actually, Nader has been one of the only candidates who has mentioned reparations to the Iraqi people, reconstructing their infrastructure, etc... meanwhile, all other candidates are very vague on what they plan to do for the Iraqi people specifically. Nader, above all, knows the U.S. is responsible.
Where's this money coming from? Like most of Nader Ideals he has no plan on how to get funding or approval from Congress.
That's why its easy for him to make all the claims he does. He has no chance of winning and he knows it so he can promise the moon and ever get called out on it.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
It's this exact kind of condescending arrogance that is such a turnoff for me for Nader, his campaign and his supporters. People have been ably stating why they will vote for Obama, and to you they are not merely voters who disagree; they are complacent sheep. No offense intended, but get over yourself; the people who have decided to vote for Obama have done so coherently and with purpose.
And I don't know where you get your facts from, but Obama has written every major speech of this campaign that he has given and has a hand in writing every one of his 'stump' speeches. Looks like we don't have to "demand" that of him because he's got it covered.
Exactly. Just because you are a Nader supporter doesn't mean we are all ignorant sheep.
Maybe we aren't as far left as you. Maybe we have different issues that matter to us.
Maybe we have different opinions on how to get this country back.
We will demand a lot from him once hes President but right now hes campaigning and I'm not naive. You have to play the game to win it and Obama has to seem tough enough to Middle America or he will get creamed by McCain.
I would rather him talk tough now and win then to stick to his ideals and lose like Nader does every year.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Nader has no plans that go beyond high ideals. There's no compromise to his platform. Nader reforms are just plain silly. He's a consumer advocacy lobbyist therefore most of his ideas are not grounded in reality.
Where's this money coming from? Like most of Nader Ideals he has no plan on how to get funding or approval from Congress.
That's why its easy for him to make all the claims he does. He has no chance of winning and he knows it so he can promise the moon and ever get called out on it.
Nader has consistently called for a citizen-led Congress "watch dog" system that will hold them responsible for bringing about reforms that the majority of Americans want: like single-payer health care and a crackdown on corporate crime.
After appealing to congress for the past 8 years, warning them of the upcoming bank crisis, we are now dealing with the consequences of their ignoring of said warnings. Nader is now urging Henry Paulson to ensure his office curbs the damage still happening and making sure the CEOs of Fanny and Freddie aren't making off with unjustly gross salaries while we, the taxpayers, pay for their screw-up.
Using the word "methinks" in your message board posts doesn't make you look smart.
Where's this money coming from? Like most of Nader Ideals he has no plan on how to get funding or approval from Congress.
That's why its easy for him to make all the claims he does. He has no chance of winning and he knows it so he can promise the moon and ever get called out on it.
If we have money to fund more than one war at a time, and give Israel billions in aid, then we certainly have money to pay reparations to people we dispossessed and for people we killed, as well as reconstruction.
No, Obama is not different enough. What exactly don't you get? The problem is that people like you are happy with that.
You don't really want big change, just nickels and dimes.
I have said enough times that Obama would make a better president than McCain, but my worries is that his supporters are not demanding anything from him, not even that he writes his own speeches.
You excuse his mistakes, even if they are in line with Bush!
People like me? Mmm hmm. Cause you know me so well. You have no clue hunny bunny so quit with the assumptions already. One day when you have nothing better to do than read donkey stories, check back through my posting history and you will see i am quite outspoken on why i support obama and i even talk about his policies that i am not happy with...gosh.
Maybe we could just ignore each other. That works for me.
People like me? Mmm hmm. Cause you know me so well. You have no clue hunny bunny so quit with the assumptions already. One day when you have nothing better to do than read donkey stories, check back through my posting history and you will see i am quite outspoken on why i support obama and i even talk about his policies that i am not happy with...gosh.
Maybe we could just ignore each other. That works for me.
I'm sorry. I understand your point, trust me. But you don't get mine. I don't want to ignore you at all. Infact it's really good that you are passionate about all this. Infact that makes me happy! and I respect you as a poster even more. So it's all good, no worries.
---
Now, would you like to see Obama debate Nader? Do you think it would be good for american politics?
I'm sorry. I understand your point, trust me. But you don't get mine. I don't want to ignore you at all. Infact it's really good that you are passionate about all this. Infact that makes me happy! and I respect you as a poster even more. So it's all good, no worries.
---
Now, would you like to see Obama debate Nader? Do you think it would be good for american politics?
