oh, 'liberal', how far you have fallen

MrBrian

brandon10 wrote:

Well, while you may think the left has fallen, I think it has finally risen.

Now is OUR time to get behind OUR president and push him and motivate him to fulfill OUR goals. I'd say there is far more opportunity for us now than there ever has been.

Left,right, middle...whatever.

The point is, Obama has picked Rahm and Biden, both are bad choices and show zero progress. Look at his advisors!..and ross?

Unless the Patriot act, the Iraq war, blind support of Israel and a list of other things are positive...

Yeah, risen? Rise up and hit your head, fall back down with a concussion.

brandon10

MrBrian wrote:

Left,right, middle...whatever.

The point is, Obama has picked Rahm and Biden, both are bad choices and show zero progress. Look at his advisors!..and ross?

Unless the Patriot act, the Iraq war, blind support of Israel and a list of other things are positive...

Yeah, risen? Rise up and hit your head, fall back down with a concussion.

It doesn't matter who the hell he has in his cabinet. If he gets us out of Iraq and starts friendly dialogue with countries around the world. Then we are moving in the right direction. Those would NEVER happen under Bush!

mammasan

The problem is not that people support Obama, McCain, or Paul. The problem is blind support. I didn't vote for Obama, but I'm not going to dismiss his supporters or his plans and policies simply because i didn't vote for him. I'm going to hear him out and give him the chance he deserves. I will judge him based on his performance and I would have done the same had McCain been elected. There are to many people in this country, on either side, who just write off the candidate simply because they have a difference of opinion. That to me is ignorance. Saying that supporters of a certain politicians are the equivalent of an intellectual STD is the climax of ignorance and stupidity and illustrates the problem with the electorate in this country. They are so wrapped up in "winning" that they will never entertain any idea that is not generated from their team. All sides of politics have something to offer and until we get past hyper-partisanship we will never be able to have a government that works for the people because we will be too busy fighting each other to pay much attention to the actions in Washington.

MattyJoe

godpt3 wrote:

Except that I'm not a stark-raving, conspiracy-theory-believing LUNATIC!!! You can't have an intelligent discussion with someone who has no grasp on reality. You can't ignore them. That only makes the problem worse. These people are the equivalent of an intellectual STD.


If anything, the Paultards are the sheeple.

You think they're stark-raving lunatic because you've been so conditioned by society that it's inconceivable to you that such things go on. While I don't believe in many popular conspiracy theories, there's still plenty of shit that is going on which is worth taking a deeper look at than just what the media shows.

In my opinion, the media perpetuates countless conspiracies on the public all the time:

West Nile Virus
Bird Flu
SARS
Killer African Bees
Mad Cow Disease
MERCA
Fossil Fuels Drying Up

And the worst media conspiracy of all time:

Global Warming

All of these things the media creates an enormous frenzy over and people go crazy over, not letting their kids go outside, for example, for fear of getting West Nile Virus. Then, they suddenly disappear and the public forgets all about it when the next thing comes along. Most of them arise out of statements by scientists or doctors or other figures in authority where they're simply speculating or presenting a worst-case scenario. But the media prematurely jumps all over the issue and distorts the story to the point where something that was a worst case scenario becomes an Apocalyptic prediction.

MrBrian

brandon10 wrote:

It doesn't matter who the hell he has in his cabinet. If he gets us out of Iraq and starts friendly dialogue with countries around the world. Then we are moving in the right direction. Those would NEVER happen under Bush!

Does it matter that people in his cabinet are pro iraq war? Blindly follow Israel?
Why have advisors at all? It doesnt matter right?

Israel does not want the US to make peace with Iran, Israel does not even want America to talk to Iran. Connect the dots.

But sure, Obama will talk to Iran, make it look like they tried, then Bomb Iran anyway because Israel wants it. But hey, at least Obama talked first.

Smellyman2

It's already started. Over 2 months from taking office and bitching already has begun.

supposedly it's the liberals who have fallen.........

