How about his blind support of Israel? Never speaking about the occupation?
What about all that propaganda he talks about Iran? His support of the Patriot Act (Lite or diet, what you want to call it)...plus the whole Russia/Georgia thing. I mean how backwards he is on that one.
How about his blind support of Israel? Never speaking about the occupation?
What about all that propaganda he talks about Iran? His support of the Patriot Act (Lite or diet, what you want to call it)...plus the whole Russia/Georgia thing. I mean how backwards he is on that one.
You respect a person like that?
Yes or no.....?
Stop "Fox Newsing" him Mr Brian. You Know he blindly supports Israel, or you got some facts to share?
Answer the question, do you really respect a person like that?
I don't see "Blind Support " of anything. I don't consider brief comments from a President Elect in the final days of his campaign as representative of his all encompassing views on Russia, and I have not heard or read anything from him regarding the patriot act. Frankly, I am not sure I am completely against the patriot act, but surely the way it was used... Many voted to give the office of the President the flexibility to provide security of our nation.. we had a leader that had other interests and comprimised our security as well as our freedoms. From that we learn that some new safeguards and accountability need to be added. I am not sure that I fundimentally disagree with the intentions of the patriot act.
I don't see "Blind Support " of anything. I don't consider brief comments from a President Elect in the final days of his campaign as representative of his all encompassing views on Russia, and I have not heard or read anything from him regarding the patriot act. Frankly, I am not sure I am completely against the patriot act, but surely the way it was used... Many voted to give the office of the President the flexibility to provide security of our nation.. we had a leader that had other interests and comprimised our security as well as our freedoms. From that we learn that some new safeguards and accountability need to be added. I am not sure that I fundimentally disagree with the intentions of the patriot act.
"I want you to know that today I'll be speaking from my heart, and as a true friend of Israel. And I know that when I visit with AIPAC, I am among friends. Good friends. Friends who share my strong commitment to make sure that the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever."
"the bond between Israel and the United States is rooted in more than our shared national interests — it's rooted in the shared values and shared stories of our people. And as president, I will work with you to ensure that this bond is strengthened."
"But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security."
"Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "
Where's Obama's criticism. If he really commits to creating peace, surely he must have something to say about Israel's actions? Well, he does, he calls it self-defense and has promised to always help them with that.
Can you really expect mainstream people to back Nader? He too, has an agenda, and like anyone else is as pompus as can be-or couldn't beleive himself.
His claim to fame is killing off the Chevy Corvair for having a swing axle design that was, in fact changed in 1965. Hmmmmmm I wonder where Detroit got cold feet about economical cars? Right or wrong, can you not expect reprecussions about this? So, going into the 1970s, cars became more bloated due to increased safety features( not that safety features are bad in any way), then 5mph bumpers along with emission controls at the same time( era anyway) . While much of this work in Unsafe at Any Speed did help vehicle safety, the long term effects brought us the horrible cars of the 1970s. Incidentally, the Asian makers were able to watch this and learn-suffering none of the bad press-then they make equally unsafe vehicles with superior engieneering and quality control...how? Well , by stealing amny ideas ( from the Germans mainly) costs of R&D are signifigantly reduced.
So, Nader has played his part in the demise of the US auto industry as well as Detroit itself.
No, I have not payed a lot of attention to Nader anymore than I do to Al Gore or Charles Manson.
"I want you to know that today I'll be speaking from my heart, and as a true friend of Israel. And I know that when I visit with AIPAC, I am among friends. Good friends. Friends who share my strong commitment to make sure that the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever."
"the bond between Israel and the United States is rooted in more than our shared national interests — it's rooted in the shared values and shared stories of our people. And as president, I will work with you to ensure that this bond is strengthened."
"But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security."
"Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "
Where's Obama's criticism. If he really commits to creating peace, surely he must have something to say about Israel's actions? Well, he does, he calls it self-defense and has promised to always help them with that.
I don't have a problem with a commitment to Israel's security. We do have a bond. However
You also recall that Mr. Obama spoke about the need to open a dialog with Iran to begin healing. He was ambushed by just about everyone. So he has stopped talking because Americans are still wounded from 9-11. Americans are badly misinformed about Iran, as well at the entire Middle East and its people.
The answer is to open dialog. The answer is to include all Middle Eastern leaders in the effort for finding a solution.
