Hindus Protest Plan For BanOn Nazi Symbols
MrBrian
Posts: 2,672
January 17, 2007 (RFE/RL) -- A German proposal to ban Holocaust denial throughout Europe has run into criticism from Europe's Hindus, who complain the plans would include a ban on the use of the swastika, an ancient symbol that was adopted by the Nazis.
Ramesh Kallidai says that for Hindus, the swastika is a symbol of peace or good luck that's used widely at weddings, religious ceremonies, or to decorate houses.
Kallidai, who heads the Hindu Forum of Britain, says Europe's politicians should focus not on the swastika itself, but on the context in which it is used.
"What we need to understand is that the same symbol can be used both ways. Very much like, for instance, the Ku Klux Klan had burning crosses to spread hatred in America away back in the last century," Kallidai says. "That did not result in a call for people to say, 'Let us ban the use of crosses across churches.' Similarly, just because the Nazi Party misappropriated the symbol [shouldn't] mean it can't be used for religious purposes the way it has been for the last 5,000-7,000 years."
Kallidai's forum is organizing a campaign with other Hindu groups in continental Europe.
They're hoping Germany's plan will fail, as a similar one did two ago when Luxembourg floated the same idea.
But German Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries said earlier this month that the German proposal was more likely to succeed, because Italy, which blocked the Luxembourg plan, now has a new government that is more supportive of the initiative.
Hindus will be waiting to see what other EU countries think of the plan -- and whether they can expect some form of exemption
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/1/70b82f68-0537-443a-8555-09830d904407.html
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Will be interesting to see what happens.
Ramesh Kallidai says that for Hindus, the swastika is a symbol of peace or good luck that's used widely at weddings, religious ceremonies, or to decorate houses.
Kallidai, who heads the Hindu Forum of Britain, says Europe's politicians should focus not on the swastika itself, but on the context in which it is used.
"What we need to understand is that the same symbol can be used both ways. Very much like, for instance, the Ku Klux Klan had burning crosses to spread hatred in America away back in the last century," Kallidai says. "That did not result in a call for people to say, 'Let us ban the use of crosses across churches.' Similarly, just because the Nazi Party misappropriated the symbol [shouldn't] mean it can't be used for religious purposes the way it has been for the last 5,000-7,000 years."
Kallidai's forum is organizing a campaign with other Hindu groups in continental Europe.
They're hoping Germany's plan will fail, as a similar one did two ago when Luxembourg floated the same idea.
But German Justice Minister Brigitte Zypries said earlier this month that the German proposal was more likely to succeed, because Italy, which blocked the Luxembourg plan, now has a new government that is more supportive of the initiative.
Hindus will be waiting to see what other EU countries think of the plan -- and whether they can expect some form of exemption
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/1/70b82f68-0537-443a-8555-09830d904407.html
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Will be interesting to see what happens.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
"Similarly, just because the Nazi Party misappropriated the symbol [shouldn't] mean it can't be used for religious purposes the way it has been for the last 5,000-7,000 years."
i think the person's comparison to the the use of crosses by the KKK is a very unfortunate one... linking the situation to yet another hate-filled, extremist group isn't going to help people understand the origins of the symbol... it's just going to get their guard up about it....
some interesting info here:
http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/omkar.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?discussionID=519787
Although I agree with civ_eng_girl about it not being a good thing to draw comparisons, I think comparing the cross burnings of the KKK and the use of crosses for religious purposes is useful to get some people to understand. I think there's a lot of people out there who wouldn't be able to get their heads around it without a comparison they can easily relate to. Some people don't care, or don't care to obtain any added information until you draw comparisons like that, sad to say.
"Swastika's are bad, mmmkay."
"Let us always meet each other with a smile, for the smile is the beginning of love.", "Peace begins with a smile." - Mother Teresa
I cannot recall who said it but, it went something like this: "The winners write the history books." Your post reminded me of it though.
