The real Giuliani?
MrBrian
Posts: 2,672
im Chipman Fri Mar 9, 12:12 AM ET
March 9 (Bloomberg) -- Rudy Giuliani, who has parlayed his identity as the hero of Sept. 11 into a front-running presidential candidacy, was himself attacked by the nation's firefighters union for rushing to remove debris at New York's World Trade Center site before many remains had been recovered.
The International Association of Fire Fighters union said it wants its 260,000 U.S. members to know the ``real story'' of the former New York mayor, contending that Giuliani sought to curtail search-and-recovery efforts at the World Trade Center site after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, that claimed the lives of 2,752 people, including 343 union fire fighters.
The union said Giuliani decided on Nov. 2, 2001, to cut the number of fire fighters who could search for the remains of their fallen brethren and other victims to no more 25 at one time, down from more than 300 involved in the search and recovery effort.
Before Giuliani's decision, 101 bodies or remains of fire fighters had been recovered, the union said.
Giuliani also began a ``scoop-and-dump'' operation to speed clean-up of the site as opposed to removing debris piece by piece ``in hope of uncovering more remains,'' the union said.
More Bodies Found
The Washington-based union said that local union presidents tried to meet with Giuliani to stop the action, and the mayor refused to see them. It also said 15 protesting fire fighters were arrested on Giuliani's orders. The union said public outrage ultimately compelled Giuliani to reverse his position.
``Our protests were later proven justified as more bodies were ultimately recovered and those families given a chance for some closure and a decent burial,'' the letter said.
The union said Giuliani was more concerned about the removal of gold, silver and other assets of the Bank of Nova Scotia that was buried beneath the rubble than he was of human remains.
``He valued the money and gold and wanted the site cleared before he left office at the end of 2001 more than he valued the lives and memories of those lost,'' the letter said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20070309/pl_bloomberg/a8o5p2xitqhk
March 9 (Bloomberg) -- Rudy Giuliani, who has parlayed his identity as the hero of Sept. 11 into a front-running presidential candidacy, was himself attacked by the nation's firefighters union for rushing to remove debris at New York's World Trade Center site before many remains had been recovered.
The International Association of Fire Fighters union said it wants its 260,000 U.S. members to know the ``real story'' of the former New York mayor, contending that Giuliani sought to curtail search-and-recovery efforts at the World Trade Center site after the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, that claimed the lives of 2,752 people, including 343 union fire fighters.
The union said Giuliani decided on Nov. 2, 2001, to cut the number of fire fighters who could search for the remains of their fallen brethren and other victims to no more 25 at one time, down from more than 300 involved in the search and recovery effort.
Before Giuliani's decision, 101 bodies or remains of fire fighters had been recovered, the union said.
Giuliani also began a ``scoop-and-dump'' operation to speed clean-up of the site as opposed to removing debris piece by piece ``in hope of uncovering more remains,'' the union said.
More Bodies Found
The Washington-based union said that local union presidents tried to meet with Giuliani to stop the action, and the mayor refused to see them. It also said 15 protesting fire fighters were arrested on Giuliani's orders. The union said public outrage ultimately compelled Giuliani to reverse his position.
``Our protests were later proven justified as more bodies were ultimately recovered and those families given a chance for some closure and a decent burial,'' the letter said.
The union said Giuliani was more concerned about the removal of gold, silver and other assets of the Bank of Nova Scotia that was buried beneath the rubble than he was of human remains.
``He valued the money and gold and wanted the site cleared before he left office at the end of 2001 more than he valued the lives and memories of those lost,'' the letter said.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20070309/pl_bloomberg/a8o5p2xitqhk
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
It was a terrible thing, not really sure how having a body to bury makes it better.
Like chief said, closure plays an important role. But now that I think about it, one can also say that it's almost selfish for victims families to want the recovery to be more than a month since obvioulsy only body parts remain. why spend so much more time looking for these parts when at the time it was also very important to start a major clean up.
I see your point,
Its for the families of the victims to decide on whether or not having a body to bury makes it better.
Certainly I see your point. But then again, how long is long enough? DO we have ot find all the bodies? We don;t even know how many to look for.
I think it is people just lashing out due to their extreme pain from the loss. Hopefully they will come to terms.
Sure enough, but someone has to decide when to stop searching.
I agree....very touchy subject to those involved, I reckon!
i thought it was 2 months. 9/11 to 11/2. either way; rotting bodies is a health hazard to the living. add the fact that rats would be consuming the remains; i think it was a good decision in the best interests of the public. to some having a body is important; but to many others removing hazardous materials was important. governments job is to protect the public and that's what was done.
You are right, almost 2 months.
i hate politicians that make everything a popularity contest. we need a strong leader that will do what's best in the face of being unpopular.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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( o.O)
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Yeah true, but when you take into account some of the other decisions he made post 9/11. It's pretty easy to look at Giuliani as a poor leader.
I mean turning away 20 million dollars because it came from a guy who criticized American foreign policy as being the possible cause of the WTC attacks. That's a very poor decision.
How do you feel about the US dealings with Saddam in the 80's?
If you feel that was bad, then I would think you would like RG turning that money down.
PS -- My 100th post! (thank you word game)
the rats swam to brooklyn.
cross the river to the eastside
March 8, 2007
http://www.firefightingnews.com/article-US.cfm?articleID=27125
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The guy who gave the donation is not a mass killer, he's a business man who just decided to give a huge amount of money to help out.
To turn that money away shows nothing but ignorance. Did the dollar bills have bombs on them? I mean the money would've helped. that was the point.
It was not blood money, infact most of his money is not even oil money, it's from property and investments.
Oh yeah, I said 20, but it was 10 million. my bad
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Waleed_bin_Talal
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/10/11/rec.giuliani.prince/index.html
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
Ahem. They prefer to be called "Bens".
oh yes of course, how could i forget the Bens that wanted to live rent free? i mean, at least the Jerrys were cute---when remaining on the floor.
ben the two of us need look no more, i think not.
cross the river to the eastside
i've been reading up on rudy's mayoral career pre-sept. 11. interesting stuff...
Mayor Giuliani's actions meant that fire fighters and citizens who perished would either remain buried at Ground Zero forever, with no closure for families, or be removed like garbage and deposited at the Fresh Kills Landfill.
And when hundreds of family members of the fallen joined with our affiliate leadership and members to protest Giuliani's decision, he ordered senior officers of the New York Police Department to arrest 15 of our FDNY brothers, including a number of local elected IAFF leaders.
In the first few days immediately after the disaster, Giuliani had said he was committed to the recovery of those lost "right down to the last brick." We believed him at the time. But, what he proved with his actions is that he really meant the "last gold brick."
Giuliani crucified fire fighters after our protest and publicly stated that our members were essentially acting like babies, that they didn't have the market cornered on grief. His insensitive statements demonstrated his inability to grasp what members of the FDNY were experiencing.
yeah, that does seem like a load of fucking shit! :rolleyes:
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
really? would you tell that to the firefighters?
mmm.... Ben and Jerry's
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/giuliani_to_run_for_president_of_9
here's that nation article about his career, if you haven't read it yet:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020617/newfield
cross the river to the eastside