I believe Israel to be the most important issues that faces this presidency, and I think Obama is up to the task. i don't think he has unconditional love for Israel. he pledged support and security for its people.
Never has our counry done so much damage to relations with that part of he world than in the last 8 years. Mr. Obama was a young senator, then an underdog candidate. His words did not have the clout they will have come January 20th. He is wise not to undermine the current administration's foreign policy as that could be dangerous.
Mr Obama's intelligence and communication skills will serve us well, if he can make that region feel part of the world commnity and come to the table and work for a lasting peace.
Iran wants a lasting peace
Palistinians want a lasting peace
Israel wants a lasting peace
If we are able to work together - we wil find a solution. Barack Obama is well equiped and eager to make that happen.
Due to high tensions and 8 years of brutally ignorant foreign policy, it has become impossible for him to talk about Arabs as though they were civilized or even equal to us.
The ball will be his soon, and that will change.
that is the Change you will see. There will still be politics and comprimise. However, if we can somehow become partners in world affairs with the nations of the world, it will prove how ignorant it was to turn Iraq into the hell it is... and to subject real people to such brutality and indifference.
Yes, he has been silent. A great number of Americans do not consider the other side of this arguement to be worthy of consideration. they will receive some education in the coming months. They too will be treated with respect, and they too will come around and perhaps be willing to participat as well in he process.
These assumptions based in the inaction of a candidate or a President elect are premature.. made with a very small amount of necessary information.
let the man become president, and see what he does.
He has done nothing in my view that shows dishonesty, or any will to continue he imperialistic violent dictatorship of the last eight years. He must tread softly - win the respect of a world very badly divided in every direction.
so far I think he has been brilliant and I expect that to continue.
Due to high tensions and 8 years of brutally ignorant foreign policy, it has become impossible for him to talk about Arabs as though they were civilized or even equal to us.
hmmmmm....8 years??? It's more like 40 if we're talking Middle East policy.
agreed.. but it seems to grow worse year after year.
Well of course it gets worse year after year. The longer the U.S. supports the Israeli occupation, the more pissed off people in the Middle East will get.
I guess my point is that we shouldn't talk about this situation like it's brain surgery. It's not complicated at all. It's not about politics or "working together" or compromise....it's about the U.S. pulling the plug on unconditional aid to Israel and forcing them to make a 2-state settlement. That's it. Politicians like Obama talk about it like we have no leverage on the situation....like we have to go over there and plead with Israeli & Palestinian leadership to stop the violence. It's not like that at all.
Well of course it gets worse year after year. The longer the U.S. supports the Israeli occupation, the more pissed off people in the Middle East will get.
I guess my point is that we shouldn't talk about this situation like it's brain surgery. It's not complicated at all. It's not about politics or "working together" or compromise....it's about the U.S. pulling the plug on unconditional aid to Israel and forcing them to make a 2-state settlement. That's it. Politicians like Obama talk about it like we have no leverage on the situation....like we have to go over there and plead with Israeli & Palestinian leadership to stop the violence. It's not like that at all.
"Force them?"
the believe that we can force people to do things is what got us into this situation. That is the George Bush mentality. We have caused the deaths of millions in Iraq, and we still haven't been able to force them to do anything.
the believe that we can force people to do things is what got us into this situation. That is the George Bush mentality. We have caused the deaths of millions in Iraq, and we still haven't been able to force them to do anything.
That's not a comparable situation. We aren't the sole supporters of Iraqis (nor the insurgents) like we are of Israel. So of course we can't easily force them to do anything.
But if a kid is living at home with his parents rent-free, and he's not looking for a job, and his parents want him to get a job, all they have to do is say "hey, get a job, or you can't live here anymore". The kid will get a job, unless there's someone else he can run to for aid. In Israel's case, they have no one else to run to, so they'd be forced to cut the crap and make a settlement.
I don't have a problem with a commitment to Israel's security. We do have a bond. However
You also recall that Mr. Obama spoke about the need to open a dialog with Iran to begin healing. He was ambushed by just about everyone. So he has stopped talking because Americans are still wounded from 9-11. Americans are badly misinformed about Iran, as well at the entire Middle East and its people.
.
Tell me about this 'bond'??
Also, Obama just repeats the propaganda about Iran, he is helping to misinform the people.
btw that 'americans are still wounded from 9/11' is just an excuse, dont use it.