I'd love to see Nader on the spot. He says all the right things, and he talks about what we should do, but i honestly don't think he has any plan as to how he would follow through with what he is saying. Anyone can come out and say 'we should do this', but i want to know how he would. The worst thing about Ralph Nader is that he has become irrelevant. He has done nothing to create a viable political alternative to the GOP and Dems, nor to build support for his positions among the electorate. Anyone could have predicted his position on the war, and nobody cared, because he has no effective base of support. His is simply a vanity campaign,his positions on the issues, no matter how good they sound, are useless because he has done nothing to achieve the power to implement them. After this news cycle he will be ignored, and he will get his usual small percent in the general election. The saddest thing is that, instead of being remembered for his great consumer advocacy, history will recall him as the guy who made the 2000 and 2004 presidential races close enough to steal.
If they do get to debate then maybe obama can also ask Nader exactly what he meant when he accused obama of 'talking white'. I lost so much respect for him after that.
I used to give the benefit of the doubt to Nader, and believed his intention of entering the election was primarily an attempt to structurally change the electoral process from a two-party system to a multi-candidate type of system.
The problem with Nader, and what makes it impossible to take his candidacy seriously, is that he himself puts forth the image that he just wants attention for being a spoiler rather than a serious candidate. He does this because, in the time between one election and the next, just what exactly does he do that shows he's a serious candidate? We never hear a peep from him; he's not out making headlines in any way (not even in the way we know him best, and that's consumer protection). If he's out there inspiring anyone, taking on a cause, why don't we hear about it? He says the media fucks him over, there are other ways to get your voice heard. If he's doing these things, then he's not drawing any attention to them in the same way he can draw attention to himself simply by announcing that he's yet again running for president. For all the accolades he get's for his progressive views, what good are they if he doesn't even make them known? He does nothing for the progressive cause as far as I can see, and instead works against it with these so-called presidential bids. And maybe that's his real failing, in not being able to gain himself any publicity unless he's making himself a last minute candidate for president.
I don't understand why any Obama supporter would complain about Nader... several of Obama's main "change" points are the same exact that Nader has run on... end of corporate welfare, adjust the healthcare system and many others.
I also appreciate how everyone promotes democracy - until it effects their party/candidate in some poor manner... ie 3rd party is "stealing votes".
The Dems and Reps both go out of their way (above and beyond) to stop 3rd parties from growing or getting on the ballot. Sad indeed.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Where's this money coming from? Like most of Nader Ideals he has no plan on how to get funding or approval from Congress.
That's why its easy for him to make all the claims he does. He has no chance of winning and he knows it so he can promise the moon and ever get called out on it.
that's what gets me about this.
i would love for a nader supporter to explain to me just exactly how nader will accomplish his goals as president.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
You think nader does not know that he can't win?...One major thing he is trying to do is bring issues to the table, Nader is trying to open up american politics.
Look at Obama, and i'll say it again. He does not even touch the reasons people hate america. well not the true reasons. He blames it on muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion as being the main reason for the hate. They hate freedom? peace? really?
He say's that iran is a threat, do you supporters really share his view that Iran is one of the major threats in the world?
You think nader does not know that he can't win?...One major thing he is trying to do is bring issues to the table, Nader is trying to open up american politics.
Look at Obama, and i'll say it again. He does not even touch the reasons people hate america. well not the true reasons. He blames it on muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion as being the main reason for the hate. They hate freedom? peace? really?
He say's that iran is a threat, do you supporters really share his view that Iran is one of the major threats in the world?
I think you've skewwed what I've heard ... I don't have quotes though ...
I think Obama's position is that "muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion" ARE the people who hate America .. that's not the reason they hate Americans ...
As for Iran ... wasn't Obama chastised for stating Iran wasn't a serious threat to the US by the Clinton campaign? I know he has said they posed a serious thread to the middle east? (namely Israel). Tough to deny that if Iran developed nuclear weapon capability, the threat to Israel would be immense.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I think you've skewwed what I've heard ... I don't have quotes though ...
I think Obama's position is that "muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion" ARE the people who hate America .. that's not the reason they hate Americans ...
As for Iran ... wasn't Obama chastised for stating Iran wasn't a serious threat to the US by the Clinton campaign? I know he has said they posed a serious thread to the middle east? (namely Israel). Tough to deny that if Iran developed nuclear weapon capability, the threat to Israel would be immense.
Point I guess is that Obama refuses to speak about the reasons why people hate America. He does not touch the many injustices that America has caused that has created these major problems.
Also, even if Iran had a nuke, does anyone really think they would use it on Israel? I mean and go ahead and kill all the palestinians along with them.
Now as far as Israel goes, here is another thing. Israel is a threat, they are constantly breaking international law, why is Obama so silent about it? Yet he is so vocal about everything else? He was quick to go after Russia but didnt speak about the airbases or who really started that conflict.
Point I guess is that Obama refuses to speak about the reasons why people hate America. He does not touch the many injustices that America has caused that has created these major problems.
Also, even if Iran had a nuke, does anyone really think they would use it on Israel? I mean and go ahead and kill all the palestinians along with them.
