Real Id.

MrBrian

For Immediate Release
May 1, 2007

ALA joins anti-National ID Campaign

WASHINGTON — The American Library Association (ALA) has joined a large and diverse group of 43 organizations to launch a campaign against the first national identification system, REAL ID.

The groups joining in the anti-National ID campaign are concerned about the increased threat of counterfeiting and identity theft, lack of security to protect against unauthorized access to the document's machine readable content, increased cost to taxpayers, diverting of state funds intended for homeland security, increased costs for obtaining a license or state issued ID card, and because the REAL ID would create a false belief that it is secure and unforgeable.

“There are serious privacy and security issues with the REAL ID Act,” said Loriene Roy, ALA President-Elect. “ALA has expressed deep concern about standardized machine-readable driver's licenses and national identification cards because of the potential privacy implications for library users, as well as the increased potential for identity theft for all individuals.”

Under the REAL ID Act, states and federal government would share access to a vast national database that could include images of birth certificates, marriage licenses, divorce papers, and more, including detailed information on the name, date of birth, race, and Social Security Number for more than 240 million individuals, with no requirements or controls on how this database might be used.

The draft regulations to implement the REAL ID Act are open for comment until 5:00 p.m. EDT on May 8, 2007. Please take action by submitting comments against the fundamentally flawed national identification scheme, under Docket No. 2006-0030. To make comments go to http://www.regulations.gov/ or send by fax to the Department of Homeland Security (DHS): 1-866-466-5370. Be sure to include docket number listed above.

The federal government has said the Real ID Act is needed to help fight terrorism. But the Senate committee's chairman, state Sen. Rick Metzger, D-Welches, called it a huge states' rights issue.

"This is the federal government infringing on the sovereignty of the state of Oregon for issues that are traditionally state-mandated," he said. "It is an unfunded and unjustified mandate."

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070430/LEGISLATURE/704300335

Final regulations are scheduled to be released later this year, giving states until May 2008 to comply. On Tuesday, critics accused federal officials of trying to fast-track implementation of the law, which was tucked into a military spending bill in 2005, and asked for a delay in implementation.

State officials want the federal government to provide states with money for the massive undertaking. Valverde said the proposed regulations would add 2.5 million visits to DMV field offices and cost the state $500 million to $700 million over five years to comply.

http://www.privacycoalition.org/stoprealid/

Alex_Coe

According to Rick M, this boils down to Fed'l vs. states rights. Usually, the federal government has power over individual states, but this is not such a case.

...I can't remember the name of the law that gives the fedl govt power over the states (supremacy doctrine or something like that) but I don't think that it gives the fedl govt every power. States like Oregon still have some sovereignty amongst themselves, which Rick Metzgfer is explaining.

Oregon should decide how to ID it's citizens, not the fedl government.

Cosmo

Mark of the Beast.
...
and I don't even believe in all that Mark of the Beast stuff.

sicnevol

this is crap, they want a database with my identity and they can't even keep hackers out of the Pentagon? Yeah thats going to work REALLY WELL> I'm so staying in Japan. This is such bullshit. They don't even have limits on the use of the information???????? What in the Holy hell do they think they are doing. I think we need a revolution.

MrBrian

sicnevol wrote:

this is crap, they want a database with my identity and they can't even keep hackers out of the Pentagon? Yeah thats going to work REALLY WELL> I'm so staying in Japan. This is such bullshit. They don't even have limits on the use of the information???????? What in the Holy hell do they think they are doing. I think we need a revolution.

Hey, it's better than putting a microchip in our arms with all our info, I hear that ones still a min of 10 years away.

ForestBrain

They are already inserting chips in to people....it's just not well known. Last I heard, over 2,000 people in America have them, and there are a lot of other people on the other side of the world that have them.
I don't see how National Identification cards are going to stop terrorist. Not only that, but aren't they mostly accusing Iraqis as being terrorists? Why are they attacking the American people with this?
All I have to say is stay alert.

sicnevol

MrBrian wrote:

Hey, it's better than putting a microchip in our arms with all our info, I hear that ones still a min of 10 years away.

not really, at least I would control the acess to the chio in my arm......


i'm in asian right now, and i haven't heard anyhtign about the chips....

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Didn't they tatoo ID numbers and symbols on the Jews?

Be very cautious of the "see! look how much it will help you!!" approach. It's usually a disguise for an alternate thought process. Eyes open. But like they're even asking permission to do anything anymore these days.

Stand in line...bend over when it's your turn...

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MrBrian wrote:

Hey, it's better than putting a microchip in our arms with all our info, I hear that ones still a min of 10 years away.

Yeah....I'll gouge that thing out with a rusty razor if I have to.

MrBrian

sicnevol wrote:

not really, at least I would control the acess to the chio in my arm......


i'm in asian right now, and i haven't heard anyhtign about the chips....

well I was kinda being sarcastic, I mean none of those ideas (chips or ID cards like that) are good.

also, I'm guessing that they'll probably have some sorta GPS signal in the chips, so they'll always know your location. haha! would suck.