Also, Obama just repeats the propaganda about Iran, he is helping to misinform the people.
btw that 'americans are still wounded from 9/11' is just an excuse, dont use it.
the Bond? Well, we were part of the brilliant idea to clear people out of the holy land and give it to the Jews. More importantly, they are human beings, and we have a bond with all human beings.. at least as I see it.
9/11 as an excuse... well, voters are sooo wrong on things like Iran.. they WERE wounded, and they here Hijacked. Yes, ignorance and hatred played a part. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.. if they were not lied to, and abused.. perhaps they would have reacted differently. I hope they will be given another chance.
Can you really expect mainstream people to back Nader? He too, has an agenda, and like anyone else is as pompus as can be-or couldn't beleive himself.
His claim to fame is killing off the Chevy Corvair for having a swing axle design that was, in fact changed in 1965. Hmmmmmm I wonder where Detroit got cold feet about economical cars? Right or wrong, can you not expect reprecussions about this? So, going into the 1970s, cars became more bloated due to increased safety features( not that safety features are bad in any way), then 5mph bumpers along with emission controls at the same time( era anyway) . While much of this work in Unsafe at Any Speed did help vehicle safety, the long term effects brought us the horrible cars of the 1970s. Incidentally, the Asian makers were able to watch this and learn-suffering none of the bad press-then they make equally unsafe vehicles with superior engieneering and quality control...how? Well , by stealing amny ideas ( from the Germans mainly) costs of R&D are signifigantly reduced.
So, Nader has played his part in the demise of the US auto industry as well as Detroit itself.
No, I have not payed a lot of attention to Nader anymore than I do to Al Gore or Charles Manson.
Regulators issued twenty standards for passenger cars by the initial deadline, including rules requiring installation of seat belts for all occupants, impact-absorbing steering columns, padded dashboards, safety glass, and dual braking systems.
so these things are what broke the auto industry??
are you serious?
i mean....really???
where did you get such neo-liberal propaganda??
i'm sure they spend a bit more on advertising and bonuses for their execs
and which of those 'horrible' things listed would you be willing to take out of your car? the padded dashboard? the -absorbing steering columns?
also, the 2009 volkswagon jetta is supposed to get 60mpg, i guess building a safe car didn't scare them away from making a more fuel efficient one, if ford and gm want to have 'cold feet' in making something that makes more sense then maybe they deserve to fail.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
the Bond? Well, we were part of the brilliant idea to clear people out of the holy land and give it to the Jews. More importantly, they are human beings, and we have a bond with all human beings.. at least as I see it.
Obama is specifically talking about a bond between the US and Israel, not something as general as a bond with all human beings.
I have to admit, I was worried. I am enjoying the prospect of a president I can respect. Is this the worst thing you can find on this man? Because, in my view, this is at worst a very small slip, and really not even that. He said, the only legislation that "I passed". He not only passed it, he wrote it. It was sent back to him numerous times and he "weakened" in in comprimise or it would not have passed. in the end it didn't pass at all.. and noone discusses those that voted against it or why, or what the comprimise was... only unsupported speculation that he chose to do it for campaign contributions.. which I believe is not the case. More likely, it was opposed by more senators than he believed he was able to convince.
sure this is not a shining moment for him... but I don't think "Lied" is a fair charactorizaton. His bill failed. thousands of bills fail. A Freshman Congressman fights and loses and learns.
His point was about his possition, he was not bragging about accomplishment.
but he told the girl it did things it in fact did NOT do and he also told her it passed when it obviously never did, right? how is that not a lie??
if someone asks 'what did you do about the dry cleaning?' and i say oh, i picked it up and i obviously didn't i lied
i also posted an article about how obama would have nothing to do w/ certain bills at all then when they were finally done w/ it and having the press conference would be held to announce it suddenly he would show up and talk like he was so involved in it! but, the obama supporters simply said 'everyone lies on their resume' and yeah, some of these are small but don't give me this 'change' shit
lies like:
"Today as the Democratic nominee for president, I am announcing that going forward, the Democratic National Committee will uphold the same standard — we will not take a dime from Washington lobbyists," Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Bristol, Va.
"We are going to change how Washington works. They will not run our party. They will not run our White House. They will not drown out the views of the American people."
or is not a lie b/c he said 'washington lobbyists'?
