Exactly. It doesn't matter how much people bring this subject up, the results are in, and even then it doesn't matter if you agree with them or not, there's nothing anyone can do. A lot more will be accomplished if everyone looks to FUTURE elections and not past ones.
excellent plan, perfect example of the democratic party's way of doing things, also. Keep losing, don't try to fix anything, stick with what we are good at...losing. If you don't fix the problem, it's gonna keep happening folks.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Exactly. It doesn't matter how much people bring this subject up, the results are in, and even then it doesn't matter if you agree with them or not, there's nothing anyone can do. A lot more will be accomplished if everyone looks to FUTURE elections and not past ones.
yeah, we should tell the police to stop investigating PAST crimes and just focus on stopping FUTURE crimes, what a great idea!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
When irregularities are present, vote fraud investigations are always going to be called for by the losing side - why would the winning side risk their win? It's the traction these allegations get in the general population after the call for investigation has been put in that could lead to something more than partisian grievences.
And the voting practices in the Dornan/Sanchez election have been investigated. The investigation found that there was fraud - only Sanchez herself wasn't found to be personally involved, and was allowed to keep her seat. As for the 2004 election, no one believes that if fraud is found, Bush will be removed and Kerry appointed president (O.K., maybe not "no one" - but you get my drift). It's too late for that. What it would do is show that yes we have problems with our voting system, yes they can be exploited, and yes it actually affected the outcome of a presidential election. Fraud becomes more difficult when voters know how it's done.
............................
i don't understand why ppl don't care if someone is in power (and looting our treasury) by fradulent means? you'd think no matter what party they belong to ppl would see it as wrong.
i doubt any here would tell the police to stop investigating a crime that happened in the past and just focus on stopping a future crime. fuck, just suck up your partisan loyalties and see everyone ends up losing like this
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeah, we should tell the police to stop investigating PAST crimes and just focus on stopping FUTURE crimes, what a great idea!
This isn't even close to that...unless you are talking about police only investigating past allegations against minorities while turning a blind eye to the crimes committed by white people.
This isn't even close to that...unless you are talking about police only investigating past allegations against minorities while turning a blind eye to the crimes committed by white people.
Ah, it doesn't matter who did it anymore.. we know they are all criminals.. If we can prove this one - its a start.
Ah, it doesn't matter who did it anymore.. we know they are all criminals.. If we can prove this one - its a start.
It cannot be viewed as an independent investigation with only one side under the microscope. Corruption in the investigation will be impossible to avoid.
It cannot be viewed as an independent investigation with only one side under the microscope. Corruption in the investigation will be impossible to avoid.
We should be trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again...and again...
We should be trying to make sure that it doesn't happen again...and again...
doesn't anyone care about freedom anymore?
I agree with you but the corruption caused by allowing one side who is guilty to investigate another side is nothing more than education on how to shut opponents down. With all of the reports this year, we still haven't fixed the alleged problems from 1960 and any investigation that would take place here has no interest in that. One-sided investigations are useless and do nothing but create a bigger problem.
yeah, we should tell the police to stop investigating PAST crimes and just focus on stopping FUTURE crimes, what a great idea!
You're making a comparison that I believe is pretty weak. Tell me how investigating the past election in order to prove that there was funny business will help the Democratic party win the next election. The way I see it, there is something that can be learned from the 2000 and 2004 elections, but one should only investigate it so far. To me, it's gotten to the point where the Democratic party is paying TOO MUCH attention on what's already happened, and unlike a case where there's a murderer on the loose, I don't really see how it will help the party win the netx election if they continue to pay so much attention to something in the past that CANNOT be reversed.
