Abu Ghraib Torture

MrBrian

Now after a few years since the first reports of abu ghraib, sadly we now for sure know that the torture was not so rare and was infact Systematic. Guantánamo is a perfect example of how the torture continues. as reported by the red cross and human rights watch.

This video is about abu ghraib and pictures that most americans have not seen. It's very graphic. It's from dateline australia.


http://www.adin-noticias.com.ar/abugrahib.htm

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sponger

I'm not surprised. When the abu thing first broke, I remember posting on a conservative message board that this type of thing was the norm in that prison, that CIA interrogators instructed those soldiers to use those methods, and that the US government was going to hang those soldiers out to dry by painting to the whole incident as being isolated and initiated by a few trouble-making guards.

Do I personally care,though? Not really. It's just war. I'm numb to it now. Every time I turn on the TV it's 9/11 this and 9/11 that. Shows like 24 are spawned from 9/11 hysteria. Country singers won't shut up about 9/11.

Collin

Can't play the video right now, but will watch it later on.

MrBrian

http://www.roadtoguantanamomovie.com/

AP: Gitmo Movie Subjects Discuss Suicide
By PAISLEY DODDS
The Associated Press

LONDON -- Three British youths formerly detained at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay and now the subjects of a new film about their experiences say they were driven to desperation knowing others had tried to kill themselves at the camp.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Shafiq Rasul and his two friends _ Ruhal Ahmed and Asif Iqbal _ describe how they were held at Guantanamo for more than two years without charge. Many of the some 460 detainees accused of links to Afghanistan's Taliban regime or the al-Qaida terror network have been held for more than four years without charge

"There is no hope in Guantanamo. The only thing that goes through your mind day after day is how to get justice or how to kill yourself," Rasul, 29, who waged a hunger strike at the camp to protest alleged beatings, said Saturday. "It is the despair _ not the thought of martyrdom _ that consumes you there."

Two Saudis and one Yemeni who had been held at the camp since it opened in 2002 killed themselves Saturday by using their sheets and clothes to hang themselves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/12/AR2006061200235.html

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Looks kinda interesting. it's old right? say's june 23rd but I think that's from last year.

CorporateWhore

What you call torture I call soldiers being dumbasses. Not torture. Dumbasses.

Fighting Hellfish

you don't think they're following orders?

MrBrian

CorporateWhore wrote:

What you call torture I call soldiers being dumbasses. Not torture. Dumbasses.

alright my friend. But I just don't see how locking people up for years, with no trial, no just cause, then torture...I mean be "dumbasses" towards them is any better.

But it's still hard for you to explain? the fact that these orders came from higher levels and is known to be widespread.

Ah yes, the higher levels going right up to the top must therfore all be
"dumbasses".

Now that I think about what you said, you have a point.
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CorporateWhore

MrBrian wrote:

alright my friend. But I just don't see how locking people up for years, with no trial, no just cause, then torture...I mean be "dumbasses" towards them is any better.

But it's still hard for you to explain? the fact that these orders came from higher levels and is known to be widespread.

Ah yes, the higher levels going right up to the top must therfore all be
"dumbasses".

Now that I think about what you said, you have a point.
----

I don't even think we should be there in the first place.

This is still what happens when you let largely uneducated individuals go to a foreign country and dominate them. If it were a more worthy pursuit that we were achieving in Iraq, I might be less likely to say something about the torture.

Illegal things happen in wars. It's the government's job to find them and prosecute them for being dumbasses.

Still, this war wasn't worth the soiling of our reputation. Other wars were worth it - like in WWII when we took no prisoners at times. The overall mission was worth it though we may have had isolated incidents of dumbasses doing stupid shit.

MrBrian

ah, I understand, but remember that the government allowed these things.
It's also the government that's running Gitmo which is breaking a huge list of laws.

So many abuses,deaths and so on. people being held for years without trial. these are serious things.

sponger

Anyone listen to Tammy Bruce on the weekends? I consider her to be the Tokyo Rose of the republican propaganda machine. When the subject of Gitmo gets brought up, she rolls into the many illusions that americans are probably buying into when they turn a blind eye to what is going on there. A good one I heard her say was, "That facility can only house so many people. The American government would never waste that valuable space by filling it with people who aren't guilty."

Last Exodus

MrBrian wrote:

Now after a few years since the first reports of abu ghraib, sadly we now for sure know that the torture was not so rare and was infact Systematic. Guantánamo is a perfect example of how the torture continues. as reported by the red cross and human rights watch.

This video is about abu ghraib and pictures that most americans have not seen. It's very graphic. It's from dateline australia.


http://www.adin-noticias.com.ar/abugrahib.htm

---

if its on TV it must be true. war is hell. we don't know who those iraqis are who were photographed. for all we know they are al qaeda militants or former revolutionary guard responsible for killing thousands. who knows. war ain't pretty on either side. to be balanced why don't you post some of those grizzly American beheadings and then you might understand why the soliders over there might be under a little stress. sorry, but putting a bunch of naked guys on top of each other is nothin compared to what some of these arab butchers are doing over there.

sapperskunk

Last Exodus wrote:

if its on TV it must be true. war is hell. we don't know who those iraqis are who were photographed. for all we know they are al qaeda militants or former revolutionary guard responsible for killing thousands. who knows. war ain't pretty on either side. to be balanced why don't you post some of those grizzly American beheadings and then you might understand why the soliders over there might be under a little stress. sorry, but putting a bunch of naked guys on top of each other is nothin compared to what some of these arab butchers are doing over there.