"It's a choice between debating John McCain about lobbying reform with a nominee who's taken more money from lobbyists than he has, or doing it with a campaign that hasn't taken a dime of their money because we've been funded by you the American people."
really? but you took more corporate money and money from lobbyists than anyone, obama
"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over," Obama said, bringing the crowd to its feet.
"I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists -- and I have won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not get a job in my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president."
oops, i mean they won't 'dominate' my white house
anyway, here's some of those links about the nuclear industry
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.
Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”
“I just did that last year,” he said, to murmurs of approval.
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.
how is that not a lie from what he told that girl??
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
but he told the girl it did things it in fact did NOT do and he also told her it passed when it obviously never did, right? how is that not a lie??
if someone asks 'what did you do about the dry cleaning?' and i say oh, i picked it up and i obviously didn't i lied
i also posted an article about how obama would have nothing to do w/ certain bills at all then when they were finally done w/ it and having the press conference would be held to announce it suddenly he would show up and talk like he was so involved in it! but, the obama supporters simply said 'everyone lies on their resume' and yeah, some of these are small but don't give me this 'change' shit
lies like:
"Today as the Democratic nominee for president, I am announcing that going forward, the Democratic National Committee will uphold the same standard — we will not take a dime from Washington lobbyists," Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Bristol, Va.
"We are going to change how Washington works. They will not run our party. They will not run our White House. They will not drown out the views of the American people."
or is not a lie b/c he said 'washington lobbyists'?
"It's a choice between debating John McCain about lobbying reform with a nominee who's taken more money from lobbyists than he has, or doing it with a campaign that hasn't taken a dime of their money because we've been funded by you the American people."
really? but you took more corporate money and money from lobbyists than anyone, obama
"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over," Obama said, bringing the crowd to its feet.
"I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists -- and I have won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not get a job in my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president."
oops, i mean they won't 'dominate' my white house
anyway, here's some of those links about the nuclear industry
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.
Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”
“I just did that last year,” he said, to murmurs of approval.
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.
how is that not a lie from what he told that girl??
staying on the nuclear thing... had he said:
I wrote a bill requiring these facilities to report any accidents and "PASSED" it through congress.. it was not passed.. in the end I had to make concessions in order to make some progress. I will continue to work on safe alternate energy....
that would have conveyed the exact message he conveyed.
he was tired and used many less words.. getting bombarded on a campaign is hard work.. that is understandable
his message to the girl was not deceiving .. therefore I think it unfair to charactorize it as a lie.
How about "Iran's president has threatened to wipe Israel off the map."
one thing at a time, I am old. Did Obama repeat that line that has been reported thousands of times by our government, our media and millions of americans? If so, I am not pleased.. either he hadn't done his homework on that line.. or he was pandering. However, as I have said, hatred of the middle east runs very deep in our country.. the transition must be slow and steady..
before I am not pleased however, do you have a video of his saying that? I need context.
one thing at a time, I am old. Did Obama repeat that line that has been reported thousands of times by our government, our media and millions of americans? If so, I am not pleased.. either he hadn't done his homework on that line.. or he was pandering. However, as I have said, hatred of the middle east runs very deep in our country.. the transition must be slow and steady..
before I am not pleased however, do you have a video of his saying that? I need context.
"The Iranian regime supports violent extremists and challenges us across the region. It pursues a nuclear capability that could spark a dangerous arms race and raise the prospect of a transfer of nuclear know-how to terrorists. Its president denies the Holocaust and threatens to wipe Israel off the map. The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat."
You forgot an option, he either didn't do his homework, which is dangerous because this little mistranslated line could be regarded as a reason to go to war, or he was pandering, which is worse than lying and cannot be excused, or the option you forgot; he used it deliberately.
"The Iranian regime supports violent extremists and challenges us across the region. It pursues a nuclear capability that could spark a dangerous arms race and raise the prospect of a transfer of nuclear know-how to terrorists. Its president denies the Holocaust and threatens to wipe Israel off the map. The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat."
You forgot an option, he either didn't do his homework, which is dangerous because this little mistranslated line could be regarded as a reason to go to war, or he was pandering, which is worse than lying and cannot be excused, or the option you forgot; he used it deliberately.
I remember seeing him say that. I cringed then and again now. Here is how I reconciled it. And you may not like it... but at least to some extent it is true.
