a black man's opinion of Ralph Nader

Abuskedti

El_Kabong wrote:

i don't think he's saying they ARE negative, just that b/c someone is intelligent and a good speaker it doesn't necessarily make it a positive, it depends on what s/he does w/ it

for instance he gave an example of obama using pro-war propagandaof an untrue nature

Come on Mr Kabong. Mr. Obama's car can also be a negative if he uses it to hit children at a crosswalk. If you are eager to find fault with the new President, at least afford him the opportunity to make some mistakes - because he certainly will.

I don't mean any disrespect, but your guitar could be used for evil as well.

El_Kabong

Abuskedti wrote:

Come on Mr Kabong. Mr. Obama's car can also be a negative if he uses it to hit children at a crosswalk. If you are eager to find fault with the new President, at least afford him the opportunity to make some mistakes - because he certainly will.

I don't mean any disrespect, but your guitar could be used for evil as well.

i don't think anyone here was eager to find fault. i think collin was only pointing out just b/c someone is intelligent and a good speaker it doesn't mean they will do positive things w/ it.

i don't know what the exact quote was offhand, there's clips of his talk in a thread i think roland posted a few days ago. and i know he mentioned ppl 'wanting to wipe isreal off the map' which is a lie as that was never said, at least not by that nut in iran

i had links to an article about obama and the nuclear bill of his and a youtube clip of him at a town hall meeting thing where a girl asked about his stance on nuclear power and obama lied, anyway, i had it all on a blog on myspace but i'm having troulbe getting to it right now

decides2dream

El_Kabong wrote:

i don't think he's saying they ARE negative, just that b/c someone is intelligent and a good speaker it doesn't necessarily make it a positive, it depends on what s/he does w/ it

for instance he gave an example of obama using pro-war propagandaof an untrue nature

well it's my understanding that he IS saying that. that being intelligent or a great communicator is just as good as it is bad. my opinion is being intelligent and a good speaker is always a positive, but it certainly can be used negatively, but it in no way infringes on the idea that the traits themselves are good to have. if i am mistaken in my inference, i will readily admit to my misinterpretation.



and i still haven't managed to view the clip. i did actually come online briefly at home here last night...but i forgot. however, even without viewing, i can certainly see that many people of all walks of life with all different skintones can likeappreciaterespect/admire ralph nader. i se no reason why they couldn't.

El_Kabong

here's some links

NBC exposes Obama's campaign funding ties to nuclear power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhISssMxnY

here's obama asked about his stance on nuclear power, pay attention to what he said he did and in regards to his bill, how he says he passed it and what it did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R52J2D5QQU

here's a story about how what he said in the video above is not true
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?hp

Obama Weakened Nuclear Safety Bill After Consulting With Firm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/03/obama-weakened-nuclear-sa_n_84651.html

the blog had a better article about nuclear power and the hundreds of thousands he's taken from the industry

decides2dream

El_Kabong wrote:

here's some links

NBC exposes Obama's campaign funding ties to nuclear power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhISssMxnY

here's obama asked about his stance on nuclear power, pay attention to what he said he did and in regards to his bill, how he says he passed it and what it did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R52J2D5QQU

here's a story about how what he said in the video above is not true
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?hp

Obama Weakened Nuclear Safety Bill After Consulting With Firm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/03/obama-weakened-nuclear-sa_n_84651.html

the blog had a better article about nuclear power and the hundreds of thousands he's taken from the industry

i think i missed something somewhere?
what does this have to do with one black man's opinion of ralph nader?
just curious.

El_Kabong

decides2dream wrote:

i think i missed something somewhere?
what does this have to do with one black man's opinion of ralph nader?
just curious.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=6011401&postcount=12

decides2dream

El_Kabong wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=6011401&postcount=12

aha...thanks, gotcha. i knew i must've missed a step in there somewhere.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

My interpretation on this is that Nader like so many others, is thoroughly frustrated, and plain tired of being politically correct anymore on this whole current political structure issue from top to bottom.

I think he was referring to how he is going to be treated, rather than how he is going to behave and act personally...more of how he is going to be forced to behave, rather, by those above and around him.

Was he speaking directly to Obama is the question. I don't think he was. It think it was a third person reference, and his terminology was directed towards the public at large, and the powers that be.