But I think thats all a long time away, but then again I did read that mexico started testing them out.

i'll have to search for those articles, but I think the company who makes the chips is called "VeriChip"

sicnevol

MrBrian wrote:

well I was kinda being sarcastic, I mean none of those ideas (chips or ID cards like that) are good.

also, I'm guessing that they'll probably have some sorta GPS signal in the chips, so they'll always know your location. haha! would suck.

But I think thats all a long time away, but then again I did read that mexico started testing them out.

i'll have to search for those articles, but I think the company who makes the chips is called "VeriChip"

okay, this was freaking me out. sorry to jump all over you. < you know you liked it>

Wooo sexual harassment.

Heineken Helen

ForestBrain wrote:

They are already inserting chips in to people....it's just not well known. Last I heard, over 2,000 people in America have them, and there are a lot of other people on the other side of the world that have them.

It's scary shit... isn't it a probability that they're going to start inserting chips in babies... and any parents that refuse will be considered bad parents (cos if their kid is abducted, it's their own fault they can't find them). Makes me wonder if it's actually governments going around abducting/pretending to try and abduct kids so people will be scared into agreeing... just like people will be scared into agreeing to do anything else :mad:

Why do they need all this fucking information on us? It's ridiculous... ah don't get me started on conspiracy theories :eek:

know1

I understand some of the concerns, but a national ID doesn't really bother me too much. It's not like you don't already have to have an ID that they can look up fairly easily. This is just standardization of what you already have.

Heineken Helen

know1 wrote:

I understand some of the concerns, but a national ID doesn't really bother me too much. It's not like you don't already have to have an ID that they can look up fairly easily. This is just standardization of what you already have.

What ID do you already have to have that they can look up fairly easily?

know1

Heineken Helen wrote:

What ID do you already have to have that they can look up fairly easily?

Drivers Licenses. You hand a cop your driver's license and he/she goes back to the car and in 2 mins knows your whole record. It's just that there are 50 different drivers licenses.

Heineken Helen

know1 wrote:

Drivers Licenses. You hand a cop your driver's license and he/she goes back to the car and in 2 mins knows your whole record. It's just that there are 50 different drivers licenses.

True... I don't have one though

And you only have to carry it when you're driving... or for stuff that requires photo ID

Does a national ID not mean you'd have to carry it ALL the time? Whatever happened to anonymity? Once we're all happy with ID cards, they'll suggest we ditch them and insert a chip so WE can simply be scanned and THEN who knows where it will go.

know1

Heineken Helen wrote:

True... I don't have one though

And you only have to carry it when you're driving... or for stuff that requires photo ID

Does a national ID not mean you'd have to carry it ALL the time? Whatever happened to anonymity? Once we're all happy with ID cards, they'll suggest we ditch them and insert a chip so WE can simply be scanned and THEN who knows where it will go.

Do you have any form of official ID? My point is that if you do, then you already have the same thing as this national ID....just that it standardizes them.

Heineken Helen

know1 wrote:

Do you have any form of official ID? My point is that if you do, then you already have the same thing as this national ID....just that it standardizes them.

I have a passport... but I only need that when I'm flying somewhere. I don't have to carry it around on me.

A passport has its uses as does a driving licence... what can a national id do that these already can't?

know1

Heineken Helen wrote:

I have a passport... but I only need that when I'm flying somewhere. I don't have to carry it around on me.

A passport has its uses as does a driving licence... what can a national id do that these already can't?

So a passport is your ONLY form of ID? You don't have to show anything when getting into bars or buying items with a check or credit card, or registering a vehicle, etc. etc.?

Heineken Helen

know1 wrote:

So a passport is your ONLY form of ID? You don't have to show anything when getting into bars or buying items with a check or credit card, or registering a vehicle, etc. etc.?

I don't have a check or credit card or a vehicle to register... and it's been a while since I've been asked for ID in a bar but passport would DEFINITELY suffice for any of those. You only need your pin number with a credit card.

blackredyellow

know1 wrote:

I understand some of the concerns, but a national ID doesn't really bother me too much. It's not like you don't already have to have an ID that they can look up fairly easily. This is just standardization of what you already have.

I am pretty much libertarian on privacy issues, but I don't really see the huge deal about this either.

The DMV has my info, driving record, social security number, etc... combine that with my passport, and if the police or government want something, I'm sure it's just a computer search away.

I do have 2 issues with the Real ID act:

1) It seems like an unfunded mandate... The National Conference of State Legislatures is saying that it will cost $11 billion for the states to comply... I just see a lot of the burden and expense falling on the states for something that they don't really want/need.

2) If they have some sort of RFID readable chip in them or something... this could be easily scanned and decrypted without the card carrier ever knowing. This could be done by the gov't or some identity theft hacker.