You're making a comparison that I believe is pretty weak. Tell me how investigating the past election in order to prove that there was funny business will help the Democratic party win the next election. The way I see it, there is something that can be learned from the 2000 and 2004 elections, but one should only investigate it so far. To me, it's gotten to the point where the Democratic party is paying TOO MUCH attention on what's already happened, and unlike a case where there's a murderer on the loose, I don't really see how it will help the party win the netx election if they continue to pay so much attention to something in the past that CANNOT be reversed.
you have to find the cause of the problem in order to fix it. if we continue to let these things happen and don't find out what went wrong and why then the dems and any other opposition will lose. and for that matter how do you learn for the past if you don't investigate it? and how many dems are actually making this an issue? I seriously haven't heard too much. They simply pull a Gore and roll over then play dead.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree with you but the corruption caused by allowing one side who is guilty to investigate another side is nothing more than education on how to shut opponents down. With all of the reports this year, we still haven't fixed the alleged problems from 1960 and any investigation that would take place here has no interest in that. One-sided investigations are useless and do nothing but create a bigger problem.
i'd be happy if both parties went down
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
You're making a comparison that I believe is pretty weak. Tell me how investigating the past election in order to prove that there was funny business will help the Democratic party win the next election. The way I see it, there is something that can be learned from the 2000 and 2004 elections, but one should only investigate it so far. To me, it's gotten to the point where the Democratic party is paying TOO MUCH attention on what's already happened, and unlike a case where there's a murderer on the loose, I don't really see how it will help the party win the netx election if they continue to pay so much attention to something in the past that CANNOT be reversed.
i don't care about helping the dems nor am i hoping to reverse the elections and put kerry in...we can't just keep saying 'well, the others do it, too...so...' who the fuck cares, they are both dirty so why the fuck are we supporting either of them or allowing either of them to keep doing this? make the allegations agaisnt the dems part of the investigation, too, for all i care! we can't just keep shrugging this off. like commy said, doesn't any care about freedom anymore? we seem all too willing to just hand all our rights over
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
The software programmer named Republican U.S. Congressman Tom Feeney (a Republican member of the Judiciary Committee, a corporate attorney for YEI, as well as being a registered lobbyist for the company) as having asked him to create "vote-rigging" software in a meeting at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) prior to the 2000 elections.
Feeney was, at the time of the alleged meeting, a Florida legislator and later became Speaker of the Florida House. He was also the running mate to Jeb Bush in his failed 1994 bid for Florida Governor
..................................
2003:
Rep Peter King "it's already over, the election's over, we won"
person w/ camera 'how do you know that?' "
Rep Peter King "It's all down to the counting and we'll take care of the counting"
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
One of our favorite public citizens, Mr. Wright, asked what may turn out be the most important question of the year. What is Diebold's ... all » explanation, he wants to know, for the Visual Basic Script hack of the GEMS central tabulator performed by Dr. Herbert Thompson.
Diebold Election Systems Chief Engineer Pat Green admits that Diebold has known of the defect since the 2004 CompuWare Report.
Black Box Voting has learned that the August 18, 2004 CompuWare Report was hidden from the public by Secretary of State Ken Blackwell). CompuWare assessment of risk for tampering: "High, High, High" (http://www.bbvdocs.org/reports/ GEMS-RISK.pdf)
This leads to the crucial question: If Diebold knew, and if Ken Blackwell knew, why wasn't the Election Assistence Commission told, why were no other secretaries of state told, why didn't Blackwell tell Ohio election officials using GEMS, and why weren't the mitigations required by CompuWare ever implemented?
The 2004 Election was run on knowingly defective software, but this information was withheld by Kenneth Blackwell until after the election, putting 30 million votes in question, in 30 states
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Radke lies, Diebold Chief Engineer denies info error
Both Diebold executives flat-out lied to the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections during a sales presentation, giving Cuyahoga County Commissioners a false claims case the minute they hand over a check.
Ion Sancho and Dr. Doug Jones report what they've learned. Sancho reports that the Florida Election Supervisors meetings have never covered the topic of security; Dr. Jones describes election officials' refusal to look at security reports.