MrBrian

Smellyman wrote:

It's already started. Over 2 months from taking office and bitching already has begun.

....

Address the reason for the bitching. Speak about the issues.

People are bringing up valid points and valid concerns. Then you come in and dont really address them, just complain, then accuse others of just bitching.

Smellyman2

MrBrian wrote:

Address the reason for the bitching. Speak about the issues.

People are bringing up valid points and valid concerns. Then you come in and dont really address them, just complain, then accuse others of just bitching.

about what? the first post was nonsense. Paultards??? Sorry for whoever said that, I guess.

godpt3

MattyJoe wrote:

You think they're stark-raving lunatic because you've been so conditioned by society that it's inconceivable to you that such things go on.

read this, you might find it informative:

The Psychology of Conspiracy Theories
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm

Conspiracy Theories Explained
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20050125-000003.html

godpt3

MattyJoe wrote:

Mad Cow Disease

Have you ever personally seen someone die from BSE, son? I HAVE! So with all due respect, please shut up unless you know what the hell you're talking about.

kcherub

El_Kabong wrote:

it's a pretty sad state...do you even realize that many of you have become nothing more than a cliche of closed mindedness? many of you have become exactly what you said you hated about bush supporters how some of you attack anyone who doesn't like 'your guy' and put down everyone who didn't vote for him by calling them names like 'paultards'....yet, i don't call you sheeple just following along even though that's exactly what some of you are

you're acting like little children

Actually, what I have seen (from my friends and acquaintances) is the opposite. Obama supporters (before and after the election) have been called "sheep", "hopeful changers", "ignorant" and "idiots" and so on and so on.

I voted after a lot of research and careful consideration. I didn't vote for Obama because my husband did--he voted for McCain, actually.

I understand that there has been some name-calling on here with regard to McCain supporters, but please don't lump all us "liberals" together. I really don't discuss politics and NOT because I am too much of a wussy. It just seems like a ridiculous debate to have. I feel the way I do after the experiences I have had, and those ideas won't be changed by hearing someone else's views, and theirs not by hearing mine. I can respect how a "conservative" feels and thinks, but it doesn't mean that my side is "BAD".

I do realize that you said "some, many, etc.".

12345AGNST1

El_Kabong wrote:

it's a pretty sad state...do you even realize that many of you have become nothing more than a cliche of closed mindedness? many of you have become exactly what you said you hated about bush supporters how some of you attack anyone who doesn't like 'your guy' and put down everyone who didn't vote for him by calling them names like 'paultards'....yet, i don't call you sheeple just following along even though that's exactly what some of you are

you're acting like little children

Thats why when Mccain gave his concession speech, the audience booed him for mentioning Obama, and when Kerry lost, nobody booed him for saying Bush.

OK

bootlegger10

12345AGNST1 wrote:

Thats why when Mccain gave his concession speech, the audience booed him for mentioning Obama, and when Kerry lost, nobody booed him for saying Bush.

OK

I think El Kebong's point is that the Republicans have been acting like this for 8 years, and that the liberals would not stoop to that level like they have been lately.


I think it is CRAZY to think liberals haven't blindly followed the Democratic agenda like the Bushies followed the Republican agenda.

El_Kabong

brandon10 wrote:

Well, while you may think the left has fallen, I think it has finally risen.

Now is OUR time to get behind OUR president and push him and motivate him to fulfill OUR goals. I'd say there is far more opportunity for us now than there ever has been.

ok, all i'm saying is there's no need to be so mean spirited and dismissive of any other view or candidate, the way ppl's reactions have changed just b/c i am just as critical of obama as i was bush for nearly 8 years (which, incidentally, they all loved) is ridicuolous and petty.

"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of right."