I was shocked by the actions of first term W. I was never more wrong about people when I learned America reelected him. Americans have been trasformed into something that can support a narrow minded, inarticulate man as long as he shows off our beat weapons on those arabs.
in order to be elected and take control of this country and turn in around, a man needs the votes of these misinformed people.
On the Iran front, he showed he wants to begin a relationship and meet with him.
I believe what he did was inded to deliberately repeat what he know to be a bad but universally accepted translation to quell the fear that he was weak and would let those filthy arabs walk all over him and make our country weak.
In fact, I believe if he exposed the mistranslation, and continued to encourage talks with Iran. he would not be president today.
so yes, he lied to get the job.
I believe his intentions to be just and honest. He will again be fased with situations where it will be tactically best to mislead. If he is not willing to do that... he can not handle the job of balancing so many competing interests.
I find his motives consistent.. his philosophy consistent and his sincerity, integrity and effort to be far and away greater than any president in my lifetime.
i am ok with what he did in this respect.
I do not tolerate liars. I don't see his as a liar.. I see him as a leader. I will watch closely.. because there is a very fine line.. and on this issue, when he becomes president, he will right the wrong and do so quickly. We will see if that happens.
another thing, Obama supported the Israeli attack on Lebanon and essentially it's war crimes. He also said that it was Hezbollah that started the conflict, that is pure propaganda.
But you give him another pass, right abu?
He was wrong about that, wrong about Iran, wrong about Russia, wrong about Palestine.
But you have 'hope'....
You seem to just have excuses for him, but that's why you have so much 'hope', you are not worried about facts. You have 'hope'.
He says one things, acts one way, but you 'hope' he does something else.
I remember seeing him say that. I cringed then and again now. Here is how I reconciled it. And you may not like it... but at least to some extent it is true.
I was shocked by the actions of first term W. I was never more wrong about people when I learned America reelected him. Americans have been trasformed into something that can support a narrow minded, inarticulate man as long as he shows off our beat weapons on those arabs.
in order to be elected and take control of this country and turn in around, a man needs the votes of these misinformed people.
On the Iran front, he showed he wants to begin a relationship and meet with him.
I believe what he did was inded to deliberately repeat what he know to be a bad but universally accepted translation to quell the fear that he was weak and would let those filthy arabs walk all over him and make our country weak.
In fact, I believe if he exposed the mistranslation, and continued to encourage talks with Iran. he would not be president today.
so yes, he lied to get the job.
I believe his intentions to be just and honest. He will again be fased with situations where it will be tactically best to mislead. If he is not willing to do that... he can not handle the job of balancing so many competing interests.
I find his motives consistent.. his philosophy consistent and his sincerity, integrity and effort to be far and away greater than any president in my lifetime.
i am ok with what he did in this respect.
I do not tolerate liars. I don't see his as a liar.. I see him as a leader. I will watch closely.. because there is a very fine line.. and on this issue, when he becomes president, he will right the wrong and do so quickly. We will see if that happens.
You're right I don't like it And I'm also not sure if it's true.
I don't know how you can admit he lied and then say you don't regard it as a lie. You don't tolerate liars, but you make an exception for Obama.
another thing, Obama supported the Israeli attack on Lebanon and essentially it's war crimes. He also said that it was Hezbollah that started the conflict, that is pure propaganda.
But you give him another pass, right abu?
He was wrong about that, wrong about Iran, wrong about Russia, wrong about Palestine.
But you have 'hope'....
You seem to just have excuses for him, but that's why you have so much 'hope', you are not worried about facts. You have 'hope'.
He says one things, acts one way, but you 'hope' he does something else.
You know what else that's called? dēlūsiō
careful hannity.. He wasn't wrong about Iran or russia or Israel....
Comments
What about all that propaganda he talks about Iran? His support of the Patriot Act (Lite or diet, what you want to call it)...plus the whole Russia/Georgia thing. I mean how backwards he is on that one.
You respect a person like that?
Yes or no.....?
Stop "Fox Newsing" him Mr Brian. You Know he blindly supports Israel, or you got some facts to share?
huh?....
Answer the question, do you really respect a person like that?
I don't see "Blind Support " of anything. I don't consider brief comments from a President Elect in the final days of his campaign as representative of his all encompassing views on Russia, and I have not heard or read anything from him regarding the patriot act. Frankly, I am not sure I am completely against the patriot act, but surely the way it was used... Many voted to give the office of the President the flexibility to provide security of our nation.. we had a leader that had other interests and comprimised our security as well as our freedoms. From that we learn that some new safeguards and accountability need to be added. I am not sure that I fundimentally disagree with the intentions of the patriot act.