Poll tapes and ballots in the trash, oh my. Bev Harris and "Pete" from the Volusia County ... all » warehouse fight over a bag of garbage, culminating in finding various poll tapes, a homemade ballot, and quite possibly the first formal public records request ever submitted for a bag of garbage.
Bev Harris:
By the way, while it's true there were sample ballots in the bag, not all were samples. What we found was a whole bunch of half-sized ballot masters. Put on the machine at 200% and copied they turn into ballots (except the ballot is missing a serial number). So, I got to wondering: Does this trash contain any un-serialnumbered full sized ballots that do not say "sample" that match Fidlar Doubleday ballot masters found in the same bag (curiously, Fidlar uses mini-ballot masters for packing slips, how handy!)
The answer was yes. They were making ballots in the warehouse.
Add to this: The Volusia County ballot vault was available to the some same people who were at the warehouse, 24 hours a day. Put these two things together and the hand-count audits become a joke.
... This is not accusing people, this is pointing out procedural issues which need to be cleaned up.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
all in the name of 'the american way of life' which means, ignorant lazy selfish spending consuming greed, spoon fed to you by the so called 'leaders' of the country so they can get more money to have more controll. Land of the Free? or land of the pigs.
Comments
excellent plan, perfect example of the democratic party's way of doing things, also. Keep losing, don't try to fix anything, stick with what we are good at...losing. If you don't fix the problem, it's gonna keep happening folks.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
-Dick Cheney
"Are you taking over or are you taking orders"
-Joe Strummer 1952-2002
"All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting."
-George Orwell
yeah, we should tell the police to stop investigating PAST crimes and just focus on stopping FUTURE crimes, what a great idea!
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
............................
i don't understand why ppl don't care if someone is in power (and looting our treasury) by fradulent means? you'd think no matter what party they belong to ppl would see it as wrong.
i doubt any here would tell the police to stop investigating a crime that happened in the past and just focus on stopping a future crime. fuck, just suck up your partisan loyalties and see everyone ends up losing like this
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
This isn't even close to that...unless you are talking about police only investigating past allegations against minorities while turning a blind eye to the crimes committed by white people.
Ah, it doesn't matter who did it anymore.. we know they are all criminals.. If we can prove this one - its a start.
It cannot be viewed as an independent investigation with only one side under the microscope. Corruption in the investigation will be impossible to avoid.
doesn't anyone care about freedom anymore?
I agree with you but the corruption caused by allowing one side who is guilty to investigate another side is nothing more than education on how to shut opponents down. With all of the reports this year, we still haven't fixed the alleged problems from 1960 and any investigation that would take place here has no interest in that. One-sided investigations are useless and do nothing but create a bigger problem.
You're making a comparison that I believe is pretty weak. Tell me how investigating the past election in order to prove that there was funny business will help the Democratic party win the next election. The way I see it, there is something that can be learned from the 2000 and 2004 elections, but one should only investigate it so far. To me, it's gotten to the point where the Democratic party is paying TOO MUCH attention on what's already happened, and unlike a case where there's a murderer on the loose, I don't really see how it will help the party win the netx election if they continue to pay so much attention to something in the past that CANNOT be reversed.
you have to find the cause of the problem in order to fix it. if we continue to let these things happen and don't find out what went wrong and why then the dems and any other opposition will lose. and for that matter how do you learn for the past if you don't investigate it? and how many dems are actually making this an issue? I seriously haven't heard too much. They simply pull a Gore and roll over then play dead.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i'd be happy if both parties went down
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i don't care about helping the dems nor am i hoping to reverse the elections and put kerry in...we can't just keep saying 'well, the others do it, too...so...' who the fuck cares, they are both dirty so why the fuck are we supporting either of them or allowing either of them to keep doing this? make the allegations agaisnt the dems part of the investigation, too, for all i care! we can't just keep shrugging this off. like commy said, doesn't any care about freedom anymore? we seem all too willing to just hand all our rights over
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy,_vote_suppression
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7262269533321066760&q=diebold
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3555094491715905699&q=election%20hack
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8112825559202389150&q=election%20hacking
The software programmer named Republican U.S. Congressman Tom Feeney (a Republican member of the Judiciary Committee, a corporate attorney for YEI, as well as being a registered lobbyist for the company) as having asked him to create "vote-rigging" software in a meeting at Yang Enterprises, Inc. (YEI) prior to the 2000 elections.
