alternative was to resign which to him was giving up so he didn't. Don't take my word for it, just watch the Frontline special. You're saying he sold the war to the people and that's wrong. He read a speech written mainly by the vice president's office. I don't care whether you believe it or not, I'm just stating facts thats all.

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/

    part one chapter 14 backs up the facts
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  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    MrBrian wrote:
    Who said he supports him just because of his skin colour?

    a lot of people on this forum
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  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    MrBrian wrote:
    Who said he supports him just because of his skin colour?
    I wasn't saying you did. But it's been mentioned numerous times the last few days. Want me to link you up?
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    Here ya go Mr Brian...it's not just me around here arguing this point...
    I remember why I feel some empathy to Powell now, it was the Frontline episode Bush's War.
    I was under the impression that the respected retired military GENERAL Colin Powell was lied to and set up, by the sucking kiss ass George Tenet, then director of the CIA,, to support the
    WMD bullshit aluminum tube thing in front of the entire UN!
    Poor Bastard, all those years of service and look how his country thanks him!

    Rumsfeld and Tenet are the real cunts in this story!
    What I am trying to articulate is that maybe the lines were BLURRED for Powell, you know from "taking orders" then to having to "be THEE White House foreign policy representative".
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  • TDMize15TDMize15 Posts: 166
    I posted this in another thread... but Powell's favorability rating is at 80%...

    80%...

    Yet most people here speak negatively of him.

    Just interesting to see that the 20% of our population apparently posts on PJ boards :)
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  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    I posted this in another thread... but Powell's favorability rating is at 80%...

    80%...

    Yet most people here speak negatively of him.

    Just interesting to see that the 20% of our population apparently posts on PJ boards :)

    It's just that there are a lot of uninformed people here that think Colin Powell is responsible for the lies we were told as the reasoning for invading Iraq. He read a speech he didn't write in front of the U.N. so most people think he made up all those lies which were in the speech, which he didn't. The reason he read the speech goes to your point about 80%. Most people look at Powell as credible, certainly the most credible in the Bush admin at the time so Bush had him present the speech to the U.N. instead of say...Negroponte our U.N. ambassador at the time.
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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    I don't think you quite understand my point. Did he write the speech or not? That's not the issue. The issue is simply, he allowed himself to be used, he was stupid enough to fall for it/part of it.

    Would any of you guys stand up infront of the country and spit out that trash? I'm sorry but it's just an excuse, 'he was lied too' yeah, most of the planet didnt fall for it.
  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    MrBrian wrote:
    I don't think you quite understand my point. Did he write the speech or not? That's not the issue. The issue is simply, he allowed himself to be used, he was stupid enough to fall for it/part of it.

    Would any of you guys stand up infront of the country and spit out that trash? I'm sorry but it's just an excuse, 'he was lied too' yeah, most of the planet didnt fall for it.

    Ok well you see it that way, the facts don't really support that though. Powell worked for Bush, he did his job, which was to read a speech giving reasons why we should go to war with Iraq. He didn't make those reasons up, they were the result of faulty intelligence by the CIA and others, NOT Powell. It's like the old saying "Don't shoot the messenger". Knowing what we know now it's easy for us to sit here in retrospect and say "yea I wouldn't have fallen for that BS." I won't assume what the planet knew, but many people were fooled and lied to, in the admin, politicians, and the people. That's not an excuse, just fact. Other people on this board know the exact same thing, I even pointed it out in my last few posts. That's the last I'll say about it.
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  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,672
    So now he was just a messenger? So what does it matter if he's so highly respect (based on views and actions) He's just saying what someone else wants.

    But here, think of this. You are at a car dealership, the sales guy gives you this pitch, 'this car get's 50mpg, it's the best car ever!, you must buy it'

    So you buy the car, after a few day's you see that the car get's 10 mpg, it's not the best car ever and whatever else. Now do you blame the car sales persosn? I mean he did not build the car like powell did not write his speech, so no blame goes to the person selling the car to you? He was just doing his job, selling bullshit to you.