"I want you to know that today I'll be speaking from my heart, and as a true friend of Israel. And I know that when I visit with AIPAC, I am among friends. Good friends. Friends who share my strong commitment to make sure that the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever."
"the bond between Israel and the United States is rooted in more than our shared national interests — it's rooted in the shared values and shared stories of our people. And as president, I will work with you to ensure that this bond is strengthened."
"But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security."
"Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "
Where's Obama's criticism. If he really commits to creating peace, surely he must have something to say about Israel's actions? Well, he does, he calls it self-defense and has promised to always help them with that.
naděje umírá poslední
His claim to fame is killing off the Chevy Corvair for having a swing axle design that was, in fact changed in 1965. Hmmmmmm I wonder where Detroit got cold feet about economical cars? Right or wrong, can you not expect reprecussions about this? So, going into the 1970s, cars became more bloated due to increased safety features( not that safety features are bad in any way), then 5mph bumpers along with emission controls at the same time( era anyway) . While much of this work in Unsafe at Any Speed did help vehicle safety, the long term effects brought us the horrible cars of the 1970s. Incidentally, the Asian makers were able to watch this and learn-suffering none of the bad press-then they make equally unsafe vehicles with superior engieneering and quality control...how? Well , by stealing amny ideas ( from the Germans mainly) costs of R&D are signifigantly reduced.
So, Nader has played his part in the demise of the US auto industry as well as Detroit itself.
No, I have not payed a lot of attention to Nader anymore than I do to Al Gore or Charles Manson.
I don't have a problem with a commitment to Israel's security. We do have a bond. However
You also recall that Mr. Obama spoke about the need to open a dialog with Iran to begin healing. He was ambushed by just about everyone. So he has stopped talking because Americans are still wounded from 9-11. Americans are badly misinformed about Iran, as well at the entire Middle East and its people.
The answer is to open dialog. The answer is to include all Middle Eastern leaders in the effort for finding a solution.
I believe Israel to be the most important issues that faces this presidency, and I think Obama is up to the task. i don't think he has unconditional love for Israel. he pledged support and security for its people.
Never has our counry done so much damage to relations with that part of he world than in the last 8 years. Mr. Obama was a young senator, then an underdog candidate. His words did not have the clout they will have come January 20th. He is wise not to undermine the current administration's foreign policy as that could be dangerous.
Mr Obama's intelligence and communication skills will serve us well, if he can make that region feel part of the world commnity and come to the table and work for a lasting peace.
Iran wants a lasting peace
Palistinians want a lasting peace
Israel wants a lasting peace
If we are able to work together - we wil find a solution. Barack Obama is well equiped and eager to make that happen.
Due to high tensions and 8 years of brutally ignorant foreign policy, it has become impossible for him to talk about Arabs as though they were civilized or even equal to us.
The ball will be his soon, and that will change.
that is the Change you will see. There will still be politics and comprimise. However, if we can somehow become partners in world affairs with the nations of the world, it will prove how ignorant it was to turn Iraq into the hell it is... and to subject real people to such brutality and indifference.
Yes, he has been silent. A great number of Americans do not consider the other side of this arguement to be worthy of consideration. they will receive some education in the coming months. They too will be treated with respect, and they too will come around and perhaps be willing to participat as well in he process.
These assumptions based in the inaction of a candidate or a President elect are premature.. made with a very small amount of necessary information.
let the man become president, and see what he does.
He has done nothing in my view that shows dishonesty, or any will to continue he imperialistic violent dictatorship of the last eight years. He must tread softly - win the respect of a world very badly divided in every direction.
so far I think he has been brilliant and I expect that to continue.
Anyway, I can only hope you're right. The only thing is from what I've seen and heard I cannot come to the same conclusion as you.
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agreed.. but it seems to grow worse year after year.
I guess my point is that we shouldn't talk about this situation like it's brain surgery. It's not complicated at all. It's not about politics or "working together" or compromise....it's about the U.S. pulling the plug on unconditional aid to Israel and forcing them to make a 2-state settlement. That's it. Politicians like Obama talk about it like we have no leverage on the situation....like we have to go over there and plead with Israeli & Palestinian leadership to stop the violence. It's not like that at all.
