Red-Green: Stephane Dion

polaris

he was probably the only one i liked of the bunch although i've always been impressed with kennedy ...

i know many quebecers hate him with a passion but i believe in the PET vision of canada ... and so does he ...

but more importantly - liberals are finally realizing what is the most important issue facing us and that is the environment ... it will become an election issue and for that we are moving in the right direction ...

RockinInCanada

Seems to be a very popular choice...not to read too much into polls...but the majority of Canadians are behind the Liberals again...and rumour has it Harper believed that a Dion victory would equate to a majority....very interesting times ahead in the political climate in Canada

69charger

I've always like Red Green too. I hope you vote him into office.

http://www.redgreen.com/files/layout/red_on_boat.jpg

Canadians are funny.

gue_barium

I need some duct tape to get my internet connection...whoa, there it is, one more wrap 'round the antenna...

polaris

i was wondering when someone would make that reference ...

anyhoo - it will be very interesting to see come the spring ... the conservatives don't really have much legislation that will pass - not unless they decide to compromise a bit ...

surferdude

He's got a tough road to get elected. He will really alienate voters in BC and Alberta that weren't already Liberal voters, though he may be able to steal some NDP votes due to his environmental stance. He seems to be not well liked in Quebec. I think he'll get hammered in Quebec also for his new found love for the environment, considering he did nothing for it while in power.

It will be interesting to see where Layton tries to position the NDP aas I think Dion is even more pro-environment than the NDP.

polaris

surferdude wrote:

He's got a tough road to get elected. He will really alienate voters in BC and Alberta that weren't already Liberal voters, though he may be able to steal some NDP votes due to his environmental stance. He seems to be not well liked in Quebec. I think he'll get hammered in Quebec also for his new found love for the environment, considering he did nothing for it while in power.

It will be interesting to see where Layton tries to position the NDP aas I think Dion is even more pro-environment than the NDP.

again ... he's done way more for the environment than you will ever give him/them credit for ... but that's politics i guess ...

anyhoo - no one but conservatives gets elected in alberta ... that province is more distinct than quebec in my mind ... i think he'll win more seats in quebec than martin and even harper ... harper's policies are against the quebec grain ... he hasn't addressed the fiscal imbalance like he said he would and his anti gay marriage and anti environment is evident now ...

i do think the ndp are in trouble ...

thankyougrandma

When we heard the results, we laughed so hard (i still laugh a bit)... he learned from Jean Chrétien, but don't have the charisma and quote from Chrétien. He's an intellectual, he has integrity (doesn't come from any establishment), he's definitly a leftist, he likes environnment but he's the one who blocked the cash from coming in QC for the Kyoto accord (idiot) which lead the Quebec environment minister at the time, Thomas Mulcair a Liberal, to say that he can sometimes understand the separatist :eek:. Plus Canada did really bad on the environement level under his watch.

I don't think he's hate in Quebec, he's just unpopular, but one or two policies could make public opinion change fast, so Harper is right to say that the Cons. shouldn't underestimate Dion.

But it's still a funny choice, and it just proves that we live in an era of bad politicians and politics, and i can only imagine the debate between him and Harper, wow what a nice valium they make together...

surferdude

polaris wrote:

again ... he's done way more for the environment than you will ever give him/them credit for ... but that's politics i guess ...

anyhoo - no one but conservatives gets elected in alberta ... that province is more distinct than quebec in my mind ... i think he'll win more seats in quebec than martin and even harper ... harper's policies are against the quebec grain ... he hasn't addressed the fiscal imbalance like he said he would and his anti gay marriage and anti environment is evident now ...

i do think the ndp are in trouble ...

If Dion can come out with a good economic plan, and elaborate what he means by social justice I'd seriously think about voting for him. His "social justice" agenda tends to scare the shit out of me, especially since he hasn't really said what it would mean in action. It just reminds me of everything that was bad about Trudeau.

I am hoping that Harper can cust the GST once more before an election. If Harper can bring the taxes down abit and Dion and has a good economic plan I won't feel bad if the Liberals regain power. It will be interesting to see how Dion plans to pull together an economic plan with an enviro friendly agenda without affecting the the tax base too much thet Alberta's oil exploration brings in. This is the big challenge for every Prime Minister for the next 30 years. Harper's just ignoring, Layton has no plan, and I'm waiting to see Dion's plan.

polaris

one of canada's great moments in the last few years internationally was the Climate Conference in Montreal which Dion charged - he was applauded along with Canada around the world ... we went from hero to zero so fast - its unbelievable ...

lets face it - if any gov't runs a defecit now - they won't last ... we've been running $10 billion surpluses for too long ... i don't mind tax cuts as long as they are aimed at bridging the prosperity gap which continues to widen ...

