just a reminder before we fuck w/ iran and start some more stupid shit....

El_Kabong

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

lots of links of muslims groups and leaders condemning what happened on 9/11

also lots of pics of muslims in muslim countries holding vigils and moments of silence for the victims of 9/11.

did ya know In Iran, Tehran's main soccer stadium observed a minute's silence for the victims?

or 1 million Palestinian students in the Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, stood five minutes in silence to express their solidarity with the hundreds of American children who have been struck?

or Palestinians in East Jerusalem held a candle-light vigils on 12 and 14 September to express their grief and solidarity with the American families struck by this tragedy? or that Mr. Abdel Qader Al-Husseini, son of the late Palestinian leader Faisal Al-Husseini led one of the vigils?

or the Palestine Legislative Council condemned the terrorist attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of the House of Representatives?

were you aware the terrorist act was strongly condemned by every single Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human Right organizations (AlHaq, Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations, municipalities, mosques and churches...?

did ya hear Iran's Ayatollah Imami Kashani spoke of a catastrophic act of terrorism which could only be condemned by all Muslims, adding the whole world should mobilise against terrorism?

did ya see the pics of a candlelight vigil on the streets of Tehran, Iran, in which over a million Iranians took part in on 9/18/01?

69charger

El_Kabong wrote:

http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm

lots of links of muslims groups and leaders condemning what happened on 9/11

also lots of pics of muslims in muslim countries holding vigils and moments of silence for the victims of 9/11.

did ya know In Iran, Tehran's main soccer stadium observed a minute's silence for the victims?

or 1 million Palestinian students in the Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, stood five minutes in silence to express their solidarity with the hundreds of American children who have been struck?

or Palestinians in East Jerusalem held a candle-light vigils on 12 and 14 September to express their grief and solidarity with the American families struck by this tragedy? or that Mr. Abdel Qader Al-Husseini, son of the late Palestinian leader Faisal Al-Husseini led one of the vigils?

or the Palestine Legislative Council condemned the terrorist attack on the United States and sent an urgent letter of condolences to Mr. J Dennis Hasterd, Speaker of the House of Representatives?

were you aware the terrorist act was strongly condemned by every single Palestinian organization including Fatah, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, Hamas, Workers Unions and Committees, Human Right organizations (AlHaq, Law, Palestine Center for Human Rights), student associations, municipalities, mosques and churches...?

did ya hear Iran's Ayatollah Imami Kashani spoke of a catastrophic act of terrorism which could only be condemned by all Muslims, adding the whole world should mobilise against terrorism?

did ya see the pics of a candlelight vigil on the streets of Tehran, Iran, in which over a million Iranians took part in on 9/18/01?

Umm, Kabong? I thought WE did it. Why then would Muslim's need to apologize?

Collin

69charger wrote:

Umm, Kabong? I thought WE did it. Why then would Muslim's need to apologize?

Since when is expressing grief, solidarity and sympathy an apology?

know1

What does them expressing grief or remorse or whatever have to do with starting a way there? I thought the reason the U.S. is primarily unhappy with them has to do with their nuclear program and possible aggression toward Israel. None of that has anything to do with 9/11.

Collin

know1 wrote:

What does them expressing grief or remorse or whatever have to do with starting a way there?

Perhaps nothing. But perhaps it isn't the expression of grief that's the point. Could it be that they are people like we are, who don't want war, who were also shocked and moved when they saw the 9/11 attacks... Maybe it's just me but the media doesn't seem to be focusing on that aspect.

The thought of the US bombing these innocent peaceful people is sickening... holding a candle light vigil shows me the people want peace... perhaps bombing them isn't exactly the right solution...

That's my point of view anyway.

bootlegger10

Collin wrote:

Perhaps nothing. But perhaps it isn't the expression of grief that's the point. Could it be that they are people like we are, who don't want war, who were also shocked and moved when they saw the 9/11 attacks... Maybe it's just me but the media doesn't seem to be focusing on that aspect.

The thought of the US bombing these innocent peaceful people is sickening... holding a candle light vigil shows me the people want peace... perhaps bombing them isn't exactly the right solution...

That's my point of view anyway.

Unfortunately it is not the Iranian public who is pushing the nuclear program. I would also be interested in the Iranian public's response to "wiping Israel off the map."

And if the US does bomb Iran the blame should go in this order: Iran, Russia, and China.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

Unfortunately it is not the Iranian public who is pushing the nuclear program. I would also be interested in the Iranian public's response to "wiping Israel off the map."

And if the US does bomb Iran the blame should go in this order: Iran, Russia, and China.

So. In many ways, perhaps, the Iranian people are unwilling subjects to their governent as we are here in the USA.

I think so.

And who are the Puppeteers?

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

So. In many ways, perhaps, the Iranian people are unwilling subjects to their governent as we are here in the USA.

I think so.

And who are the Puppeteers?

So that means that we let their government acquire nuclear weapons with the intent of wiping Israel off the map?

I am not for a war with Iran, but at some point we made need to bomb their nuclear locations. Just because the Iranian people don't like their government, doesn't mean we give their government a pass.

Edit: And seriously, why does everyone give Russia, China, and the major European countries a free pass when the reality is if all of these countries worked together we could find a diplomatic conclusion to most of our problems? Instead, these countries purposefully stand back in order to make money and not have to make any real decisions.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

So that means that we let their government acquire nuclear weapons with the intent of wiping Israel off the map?

I am not for a war with Iran, but at some point we made need to bomb their nuclear locations. Just because the Iranian people don't like their government, doesn't mean we give their government a pass.