"Force them?"
the believe that we can force people to do things is what got us into this situation. That is the George Bush mentality. We have caused the deaths of millions in Iraq, and we still haven't been able to force them to do anything.
But if a kid is living at home with his parents rent-free, and he's not looking for a job, and his parents want him to get a job, all they have to do is say "hey, get a job, or you can't live here anymore". The kid will get a job, unless there's someone else he can run to for aid. In Israel's case, they have no one else to run to, so they'd be forced to cut the crap and make a settlement.
Tell me about this 'bond'??
Also, Obama just repeats the propaganda about Iran, he is helping to misinform the people.
btw that 'americans are still wounded from 9/11' is just an excuse, dont use it.
the Bond? Well, we were part of the brilliant idea to clear people out of the holy land and give it to the Jews. More importantly, they are human beings, and we have a bond with all human beings.. at least as I see it.
9/11 as an excuse... well, voters are sooo wrong on things like Iran.. they WERE wounded, and they here Hijacked. Yes, ignorance and hatred played a part. I have to give them the benefit of the doubt.. if they were not lied to, and abused.. perhaps they would have reacted differently. I hope they will be given another chance.
the long term effects of.......???
http://www.answers.com/topic/national-traffic-and-motor-vehicle-safety-act
Regulators issued twenty standards for passenger cars by the initial deadline, including rules requiring installation of seat belts for all occupants, impact-absorbing steering columns, padded dashboards, safety glass, and dual braking systems.
so these things are what broke the auto industry??
are you serious?
i mean....really???
where did you get such neo-liberal propaganda??
i'm sure they spend a bit more on advertising and bonuses for their execs
and which of those 'horrible' things listed would you be willing to take out of your car? the padded dashboard? the -absorbing steering columns?
also, the 2009 volkswagon jetta is supposed to get 60mpg, i guess building a safe car didn't scare them away from making a more fuel efficient one, if ford and gm want to have 'cold feet' in making something that makes more sense then maybe they deserve to fail.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Obama is specifically talking about a bond between the US and Israel, not something as general as a bond with all human beings.
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but he told the girl it did things it in fact did NOT do and he also told her it passed when it obviously never did, right? how is that not a lie??
if someone asks 'what did you do about the dry cleaning?' and i say oh, i picked it up and i obviously didn't i lied
i also posted an article about how obama would have nothing to do w/ certain bills at all then when they were finally done w/ it and having the press conference would be held to announce it suddenly he would show up and talk like he was so involved in it! but, the obama supporters simply said 'everyone lies on their resume' and yeah, some of these are small but don't give me this 'change' shit
lies like:
"Today as the Democratic nominee for president, I am announcing that going forward, the Democratic National Committee will uphold the same standard — we will not take a dime from Washington lobbyists," Obama said at a town-hall meeting in Bristol, Va.
"We are going to change how Washington works. They will not run our party. They will not run our White House. They will not drown out the views of the American people."
or is not a lie b/c he said 'washington lobbyists'?
"It's a choice between debating John McCain about lobbying reform with a nominee who's taken more money from lobbyists than he has, or doing it with a campaign that hasn't taken a dime of their money because we've been funded by you the American people."
really? but you took more corporate money and money from lobbyists than anyone, obama
"I am in this race to tell the corporate lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda in Washington are over," Obama said, bringing the crowd to its feet.
"I have done more than any other candidate in this race to take on lobbyists -- and I have won. They have not funded my campaign, they will not get a job in my White House, and they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I am president."
oops, i mean they won't 'dominate' my white house
anyway, here's some of those links about the nuclear industry
http://www.indypendent.org/2008/02/27/1504/
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/02/meet-barack-obama-the-nuclear-industrys-golden-child/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?_r=3&ex=1202706000&en=9b90278942ace89a&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
When residents in Illinois voiced outrage two years ago upon learning that the Exelon Corporation had not disclosed radioactive leaks at one of its nuclear plants, the state’s freshman senator, Barack Obama, took up their cause.
Mr. Obama scolded Exelon and federal regulators for inaction and introduced a bill to require all plant owners to notify state and local authorities immediately of even small leaks. He has boasted of it on the campaign trail, telling a crowd in Iowa in December that it was “the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed.”
“I just did that last year,” he said, to murmurs of approval.