Now as far as Israel goes, here is another thing. Israel is a threat, they are constantly breaking international law, why is Obama so silent about it? Yet he is so vocal about everything else? He was quick to go after Russia but didnt speak about the airbases or who really started that conflict.
Kinda see my point?
I think quite a few of us on this board, on all sides, are none too thrilled with Israel ... sadly, I think it's an issue D's and R's have decided to ignore ... but, yeah, the more I read, the more I'm disgusted. You cannot solely pin that on Obama though.
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
What does Nader do between election cycles? The same thing he's done since the '60s: trying to appeal to Congress and reporting major problems with our democracy and citizen protection. The difference is now Congress won't see him. They won't let him in because now more than ever they are bought and indebted to the corporations in which they own stock or sit on the board of directors. Aside from his votenader.org website, nader.org shows all of the open letters he sends to officials in Washington pleading for change. But in this day and age when neither major party wants to hear a message of change that will jeopardize their special interests, Nader is ignored.
You're complaint that he's no longer heard reveals a lack of understanding at just how much in the last 35 years Congress has sold out the people in favor of special interests and just proves the crux of Nader's message: real dissent is silenced in order to maintain the corporate-dominated status quo. We need more voices than what the two corporate-owned parties are giving us.
When he can't get congressional hearings, what other recourse does he have to try and institute change than the electoral process?
And if you read his literature, he has very detailed solutions to our economic woes. Check out the aforementioned websites. And again, what has Obama and McCain illustrated as their great plans for change, other than throwing that word around like it's some special password to get into the White House?
I'd love to see Nader on the spot. He says all the right things, and he talks about what we should do, but i honestly don't think he has any plan as to how he would follow through with what he is saying. Anyone can come out and say 'we should do this', but i want to know how he would. The worst thing about Ralph Nader is that he has become irrelevant. He has done nothing to create a viable political alternative to the GOP and Dems, nor to build support for his positions among the electorate. Anyone could have predicted his position on the war, and nobody cared, because he has no effective base of support. His is simply a vanity campaign,his positions on the issues, no matter how good they sound, are useless because he has done nothing to achieve the power to implement them. After this news cycle he will be ignored, and he will get his usual small percent in the general election. The saddest thing is that, instead of being remembered for his great consumer advocacy, history will recall him as the guy who made the 2000 and 2004 presidential races close enough to steal.
If they do get to debate then maybe obama can also ask Nader exactly what he meant when he accused obama of 'talking white'. I lost so much respect for him after that.
I used to give the benefit of the doubt to Nader, and believed his intention of entering the election was primarily an attempt to structurally change the electoral process from a two-party system to a multi-candidate type of system.
The problem with Nader, and what makes it impossible to take his candidacy seriously, is that he himself puts forth the image that he just wants attention for being a spoiler rather than a serious candidate. He does this because, in the time between one election and the next, just what exactly does he do that shows he's a serious candidate? We never hear a peep from him; he's not out making headlines in any way (not even in the way we know him best, and that's consumer protection). If he's out there inspiring anyone, taking on a cause, why don't we hear about it? He says the media fucks him over, there are other ways to get your voice heard. If he's doing these things, then he's not drawing any attention to them in the same way he can draw attention to himself simply by announcing that he's yet again running for president. For all the accolades he get's for his progressive views, what good are they if he doesn't even make them known? He does nothing for the progressive cause as far as I can see, and instead works against it with these so-called presidential bids. And maybe that's his real failing, in not being able to gain himself any publicity unless he's making himself a last minute candidate for president.
Using the word "methinks" in your message board posts doesn't make you look smart.
I think quite a few of us on this board, on all sides, are none too thrilled with Israel ... sadly, I think it's an issue D's and R's have decided to ignore ... but, yeah, the more I read, the more I'm disgusted. You cannot solely pin that on Obama though.
Of course you can't solely pin it on Obama. But why pretend he isn't complicit at the ballot box? Why are the majority of progressives not willing to take their candidate to task for this?
Using the word "methinks" in your message board posts doesn't make you look smart.
Comments
Where's this money coming from? Like most of Nader Ideals he has no plan on how to get funding or approval from Congress.
That's why its easy for him to make all the claims he does. He has no chance of winning and he knows it so he can promise the moon and ever get called out on it.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Exactly. Just because you are a Nader supporter doesn't mean we are all ignorant sheep.
Maybe we aren't as far left as you. Maybe we have different issues that matter to us.
Maybe we have different opinions on how to get this country back.
We will demand a lot from him once hes President but right now hes campaigning and I'm not naive. You have to play the game to win it and Obama has to seem tough enough to Middle America or he will get creamed by McCain.
I would rather him talk tough now and win then to stick to his ideals and lose like Nader does every year.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Nader has consistently called for a citizen-led Congress "watch dog" system that will hold them responsible for bringing about reforms that the majority of Americans want: like single-payer health care and a crackdown on corporate crime.