Abuskedti

El_Kabong wrote:

here's some links

NBC exposes Obama's campaign funding ties to nuclear power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhISssMxnY

here's obama asked about his stance on nuclear power, pay attention to what he said he did and in regards to his bill, how he says he passed it and what it did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R52J2D5QQU

here's a story about how what he said in the video above is not true
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?hp

Obama Weakened Nuclear Safety Bill After Consulting With Firm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/03/obama-weakened-nuclear-sa_n_84651.html

the blog had a better article about nuclear power and the hundreds of thousands he's taken from the industry

Thank you my brother, can't look at them now, but will get a chance this weekend. Have a great weekend

Abuskedti

El_Kabong wrote:

here's some links

NBC exposes Obama's campaign funding ties to nuclear power
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqhISssMxnY

here's obama asked about his stance on nuclear power, pay attention to what he said he did and in regards to his bill, how he says he passed it and what it did
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R52J2D5QQU

here's a story about how what he said in the video above is not true
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/03/us/politics/03exelon.html?hp

Obama Weakened Nuclear Safety Bill After Consulting With Firm
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/03/obama-weakened-nuclear-sa_n_84651.html

the blog had a better article about nuclear power and the hundreds of thousands he's taken from the industry

I have to admit, I was worried. I am enjoying the prospect of a president I can respect. Is this the worst thing you can find on this man? Because, in my view, this is at worst a very small slip, and really not even that. He said, the only legislation that "I passed". He not only passed it, he wrote it. It was sent back to him numerous times and he "weakened" in in comprimise or it would not have passed. in the end it didn't pass at all.. and noone discusses those that voted against it or why, or what the comprimise was... only unsupported speculation that he chose to do it for campaign contributions.. which I believe is not the case. More likely, it was opposed by more senators than he believed he was able to convince.

sure this is not a shining moment for him... but I don't think "Lied" is a fair charactorizaton. His bill failed. thousands of bills fail. A Freshman Congressman fights and loses and learns.

His point was about his possition, he was not bragging about accomplishment.

MrBrian

How about his blind support of Israel? Never speaking about the occupation?
What about all that propaganda he talks about Iran? His support of the Patriot Act (Lite or diet, what you want to call it)...plus the whole Russia/Georgia thing. I mean how backwards he is on that one.

You respect a person like that?

Yes or no.....?

Abuskedti

MrBrian wrote:

How about his blind support of Israel? Never speaking about the occupation?
What about all that propaganda he talks about Iran? His support of the Patriot Act (Lite or diet, what you want to call it)...plus the whole Russia/Georgia thing. I mean how backwards he is on that one.

You respect a person like that?

Yes or no.....?

Stop "Fox Newsing" him Mr Brian. You Know he blindly supports Israel, or you got some facts to share?

MrBrian

Abuskedti wrote:

Stop "Fox Newsing" him Mr Brian. You Know he blindly supports Israel, or you got some facts to share?

huh?....

Answer the question, do you really respect a person like that?

Abuskedti

MrBrian wrote:

huh?....

Answer the question, do you really respect a person like that?

I don't see "Blind Support " of anything. I don't consider brief comments from a President Elect in the final days of his campaign as representative of his all encompassing views on Russia, and I have not heard or read anything from him regarding the patriot act. Frankly, I am not sure I am completely against the patriot act, but surely the way it was used... Many voted to give the office of the President the flexibility to provide security of our nation.. we had a leader that had other interests and comprimised our security as well as our freedoms. From that we learn that some new safeguards and accountability need to be added. I am not sure that I fundimentally disagree with the intentions of the patriot act.

Collin

Abuskedti wrote:

I don't see "Blind Support " of anything. I don't consider brief comments from a President Elect in the final days of his campaign as representative of his all encompassing views on Russia, and I have not heard or read anything from him regarding the patriot act. Frankly, I am not sure I am completely against the patriot act, but surely the way it was used... Many voted to give the office of the President the flexibility to provide security of our nation.. we had a leader that had other interests and comprimised our security as well as our freedoms. From that we learn that some new safeguards and accountability need to be added. I am not sure that I fundimentally disagree with the intentions of the patriot act.

"I want you to know that today I'll be speaking from my heart, and as a true friend of Israel. And I know that when I visit with AIPAC, I am among friends. Good friends. Friends who share my strong commitment to make sure that the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever."

"the bond between Israel and the United States is rooted in more than our shared national interests — it's rooted in the shared values and shared stories of our people. And as president, I will work with you to ensure that this bond is strengthened."

"But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security."

"Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "

Where's Obama's criticism. If he really commits to creating peace, surely he must have something to say about Israel's actions? Well, he does, he calls it self-defense and has promised to always help them with that.

Maicojames

Can you really expect mainstream people to back Nader? He too, has an agenda, and like anyone else is as pompus as can be-or couldn't beleive himself.