A close look at the path his legislation took tells a very different story. While he initially fought to advance his bill, even holding up a presidential nomination to try to force a hearing on it, Mr. Obama eventually rewrote it to reflect changes sought by Senate Republicans, Exelon and nuclear regulators. The new bill removed language mandating prompt reporting and simply offered guidance to regulators, whom it charged with addressing the issue of unreported leaks.
how is that not a lie from what he told that girl??
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
have you watched the thumbs_down webcast yet?
doing
joy division/new order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08_2eTj3wsA
the smiths
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtmS2ePSSdU
and bjork (the songs he's talking about not knowing are from the turns they took dj'ing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wLk0oXyChU
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Yep.
----
Abu, do you have a breaking point? Whats enough for you?
I think you are going to find excuses no matter what.
staying on the nuclear thing... had he said:
I wrote a bill requiring these facilities to report any accidents and "PASSED" it through congress.. it was not passed.. in the end I had to make concessions in order to make some progress. I will continue to work on safe alternate energy....
that would have conveyed the exact message he conveyed.
he was tired and used many less words.. getting bombarded on a campaign is hard work.. that is understandable
his message to the girl was not deceiving .. therefore I think it unfair to charactorize it as a lie.
How about "Iran's president has threatened to wipe Israel off the map."
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one thing at a time, I am old. Did Obama repeat that line that has been reported thousands of times by our government, our media and millions of americans? If so, I am not pleased.. either he hadn't done his homework on that line.. or he was pandering. However, as I have said, hatred of the middle east runs very deep in our country.. the transition must be slow and steady..
before I am not pleased however, do you have a video of his saying that? I need context.
"The Iranian regime supports violent extremists and challenges us across the region. It pursues a nuclear capability that could spark a dangerous arms race and raise the prospect of a transfer of nuclear know-how to terrorists. Its president denies the Holocaust and threatens to wipe Israel off the map. The danger from Iran is grave, it is real, and my goal will be to eliminate this threat."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=91150432
video: http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=0cOJNC2EuJw (21:58)
You forgot an option, he either didn't do his homework, which is dangerous because this little mistranslated line could be regarded as a reason to go to war, or he was pandering, which is worse than lying and cannot be excused, or the option you forgot; he used it deliberately.
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I remember seeing him say that. I cringed then and again now. Here is how I reconciled it. And you may not like it... but at least to some extent it is true.
I was shocked by the actions of first term W. I was never more wrong about people when I learned America reelected him. Americans have been trasformed into something that can support a narrow minded, inarticulate man as long as he shows off our beat weapons on those arabs.
in order to be elected and take control of this country and turn in around, a man needs the votes of these misinformed people.
On the Iran front, he showed he wants to begin a relationship and meet with him.
I believe what he did was inded to deliberately repeat what he know to be a bad but universally accepted translation to quell the fear that he was weak and would let those filthy arabs walk all over him and make our country weak.
In fact, I believe if he exposed the mistranslation, and continued to encourage talks with Iran. he would not be president today.
so yes, he lied to get the job.
I believe his intentions to be just and honest. He will again be fased with situations where it will be tactically best to mislead. If he is not willing to do that... he can not handle the job of balancing so many competing interests.
I find his motives consistent.. his philosophy consistent and his sincerity, integrity and effort to be far and away greater than any president in my lifetime.
i am ok with what he did in this respect.
I do not tolerate liars. I don't see his as a liar.. I see him as a leader. I will watch closely.. because there is a very fine line.. and on this issue, when he becomes president, he will right the wrong and do so quickly. We will see if that happens.
But you give him another pass, right abu?
He was wrong about that, wrong about Iran, wrong about Russia, wrong about Palestine.
But you have 'hope'....
You seem to just have excuses for him, but that's why you have so much 'hope', you are not worried about facts. You have 'hope'.
He says one things, acts one way, but you 'hope' he does something else.
You know what else that's called? dēlūsiō
You're right I don't like it
I don't know how you can admit he lied and then say you don't regard it as a lie. You don't tolerate liars, but you make an exception for Obama.
Like you said, we'll see...
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careful hannity.. He wasn't wrong about Iran or russia or Israel....
If I could be
who you wanted
if I could be
who you wanted
all the time.....
Fuck that was creepy... I just posted this song on the AET and when I read your post Thom was just singing these lines...
Whoa.
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