Don't waste your time, some people on these boards are so pathetic they'll believe anything the media tells them to be true. They soak it up like little sponges and critique things they know nothing about, all the while safe and comfortable inside these borders of which they dare not to leave. Makes me sick.

I can't believe I wasted my time on that entire video.

mammasan

sapperskunk wrote:

Don't waste your time, some people on these boards are so pathetic they'll believe anything the media tells them to be true. They soak it up like little sponges and critique things they know nothing about, all the while safe and comfortable inside these borders of which they dare not to leave. Makes me sick.

People can't criticize injustice because they didn't serve in Iraq.

The Illinoisemakers

MrBrian wrote:

http://www.roadtoguantanamomovie.com/

AP: Gitmo Movie Subjects Discuss Suicide
By PAISLEY DODDS
The Associated Press

LONDON -- Three British youths formerly detained at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay and now the subjects of a new film about their experiences say they were driven to desperation knowing others had tried to kill themselves at the camp.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Shafiq Rasul and his two friends _ Ruhal Ahmed and Asif Iqbal _ describe how they were held at Guantanamo for more than two years without charge. Many of the some 460 detainees accused of links to Afghanistan's Taliban regime or the al-Qaida terror network have been held for more than four years without charge

"There is no hope in Guantanamo. The only thing that goes through your mind day after day is how to get justice or how to kill yourself," Rasul, 29, who waged a hunger strike at the camp to protest alleged beatings, said Saturday. "It is the despair _ not the thought of martyrdom _ that consumes you there."

Two Saudis and one Yemeni who had been held at the camp since it opened in 2002 killed themselves Saturday by using their sheets and clothes to hang themselves.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/12/AR2006061200235.html

---

Looks kinda interesting. it's old right? say's june 23rd but I think that's from last year.

What did these three guys do to get a vacation to Guantanamo?

sapperskunk

mammasan wrote:

People can't criticize injustice because they didn't serve in Iraq.

I didn't say that. The fact that the video called it "sanctioned" implies that stacking naked prisoners is standard operating procedure. Systematic? That's weird because I and my men personally must have captured and detained hundreds, literally hundreds of Iraqi's. Not one time did I or any of my soldiers mistreat any of those POW's in any way remotely CLOSE to what those assholes did at Abu Ghraib. Absolute professionalism, I wouldn't accept anything less.

It was a shock to everyone, I dropped off detainees at the camp outside the Abu Ghraib prison all the time, never did I see anything like that shit in the video, otherwise I or any NORMAL fucking human would have said something.

This is not normal behavior by the military, this is terrible, disgusting shit that gives the military a bad name.

mammasan

sapperskunk wrote:

I didn't say that. The fact that the video called it "sanctioned" implies that stacking naked prisoners is standard operating procedure. Systematic? That's weird because I and my men personally must have captured and detained hundreds, literally hundreds of Iraqi's. Not one time did I or any of my soldiers mistreat any of those POW's in any way remotely CLOSE to what those assholes did at Abu Ghraib. Absolute professionalism, I wouldn't accept anything less.

It was a shock to everyone, I dropped off detainees at the camp outside the Abu Ghraib prison all the time, never did I see anything like that shit in the video, otherwise I or any NORMAL fucking human would have said something.

This is not normal behavior by the military, this is terrible, disgusting shit that gives the military a bad name.

I agree. My brother-in-law was in Iraq and he was equally horrified at what happened in Abu Graib. The problem is that ther are instances of this occuring in Afghanistan and Guantanimo as well. I wouldn't say it's the militaries faultbut I defenetly believe that someone, high up, is allowing this to happen. For Christ's sake the counsel to the president was basically teling him that we have every right to ignore the rules of the Geneva Convention. Now I know that some of these captives are jihadist, who to me are no more than animals, but we are the US. We have to hold ourselves to a higher standard and the minute we lower that standard for any reason we take a step closer to being like those animals.

sapperskunk

mammasan wrote:

I agree. My brother-in-law was in Iraq and he was equally horrified at what happened in Abu Graib. The problem is that ther are instances of this occuring in Afghanistan and Guantanimo as well. I wouldn't say it's the militaries faultbut I defenetly believe that someone, high up, is allowing this to happen. For Christ's sake the counsel to the president was basically teling him that we have every right to ignore the rules of the Geneva Convention. Now I know that some of these captives are jihadist, who to me are no more than animals, but we are the US. We have to hold ourselves to a higher standard and the minute we lower that standard for any reason we take a step closer to being like those animals.

Guantanemo is completely different, that's a DOD/CIA/NSA/FBI operation, nobody knows what the hells going on there and I certainly don't know anybody who's there. As far as Afghanistan goes, I'm not sure that's in stone yet is it? I wouldn't doubt it if some SF guys roughed up some detainees, but you still have to understand it's not normal. We had a small jail on our compund, enough for about 10 or so people, we would keep people there until some MP's would make there way to our forward operating base to pick them up, or we would have to take them down to Abu Ghraib.

One time, this guy decided not to eat any food or drink any of the bottled water we had left out at all times for the prisoners. The guy in charge of watching the prisoners at the time didn't give a shit, he assumed the guy would eventually drink water when he was thirsty enough. The guy died. My battallion XO did a two month investigation on who was in charge and eventually cleared him. This was before the Abu Ghraib scandal.