and grandma - i don't think its a funny choice at all ... its the anti-old boys club choice ... the tired corrupt liberals that ran the country for a decade plus wanted ignatieff but the delegates, the youth, the others wanted someone not from that circle ... if kennedy had 2 more votes than dion after the first ballot - we may be talking about him ...

either way - the environment will be an election issue and that is the most important thing to me ...

thankyougrandma

polaris wrote:

one of canada's great moments in the last few years internationally was the Climate Conference in Montreal which Dion charged - he was applauded along with Canada around the world ... we went from hero to zero so fast - its unbelievable ...

lets face it - if any gov't runs a defecit now - they won't last ... we've been running $10 billion surpluses for too long ... i don't mind tax cuts as long as they are aimed at bridging the prosperity gap which continues to widen ...

and grandma - i don't think its a funny choice at all ... its the anti-old boys club choice ... the tired corrupt liberals that ran the country for a decade plus wanted ignatieff but the delegates, the youth, the others wanted someone not from that circle ... if kennedy had 2 more votes than dion after the first ballot - we may be talking about him ...

either way - the environment will be an election issue and that is the most important thing to me ...

Believe me, it is funny... well it was. Stephane Dion is like a running joke among federal politicians, he's the target of every comics, tv shows a la "...22 minutes" and he has no charisma at all, he sound like a superior cocky human being when talking to journalist, he's responsible for the Clarity act which is rejected by every political party in Quebec, everyone was surprise in Quebec by that choice, proof, no Liberal Quebec deputy choosed him in the leadership race, they all got behind other candidates.

Charest is saying that Dion will have a hard road to convince Quebecers to vote for him, and Dion IS a Quebecer. He was applaud at the Montreal Conference, but it was his only good move, plus he did an horrible job to solve Canada's environment situation even if he talks like if he was the best ever, all he did was this presidency of the Montreal conference, which lead to nothing since he blocked the funding for the Kyoto accord, ironic. He'll be very popular in the ROC for his hard line towards Quebec, just like Chrétien and Trudeau, and an elected PQ would definitly help Dion to win an election(he'd even get vote in Alberta).

That being said, i think he'll change his approach and will probably try to win vote in Quebec, i don't know how he'll do that, but i'll wait to see. So yes, when we heard the result, the shock rapidly turned into laughing...

edit: i should add that his left wing policies will probably give him a chance to win some votes in Quebec, but that remain to be seen as to what he'll do, instead of what he say (just like the environment dossier).

polaris

one thing that never gets mentioned is that there were big plans in place by many industries to reduce their emissions - that meant spending in newer technologies and such ... all those plans got scrapped when the conservatives got elected because they knew they didn't have to do anything anymore ...

u don't create climate change problem in a span of a year or two nor do you fix it in that time ... yes, we had a 30% rise in emissions ... not saying this was a good thing but let's face it ... the price of oil skyrocketed during that time making the oil sands an economic goldmine ... the oilsands takes 3 times the amount of greenhouse gases to extract than conventional crude ...

not saying all our increases were due to that but that is a huge chunk of it ... so, plans by transalta and suncorp to invest some of the goldmine into cleaner technologies all were scrapped when we essentially walked out on kyoto ...

thankyougrandma

of course i'm not saying that the Cons are better, they're doing an horrible job, at least the Libs had some kind of plans, while the Cons. are just trying to buy times on the whole topic, they'll get burn in the next election if they don't change their strategy on environment...

warehouse

I think the Clarity Act was needed, we can't have another referendum based on a confusing question like last time. Whthere it's been popular or not in Quebec, I believe it had to be done. Surprisingly a poll taken this week showed 62% of Quebecers in favor of Dion so he may just be able to grab a few more seats there than people are giving him credit for. It's an exciting time in Canadian politics and I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

RockinInCanada

I want to give credit to Mr. Dion for taking, in my honest opinion, a cheap partisian attack by Harper on same sex marriage by agreeing to a free vote....good for him...another shot down legislation from Harper...why won't this just give it up on the issue....makes me sick....but not as sick as I become about a man named Ted Morton....narrowly lost the Alberta premier vote......talking about the Reform party coming back to the forefront...the Reform party IMHO is the most disgusting party in Canadian politics the only they did right was bringing down the Conservative party for the last decade....the most backwoods party in Canadian history.....as for Dion he will become the next PM in Canada....the Tories are dead in the water in Quebec....thats all it will take to get the Libs back in power...plus the swarm of NDP votes that will come back to the party.....still reading how Harper will try to pass legislation, EVEN after this upcoming vote, to make it a CHOICE for public government officals to not perform same sex marriage if they do not want to....I cannot believe this is still an issue....the Conservatives a party based upon archaeic social policies....makes me want to vomit....

polaris

the reform party are in power now ... the social conservatives of the PC party are long gone ... why do you think all MP's are muzzled and why staffers are told to report to the PMO on what their boss is doing ...

thankyougrandma

So the vote on same sex marriage part 2.0 is today right? Should be interesting.