Well, I'm not about this USA policing the world kinda thinking that you seem to come from. If push came to shove, sure, America should defend Israel from an aggressive agenda of bombing from Iran, or anyone else. I'm not a zionist sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, and America should be, at this point and time be condemning Israeli miltary aggression as well. But our government does not.

There's a huge philosophical imbalance here.

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

Well, I'm not about this USA policing the world kinda thinking that you seem to come from. If push came to shove, sure, America should defend Israel from an aggressive agenda of bombing from Iran, or anyone else. I'm not a zionist sympathizer by any stretch of the imagination, and America should be, at this point and time be condemning Israeli miltary aggression as well. But our government does not.

There's a huge philosophical imbalance here.

Some countries in the world do need policing. I think it would be great if there was a coalition of countries that could do the policing (like a UN that actually mattered) so that it wasn't left to the USA. But just because others aren't willing to make the hard decision and do what is right (like stopping a country from acquiring a nuclear weapon it intends to use), does not mean that we must then back down as well.

Russia and China are unwilling to help, and I want to know why they get a free pass for it. The US and the rest of the UN could police without weapons if they showed solidarity, but they don't.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

Some countries in the world do need policing. I think it would be great if there was a coalition of countries that could do the policing (like a UN that actually mattered) so that it wasn't left to the USA. But just because others aren't willing to make the hard decision and do what is right (like stopping a country from acquiring a nuclear weapon it intends to use), does not mean that we must then back down as well.

Russia and China are unwilling to help, and I want to know why they get a free pass for it. The US and the rest of the UN could police without weapons if they showed solidarity, but they don't.

Here's what I think. The traditional US role of having the hard-on to take on all comers is wearing thin in the global community. It has overstayed its welcome, and in some cases (like Darfur) is inexplicably absent.
You have a good question when you ask, well, why isn't anyone else bringing their fighters to the front?

America, being America, being an icon of hope, still has a chance to right itself.

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

Here's what I think. The traditional US role of having the hard-on to take on all comers is wearing thin in the global community. It has overstayed its welcome, and in some cases (like Darfur) is inexplicably absent.
You have a good question when you ask, well, why isn't anyone else bringing their fighters to the front?

I don't want China or Russia's fighters. I want their diplomatic action and resolve. It basically comes down to economics.

Yes, the US's role has been wearing thin. But who will step up in its place? If you and I agree that Iran should not get a nuclear weapon, then we would agree that the world community should step up to pressure Iran. Who will do it if the US doesn't? If you and I do not agree about Iran getting a nuclear weapon, then I guess we just disagree.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

I don't want China or Russia's fighters. I want their diplomatic action and resolve. It basically comes down to economics.

Yes, the US's role has been wearing thin. But who will step up in its place? If you and I agree that Iran should not get a nuclear weapon, then we would agree that the world community should step up to pressure Iran. Who will do it if the US doesn't? If you and I do not agree about Iran getting a nuclear weapon, then I guess we just disagree.

It isn't that simple, yet on the flip side of the coin, it is very simple.

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

It isn't that simple, yet on the flip side of the coin, it is very simple.

How do you mean?

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

How do you mean?

The American resolve for Iraq was to curb the threat of terrorism, of another 9/11, to save us from a mushroom cloud explosion.

We goofed.

And even then, Bush had had his chances to save face, diplomatically, in Iraq, even after fucking up...
anyway.

The flip side of the coin is Darfur. Did I spell it right?
That's some sick shit going on there, and if we could impose the mildest of miltary presences there, nothing really, compared to Iraq, and make a change for peace, this would bode well to our good American intentions. You have good intentions, bootlegger10?

Even in politics, it isn't always economics.

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

The American resolve for Iraq was to curb the threat of terrorism, of another 9/11, to save us from a mushroom cloud explosion.

We goofed.

And even then, Bush had had his chances to save face, diplomatically, in Iraq, even after fucking up...
anyway.

The flip side of the coin is Darfur. Did I spell it right?
That's some sick shit going on there, and if we could impose the mildest of miltary presences there, nothing really, compared to Iraq, and make a change for peace, this would bode well to our good American intentions. You have good intentions, bootlegger10?

Even in politics, it isn't always economics.

I think if we could go into Darfur and actually accomplish something we should. I do understand that we and the rest of the world have more of a stake it when happens in the Middle East, which is why most of our focus is there. From a "choosing your battles" perspective I understand where the focus of the world's energy is.

There would be loss of American life and there would be civilians killed if we went into Darfur, can you handle that Que?

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

I think if we could go into Darfur and actually accomplish something we should. I do understand that we and the rest of the world have more of a stake it when happens in the Middle East, which is why most of our focus is there. From a "choosing your battles" perspective I understand where the focus of the world's energy is.

There would be loss of American life and there would be civilians killed if we went into Darfur, can you handle that Que?

It's Gue. Pronounced, "Jew".

Of course. I would volunteer.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

There would be loss of American life and there would be civilians killed if we went into Darfur, can you handle that Que?

BTW, I'm a Marine Corps veteran.

bootlegger10

gue_barium wrote:

BTW, I'm a Marine Corps veteran.

Hey, just trying to figure out where you are coming from. Anti-War or just anti-unjust causes.

gue_barium

bootlegger10 wrote:

Hey, just trying to figure out where you are coming from. Anti-War or just anti-unjust causes.

Stop being so CIA, and start being who we are.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

i hope the good ole USA nukes those fuckers back to the stone age......