His claim to fame is killing off the Chevy Corvair for having a swing axle design that was, in fact changed in 1965. Hmmmmmm I wonder where Detroit got cold feet about economical cars? Right or wrong, can you not expect reprecussions about this? So, going into the 1970s, cars became more bloated due to increased safety features( not that safety features are bad in any way), then 5mph bumpers along with emission controls at the same time( era anyway) . While much of this work in Unsafe at Any Speed did help vehicle safety, the long term effects brought us the horrible cars of the 1970s. Incidentally, the Asian makers were able to watch this and learn-suffering none of the bad press-then they make equally unsafe vehicles with superior engieneering and quality control...how? Well , by stealing amny ideas ( from the Germans mainly) costs of R&D are signifigantly reduced.
So, Nader has played his part in the demise of the US auto industry as well as Detroit itself.

No, I have not payed a lot of attention to Nader anymore than I do to Al Gore or Charles Manson.

Abuskedti

Collin wrote:

"I want you to know that today I'll be speaking from my heart, and as a true friend of Israel. And I know that when I visit with AIPAC, I am among friends. Good friends. Friends who share my strong commitment to make sure that the bond between the United States and Israel is unbreakable today, tomorrow and forever."

"the bond between Israel and the United States is rooted in more than our shared national interests — it's rooted in the shared values and shared stories of our people. And as president, I will work with you to ensure that this bond is strengthened."

"But 60 years later, we know that we cannot relent, we cannot yield, and as president I will never compromise when it comes to Israel's security."

"Those who threaten Israel threaten us. Israel has always faced these threats on the front lines. And I will bring to the White House an unshakeable commitment to Israel's security. That starts with ensuring Israel's qualitative military advantage. "

Where's Obama's criticism. If he really commits to creating peace, surely he must have something to say about Israel's actions? Well, he does, he calls it self-defense and has promised to always help them with that.

I don't have a problem with a commitment to Israel's security. We do have a bond. However


You also recall that Mr. Obama spoke about the need to open a dialog with Iran to begin healing. He was ambushed by just about everyone. So he has stopped talking because Americans are still wounded from 9-11. Americans are badly misinformed about Iran, as well at the entire Middle East and its people.

The answer is to open dialog. The answer is to include all Middle Eastern leaders in the effort for finding a solution.

I believe Israel to be the most important issues that faces this presidency, and I think Obama is up to the task. i don't think he has unconditional love for Israel. he pledged support and security for its people.

Never has our counry done so much damage to relations with that part of he world than in the last 8 years. Mr. Obama was a young senator, then an underdog candidate. His words did not have the clout they will have come January 20th. He is wise not to undermine the current administration's foreign policy as that could be dangerous.

Mr Obama's intelligence and communication skills will serve us well, if he can make that region feel part of the world commnity and come to the table and work for a lasting peace.

Iran wants a lasting peace

Palistinians want a lasting peace

Israel wants a lasting peace

If we are able to work together - we wil find a solution. Barack Obama is well equiped and eager to make that happen.

Due to high tensions and 8 years of brutally ignorant foreign policy, it has become impossible for him to talk about Arabs as though they were civilized or even equal to us.

The ball will be his soon, and that will change.

that is the Change you will see. There will still be politics and comprimise. However, if we can somehow become partners in world affairs with the nations of the world, it will prove how ignorant it was to turn Iraq into the hell it is... and to subject real people to such brutality and indifference.

Yes, he has been silent. A great number of Americans do not consider the other side of this arguement to be worthy of consideration. they will receive some education in the coming months. They too will be treated with respect, and they too will come around and perhaps be willing to participat as well in he process.

These assumptions based in the inaction of a candidate or a President elect are premature.. made with a very small amount of necessary information.

let the man become president, and see what he does.

He has done nothing in my view that shows dishonesty, or any will to continue he imperialistic violent dictatorship of the last eight years. He must tread softly - win the respect of a world very badly divided in every direction.

so far I think he has been brilliant and I expect that to continue.

Collin

He was speaking from his heart, though, the sensitive bastard.

Anyway, I can only hope you're right. The only thing is from what I've seen and heard I cannot come to the same conclusion as you.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

Abuskedti wrote:

Due to high tensions and 8 years of brutally ignorant foreign policy, it has become impossible for him to talk about Arabs as though they were civilized or even equal to us.

hmmmmm....8 years??? It's more like 40 if we're talking Middle East policy.

Abuskedti

Saturnal wrote:

hmmmmm....8 years??? It's more like 40 if we're talking Middle East policy.

agreed.. but it seems to grow worse year after year.