Dion has taken Liberals from Quebec back into the Libs camp, that's good news for Canada, it could block the Cons. in the next election, Dion is definitly my second choice since i've heard Layton say that Dion should drop his french citizenship, what a retarded thoughts from a suppose progressive leader.

polaris

thankyougrandma wrote:

So the vote on same sex marriage part 2.0 is today right? Should be interesting.

Dion has taken Liberals from Quebec back into the Libs camp, that's good news for Canada, it could block the Cons. in the next election, Dion is definitly my second choice since i've heard Layton say that Dion should drop his french citizenship, what a retarded thoughts from a suppose progressive leader.

i'm not happy with layton and the ndp's strategy of targeting the liberals all the time ... having said that - Michael Jean renounced her French Citizenship when she became GG ... i'm indifferent to it myself but if someone asks you what you think - u answer ... this is not that big a deal ...

thankyougrandma

polaris wrote:

i'm not happy with layton and the ndp's strategy of targeting the liberals all the time ... having said that - Michael Jean renounced her French Citizenship when she became GG ... i'm indifferent to it myself but if someone asks you what you think - u answer ... this is not that big a deal ...

Jean is a hero in Africa, have you read about that? , some African leaders praise Canada for naming her the gov. general. Imagine if she'd be elected... hehe. Yes she renounce her french citizenship but it was her own choice, Dion said he don't want to renounce his french citizenship, so let him be a French citizen if he want to. Layton is definitly done with Dion left wing agenda, the NDP should choose a new leader or consider an alliance with the Libs, in my opinion.

polaris

thankyougrandma wrote:

Jean is a hero in Africa, have you read about that? , some African leaders praise Canada for naming her the gov. general. Imagine if she'd be elected... hehe. Yes she renounce her french citizenship but it was her own choice, Dion said he don't want to renounce his french citizenship, so let him be a French citizen if he want to. Layton is definitly done with Dion left wing agenda, the NDP should choose a new leader or consider an alliance with the Libs, in my opinion.

well ... in my mind ... there is still a lot to be seen ... one person cannot change an entire party ... there are still a lot of old school mp's who have those political ties to various groups that still have influence ...

the ndp needs to grow its base ... layton has done an excellent job of putting them on the map ... i will probably vote green next election ...

thankyougrandma

polaris wrote:

well ... in my mind ... there is still a lot to be seen ... one person cannot change an entire party ... there are still a lot of old school mp's who have those political ties to various groups that still have influence ...

the ndp needs to grow its base ... layton has done an excellent job of putting them on the map ... i will probably vote green next election ...

Yeah we should go to the ballots after christmas, so it's the time to consider our voting options, i don't know about the Greens, i'll seriously consider voting Liberals for the first time in my life (it hurts to say it) just to get Harper out of there, and then having Dion helping the Sovereignty cause , my second choice after the Bloc was Layton, but i don't think he's a good choice now, could change, as you said, still a lot to be seen.

thankyougrandma

warehouse wrote:

I think the Clarity Act was needed, we can't have another referendum based on a confusing question like last time. Whthere it's been popular or not in Quebec, I believe it had to be done. Surprisingly a poll taken this week showed 62% of Quebecers in favor of Dion so he may just be able to grab a few more seats there than people are giving him credit for. It's an exciting time in Canadian politics and I can't wait to see how it all plays out.

The problem is not the Clarity act itself, it's the fact that Canada cannot tell Quebec what to do regarding their own sovereignty, the clarity act should be reproduced and voted in the Quebec national assembly, then it would be legitimate.

edit: i agree, if Quebec want to separate, it must be clear, in the interest of everyone, but people are not stupid, everyone knew what YES meant on the ballot, and what NO meant on the ballot and everyone knew that the margin needed was 50%+1.

polaris

thankyougrandma wrote:

Yeah we should go to the ballots after christmas, so it's the time to consider our voting options, i don't know about the Greens, i'll seriously consider voting Liberals for the first time in my life (it hurts to say it) just to get Harper out of there, and then having Dion helping the Sovereignty cause , my second choice after the Bloc was Layton, but i don't think he's a good choice now, could change, as you said, still a lot to be seen.

i live in layton's riding ... i think he is in trouble here because it is a traditionally liberal riding but they got tired of the fockers in there ... if they put forth a progressive candidate here - he might lose ...

i like elizabeth may - to finish 2nd in london there should send shockwaves especially to the conservatives as i think its a reflection of their governance ...

but yeah - knowing that harper has a strong base - it'll come down to a few ridings here and there ...