Feeney was, at the time of the alleged meeting, a Florida legislator and later became Speaker of the Florida House. He was also the running mate to Jeb Bush in his failed 1994 bid for Florida Governor
..................................
broadband http://veredictum.com/stolenelection2004-256.ram
dialup http://veredictum.com/stolenelection2004-56.rm
2003:
Rep Peter King "it's already over, the election's over, we won"
person w/ camera 'how do you know that?' "
Rep Peter King "It's all down to the counting and we'll take care of the counting"
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
One of our favorite public citizens, Mr. Wright, asked what may turn out be the most important question of the year. What is Diebold's ... all » explanation, he wants to know, for the Visual Basic Script hack of the GEMS central tabulator performed by Dr. Herbert Thompson.
Diebold Election Systems Chief Engineer Pat Green admits that Diebold has known of the defect since the 2004 CompuWare Report.
Black Box Voting has learned that the August 18, 2004 CompuWare Report was hidden from the public by Secretary of State Ken Blackwell). CompuWare assessment of risk for tampering: "High, High, High" (http://www.bbvdocs.org/reports/ GEMS-RISK.pdf)
This leads to the crucial question: If Diebold knew, and if Ken Blackwell knew, why wasn't the Election Assistence Commission told, why were no other secretaries of state told, why didn't Blackwell tell Ohio election officials using GEMS, and why weren't the mitigations required by CompuWare ever implemented?
The 2004 Election was run on knowingly defective software, but this information was withheld by Kenneth Blackwell until after the election, putting 30 million votes in question, in 30 states
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6378243912683767456&q=black%20box%20voting
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Both Diebold executives flat-out lied to the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections during a sales presentation, giving Cuyahoga County Commissioners a false claims case the minute they hand over a check.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7314352239516712636&q=black%20box%20voting
officials are avoiding security issues info error
Ion Sancho and Dr. Doug Jones report what they've learned. Sancho reports that the Florida Election Supervisors meetings have never covered the topic of security; Dr. Jones describes election officials' refusal to look at security reports.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=24217606773354560&q=black%20box%20voting
".. you're throwing ballots and poll tapes away!"
Garbage Raid at the Volusia County warehouse
Poll tapes and ballots in the trash, oh my. Bev Harris and "Pete" from the Volusia County ... all » warehouse fight over a bag of garbage, culminating in finding various poll tapes, a homemade ballot, and quite possibly the first formal public records request ever submitted for a bag of garbage.
Bev Harris:
By the way, while it's true there were sample ballots in the bag, not all were samples. What we found was a whole bunch of half-sized ballot masters. Put on the machine at 200% and copied they turn into ballots (except the ballot is missing a serial number). So, I got to wondering: Does this trash contain any un-serialnumbered full sized ballots that do not say "sample" that match Fidlar Doubleday ballot masters found in the same bag (curiously, Fidlar uses mini-ballot masters for packing slips, how handy!)
The answer was yes. They were making ballots in the warehouse.
Add to this: The Volusia County ballot vault was available to the some same people who were at the warehouse, 24 hours a day. Put these two things together and the hand-count audits become a joke.
... This is not accusing people, this is pointing out procedural issues which need to be cleaned up.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-758105072598465368&q=black%20box%20voting
the Money Trail - Diebold gets 45million for state contract
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3478128348156995868&q=black%20box%20voting
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9206706169835025732&q=black%20box%20voting
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7595402339135215632&q=black%20box%20voting
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....