"Let us always meet each other with a smile, for the smile is the beginning of love.", "Peace begins with a smile." - Mother Teresa
that's exactly what i was thinking about tonight....
a more apt comparison might be the "bad wrap" that the pentagram has gotten over the years - the inverted pentagram being used as a symbol of satan, or the dark arts.
the general public now construes any and all pentagrams as a negative symbol, where as if they took the time to learn about its origins, they would find that it is in fact a very positive, natural, and life affirming symbol
The Swastika wasn't just a hindu symbol too, it has a lonnnnnnnng history in old pagan religions including the ancient egyptian religion I believe. Very cool stuff.
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"Make our day"
swastikas are to be seen all over india.
and it has nothing to do with nazism.
its a hindu symbol that predates hitler and his maniacs by over 3000 years.
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Swim the magic ocean,
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I fully agree with you on this. I have to stop doing that.
"A German proposal to ban Holocaust denial throughout Europe"
So will they be jailing people for their opinions? Its nice to see Europe has finally moved out of the dark ages.
Actually I'm guessing it will be a fine. And yes you can be convicted for your opinions in Europe (for example for denying the reality of the holocaust, for claiming in public black people/arabs/jews/nameyourminority are not men etc.), it's a cool place.
It's a tough call on the subject though. I understand the Hindus don't want to loose an important symbol but what happens when there will be nazi skinheads wearing proudly their swastikas while claiming to be hindus in front of the authorities?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2513615,00.html
true, and buddhism as well.
edit: it is also left-facing when used in most religions, unlike the nazi symbol.
I see no problem with that scenario either. It shouldn't be up to a government to punish this behavior. It needs to be up to a free society to marginalize it.
i guess my point was that i thought is was unfortunate that Kallidai chose to support his point by emphasising the negative nazi sybolism, instead of taking the opportunity to spread the knowledge about the positive (and lesser-known) hindu symbolism....
I've seen racists (for example) use flags of their countries claiming to be patriots while standing infront of authorities. It would be wrong to ban the flag of the entire country because some choose to use the flag to represent the whatever views they have right?
I guess I just feel that taking away a symbol just because it's used by a racist group won't stop them from being racist, infact they'll probably just hate more. Maybe more should be done to teach equality and tolerance.
When I spoke about fines I was referring to the swastikas. But anyways, this 'poor man' is not supposed (like any other man) to ignore the law. I'm sure he was aware the statements he made would land him in prison, these laws are not new and exist in many countries. I'm happy for him that he was freed and that he apologised and took back his claims. But I expect anyone, even a 68 year old, to respect the law.
I wholeheartedly agree with your points. But the swastika holds a much stronger meaning than any flag still in use, I mean I saw someone get beat up in school after drawing one on his schoolbook. I think it's a really complicated issue, but I tend to agree with the fact they should let Hindus use their symbols as they wish.
Maybe cut the cake in half? The nazi symbol was a clockwise symbol I think!
That would be great if it was not utopic. There will always be ****heads willing to hurt psychologically other people (and that can be as harsh as a beating).
edit (I keep spelling swastika wrong)
You are right...there always will be bad people like that. Even with these laws there are people who are just mean. I just never agree with a government passing laws regarding a person's beliefs. It's not my country though, so I'm not going to raise that big of a fuss over this.
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Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
A swastika, or a pentagram and a quarter will get you a steaming hot cup of crap.
A swastika is neither a symbol of peace nor war. It's a shape, a piece of art, it has no meaning.
"When I look at the Mona Lisa, I see a very upset and oppressed woman."
"Really? When I look I see a content and respectable woman."
It's a fucking painting! Mona Lisa doesn't have thoughts and feelings, neither does a fucking swastika.
Science!!!!(As opposed to God!) People look way too far into stuff for some kind of personal meaning.
I agree, maybe the hindu organisations need to get together to launch an orchestrated campaign to take the symbol back or get an exemption. That way they can raise its positive profile and show how it's supposed to look (ie the correct way round) and what its about. If pagan or other groups want to join as well they should be free to as well.
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All these little marks you just typed mean something because we gave them meaning. The swastika has been given meaning by billions of people throughout history.
Plus, interpretation of an artwork and the meaning of a symbol are two different things. Symbols have a specific meaning, art is open to interpretation.
Really dumb thing to say, sorry.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"