After appealing to congress for the past 8 years, warning them of the upcoming bank crisis, we are now dealing with the consequences of their ignoring of said warnings. Nader is now urging Henry Paulson to ensure his office curbs the damage still happening and making sure the CEOs of Fanny and Freddie aren't making off with unjustly gross salaries while we, the taxpayers, pay for their screw-up.
Maybe we could just ignore each other. That works for me.
I'm sorry. I understand your point, trust me. But you don't get mine. I don't want to ignore you at all. Infact it's really good that you are passionate about all this. Infact that makes me happy! and I respect you as a poster even more. So it's all good, no worries.
---
Now, would you like to see Obama debate Nader? Do you think it would be good for american politics?
If they do get to debate then maybe obama can also ask Nader exactly what he meant when he accused obama of 'talking white'. I lost so much respect for him after that.
I used to give the benefit of the doubt to Nader, and believed his intention of entering the election was primarily an attempt to structurally change the electoral process from a two-party system to a multi-candidate type of system.
The problem with Nader, and what makes it impossible to take his candidacy seriously, is that he himself puts forth the image that he just wants attention for being a spoiler rather than a serious candidate. He does this because, in the time between one election and the next, just what exactly does he do that shows he's a serious candidate? We never hear a peep from him; he's not out making headlines in any way (not even in the way we know him best, and that's consumer protection). If he's out there inspiring anyone, taking on a cause, why don't we hear about it? He says the media fucks him over, there are other ways to get your voice heard. If he's doing these things, then he's not drawing any attention to them in the same way he can draw attention to himself simply by announcing that he's yet again running for president. For all the accolades he get's for his progressive views, what good are they if he doesn't even make them known? He does nothing for the progressive cause as far as I can see, and instead works against it with these so-called presidential bids. And maybe that's his real failing, in not being able to gain himself any publicity unless he's making himself a last minute candidate for president.
no, he is just stroking his ego again
I also appreciate how everyone promotes democracy - until it effects their party/candidate in some poor manner... ie 3rd party is "stealing votes".
The Dems and Reps both go out of their way (above and beyond) to stop 3rd parties from growing or getting on the ballot. Sad indeed.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I dunno, helping to improve the country, advocating for you?
yeah didn't you see the 2 min video of him talking to a parrot?
that guy really knows how to engage people!
cross the river to the eastside
that's what gets me about this.
i would love for a nader supporter to explain to me just exactly how nader will accomplish his goals as president.
cross the river to the eastside
Look at Obama, and i'll say it again. He does not even touch the reasons people hate america. well not the true reasons. He blames it on muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion as being the main reason for the hate. They hate freedom? peace? really?
He say's that iran is a threat, do you supporters really share his view that Iran is one of the major threats in the world?
I think you've skewwed what I've heard ... I don't have quotes though ...
I think Obama's position is that "muslims who have a corrupt view of the religion" ARE the people who hate America .. that's not the reason they hate Americans ...
As for Iran ... wasn't Obama chastised for stating Iran wasn't a serious threat to the US by the Clinton campaign? I know he has said they posed a serious thread to the middle east? (namely Israel). Tough to deny that if Iran developed nuclear weapon capability, the threat to Israel would be immense.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Point I guess is that Obama refuses to speak about the reasons why people hate America. He does not touch the many injustices that America has caused that has created these major problems.
Also, even if Iran had a nuke, does anyone really think they would use it on Israel? I mean and go ahead and kill all the palestinians along with them.
Now as far as Israel goes, here is another thing. Israel is a threat, they are constantly breaking international law, why is Obama so silent about it? Yet he is so vocal about everything else? He was quick to go after Russia but didnt speak about the airbases or who really started that conflict.
Kinda see my point?
I think quite a few of us on this board, on all sides, are none too thrilled with Israel ... sadly, I think it's an issue D's and R's have decided to ignore ... but, yeah, the more I read, the more I'm disgusted. You cannot solely pin that on Obama though.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
You're complaint that he's no longer heard reveals a lack of understanding at just how much in the last 35 years Congress has sold out the people in favor of special interests and just proves the crux of Nader's message: real dissent is silenced in order to maintain the corporate-dominated status quo. We need more voices than what the two corporate-owned parties are giving us.
When he can't get congressional hearings, what other recourse does he have to try and institute change than the electoral process?
And if you read his literature, he has very detailed solutions to our economic woes. Check out the aforementioned websites. And again, what has Obama and McCain illustrated as their great plans for change, other than throwing that word around like it's some special password to get into the White House?
Of course you can't solely pin it on Obama. But why pretend he isn't complicit at the ballot box? Why are the majority of progressives not willing to take their candidate to task for this?