    Now you see, I would blame the sales person, I would also blame the company (or government)

    I would lose respect for the sales person, would you not?

    Powell used his respect, Powell used the trust people had in him to sell the American people a poorly built American car. One that was bound to break down.
  • pateljampateljam Posts: 340
    MrBrian wrote:
    So now he was just a messenger? So what does it matter if he's so highly respect (based on views and actions) He's just saying what someone else wants.

    But here, think of this. You are at a car dealership, the sales guy gives you this pitch, 'this car get's 50mpg, it's the best car ever!, you must buy it'

    So you buy the car, after a few day's you see that the car get's 10 mpg, it's not the best car ever and whatever else. Now do you blame the car sales persosn? I mean he did not build the car like powell did not write his speech, so no blame goes to the person selling the car to you? He was just doing his job, selling bullshit to you.

    Now you see, I would blame the sales person, I would also blame the company (or government)

    I would lose respect for the sales person, would you not?

    Powell used his respect, Powell used the trust people had in him to sell the American people a poorly built American car. One that was bound to break down.

    Yes and I as I have said on other posts. Why hasn't Powell stood up and said he was lied to. Who the hell is he protecting. It seems that now Obama has the prefect fall guy to sell a bullshit war in Iran to the world now...
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,500
    MrBrian wrote:
    Obama said that he will seek council from Colin Powell if he (Obama) is elected President.

    Of course this comes after Powell sadi that he backs Obama.

    This is a bit strange right? The man of Change will look towards the man who sold the American people on the Iraq war for advice.

    That's good to know,


    I think you're selling Powell short. I think he has changed some due to his expereinces. I think he's a good choice to seek counsel from.
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  • pateljampateljam Posts: 340
    I think you're selling Powell short. I think he has changed some due to his expereinces. I think he's a good choice to seek counsel from.

    Yeah I guess the death of over 4000 soliders will change a person...
    Sorry its a little too late. He should have stood up a long time ago... He might have saved lives...
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  • TDMize15TDMize15 Posts: 166
    MrBrian wrote:
    So now he was just a messenger? So what does it matter if he's so highly respect (based on views and actions) He's just saying what someone else wants.

    But here, think of this. You are at a car dealership, the sales guy gives you this pitch, 'this car get's 50mpg, it's the best car ever!, you must buy it'

    So you buy the car, after a few day's you see that the car get's 10 mpg, it's not the best car ever and whatever else. Now do you blame the car sales persosn? I mean he did not build the car like powell did not write his speech, so no blame goes to the person selling the car to you? He was just doing his job, selling bullshit to you.

    Now you see, I would blame the sales person, I would also blame the company (or government)

    I would lose respect for the sales person, would you not?

    Powell used his respect, Powell used the trust people had in him to sell the American people a poorly built American car. One that was bound to break down.

    If the salesperson had evidence and proof from the car company and Car and Driver and the management that the car got 50 mpg... then this analogy would work.

    Powell thought what he was saying was truth... when the CIA and the president give you information, you assume it's the truth.
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  • fugawzifugawzi Posts: 879
    YES he was a messenger, why is that so hard to understand? You start to lose a little credibility when you compare the lies we were told about Iraq to a car dealer lying about MPG. Lies that Colin Powell did not create but rather were created by the CIA, Cheney's office and others. I guess that's too hard for some to comprehend. Apparently some think Powell was in the CIA. They aren't aware he worked in the State Dept.

    His credibility is very relevant. That's why he was selected to read the speech. Why didn't our ambassador to the U.N. read the speech? Why didn't the president or vice pres or secretary of defense or national security adviser read the speech? They knew Powell was the right choice because of his support by the people. They used him, he didn't allow himself to be used. Had he written the speech, and created the lies I would be agreeing with you but he didn't. I guess he should have rubbed his crystal ball and not read the speech because he somehow knew they were lies even though the CIA director assured him everything was accurate. I said I wasn't gonna say anymore on this subject but I can't help it even though it's useless some people will believe what they want to believe despite the FACTS.
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