- Thomas Paine

El_Kabong

mammasan wrote:

The problem is not that people support Obama, McCain, or Paul. The problem is blind support. I didn't vote for Obama, but I'm not going to dismiss his supporters or his plans and policies simply because i didn't vote for him. I'm going to hear him out and give him the chance he deserves. I will judge him based on his performance and I would have done the same had McCain been elected. There are to many people in this country, on either side, who just write off the candidate simply because they have a difference of opinion. That to me is ignorance. Saying that supporters of a certain politicians are the equivalent of an intellectual STD is the climax of ignorance and stupidity and illustrates the problem with the electorate in this country. They are so wrapped up in "winning" that they will never entertain any idea that is not generated from their team. All sides of politics have something to offer and until we get past hyper-partisanship we will never be able to have a government that works for the people because we will be too busy fighting each other to pay much attention to the actions in Washington.

exactly! i liked paul on certain things but some things i didn't, so i didn't support him while you and others did but whats the point of saying 'god, mammasan, you're such a fucking idiot for liking paul!' paul has a lot of good ideas, only ppl w/ huge egos think they know it all instead of having to work together, that's exactly why things sucked w/ bush b/c it wasn't a balance but is there really ever?

El_Kabong

MrBrian wrote:

Does it matter that people in his cabinet are pro iraq war? Blindly follow Israel?
Why have advisors at all? It doesnt matter right?

Israel does not want the US to make peace with Iran, Israel does not even want America to talk to Iran. Connect the dots.

But sure, Obama will talk to Iran, make it look like they tried, then Bomb Iran anyway because Israel wants it. But hey, at least Obama talked first.

and obama doesn't want to ask israel to talk to palestine and he won't talk to hamas even tho a poll by Haaretz showed that 64% of Israelis favored "direct negotiations with Hamas." and Eric Alterman summarized numerous polls in a December 2007 issue of The Nation magazine showing that AIPAC policies are opposed by a majority of Jewish-Americans.

El_Kabong

MrBrian wrote:

Address the reason for the bitching. Speak about the issues.

People are bringing up valid points and valid concerns. Then you come in and dont really address them, just complain, then accuse others of just bitching.

it's more the nasty attitude that they hated so much from the bush supporters

and to be fair there are some obama supporters here who are honest and say 'yeah, i disagree w/ obama on that but overall i think he's the better choice' instead of suddenly acting like they are no longer issues like suddenly liking the patriot act and nuclear power and it's waste

El_Kabong

Smellyman wrote:

about what? the first post was nonsense. Paultards??? Sorry for whoever said that, I guess.

why do you focus on just 'paultards'???

it's the whole attitude, the whole condenscension towards anyone who doesn't support obama and how they look down their noses at anyone other candidate and belittle them and their supporters w/ petty insults

it's a narrow view of 'i'm right and everyone else is wrong and stupid'

MrBrian

El_Kabong wrote:

and obama doesn't want to ask israel to talk to palestine and he won't talk to hamas even tho a poll by Haaretz showed that 64% of Israelis favored "direct negotiations with Hamas." and Eric Alterman summarized numerous polls in a December 2007 issue of The Nation magazine showing that AIPAC policies are opposed by a majority of Jewish-Americans.

And more Israelis are critical of their own Israeli government and a number are even refusing to serve in the army.

Yet Obama and company backs Israeli actions 100% and are never critical.

El_Kabong

kcherub wrote:

Actually, what I have seen (from my friends and acquaintances) is the opposite. Obama supporters (before and after the election) have been called "sheep", "hopeful changers", "ignorant" and "idiots" and so on and so on.

I voted after a lot of research and careful consideration. I didn't vote for Obama because my husband did--he voted for McCain, actually.

I understand that there has been some name-calling on here with regard to McCain supporters, but please don't lump all us "liberals" together. I really don't discuss politics and NOT because I am too much of a wussy. It just seems like a ridiculous debate to have. I feel the way I do after the experiences I have had, and those ideas won't be changed by hearing someone else's views, and theirs not by hearing mine. I can respect how a "conservative" feels and thinks, but it doesn't mean that my side is "BAD".

I do realize that you said "some, many, etc.".

i understand and i know some are honest in their support for obama, but there are also others (who i was refering to) that are just nasty towards nader and paul supporters and belittle those men and all who support them