some words to ponder

El_Kabong

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." - Abraham Lincoln

"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views
beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing
God's service when it is violating all his laws." - John Adams

"The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing." - John Adams

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself." - John Adams

"If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." - Samuel Adams

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin

"Now more than ever before, the people are responsible for the character of their Congress. If that body be ignorant, reckless and corrupt, it is because the people tolerate ignorance, recklessness and corruption. If it be intelligent, brave and pure, it is because the people demand these high qualities to represent them in the national legislature.... If the next centennial does not find us a great nation ... it will be because those who represent the enterprise, the culture, and the morality of the nation do not aid in controlling the political forces." - James Garfield

"The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." - Patrick Henry

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." - Abraham Lincoln

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." - Thomas Jefferson

"The money powers prey upon the nation in times of peace and conspire against it in times of adversity. The banking powers are more despotic than a monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. They denounce as public enemies all who question their methods or throw light upon their crimes. I have two great enemies, the Southern Army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. Of the two, the one at my rear is my greatest foe." - Abraham Lincoln

"The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." - James Madison

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government." - Thomas Paine

"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." - Theodore Roosevelt

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience ... In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic process."
-- President Dwight Eisenhower

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
-- Dwight Eisenhower

"I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower


and a special one for pp:
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
-- Thomas Jefferson

chopitdown

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

jlew24asu

"We decided to destroy towers in America" - Osama Bin Laden

SundaySilence

"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him" GWB

robbie

thomas jefferson, samuel adams, john adams, ben franklin, Patrik henry, abe lincoln, thomas jefferson, james madison, dwight eisenhower, thomas paine, teddy roosevelt, all cut and run un-american cowards. how dare they put freedom, bravery, liberty, and justice over the american way of living in fear? i say we re-write our history books starting with george w. he is the only leader patriotic enough to know america belongs to corporations and weapons contractors. he is the only one to realise how dangerous our principals and freedoms are . he is the only one who realises that liberty is a quaint pre-911 notion. the only real american way to live is to blindly support the government without question, and to do away with all the checks and balances. 1 leader, all powerful, unquestioned, unchecked, alone to interpret laws, alone to rule. please never mention these names again... they should be remembered only as enemy combatants. we do not need freedom,justice, liberty, checks and balances, or privacy. what we need is protection, and only our all powerful George W Bush can provide that protection. without him, we have no america.

DPrival78

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long as I'm the dictator."

George W. Bush - December 18, 2000

jlew24asu

DPrival78 wrote:

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier - just so long as I'm the dictator."

George W. Bush - December 18, 2000

that GW, such the funny man

DPrival78

since 911 was invoked earlier, i have a couple on that topic.

from everyone's favorite defense secretary and pnac'er, donny rumsfeld:

"Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filed with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building (the pentagon) and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center." - parade magazine, 10/01

and

"And I think all of us have a sense if we imagine the kind of world we would face if the people who bombed the mess hall in Mosul, or the people who did the bombing in Spain, or the people who attacked the United States in New York, shot down the plane over Pennsylvania and attacked the Pentagon, the people who cut off peoples' heads on television to intimidate, to frighten -- indeed the word "terrorized" is just that." - CNN interview 12/04

PaperPlates

Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth. It is time that we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause. -Ronald Reagan

I couldn't help but say to Mr. Gorbachev just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from another planet. We'd find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this earth together.
Ronald Reagan


I've never been able to understand why a Republican contributor is a 'fat cat' and a Democratic contributor of the same amount of money is a 'public-spirited philanthropist'. -Ronald Reagan

Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong. -Ronald Reagan

One of my favorites

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. -Ronald Reagan

DPrival78

woodrow wilson, after signing the federal reserve act in 1913:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

jlew24asu

DPrival78 wrote:

woodrow wilson, after signing the federal reserve act in 1913:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."

that wilson, what a dumbass.

surferdude

El_Kabong wrote:

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."
-- Dwight Eisenhower

Regarding the first quote. So is every purchase of lipstick, cd's and any other non-essential good. Within the hierarchy of needs any purchase made by government for a non-essential good is taken out of the mouths of the poor. Using Dwight's thinking government investment in infra-structure such as roads comes at the expense of the poor. It's kind of silly for him to just paint this brush on defense spending.

surferdude

double post.

know1

PaperPlates wrote:

Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth. It is time that we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause. -Ronald Reagan

I couldn't help but say to Mr. Gorbachev just think how easy his task and mine might be in these meetings that we held if suddenly there was a threat to this world from another planet. We'd find out once and for all that we really are all human beings here on this earth together.
Ronald Reagan


I've never been able to understand why a Republican contributor is a 'fat cat' and a Democratic contributor of the same amount of money is a 'public-spirited philanthropist'. -Ronald Reagan

Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong. -Ronald Reagan

One of my favorites

We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. -Ronald Reagan

Those are great quotes. You can say what you want about his politics and policies, but there is no doubt that he was a person who was very presidential and someone that could lead. I haven't seen one of those since he left.

RainDog

surferdude wrote:

Regarding the first quote. So is every purchase of lipstick, cd's and any other non-essential good. Within the hierarchy of needs any purchase made by government for a non-essential good is taken out of the mouths of the poor. Using Dwight's thinking government investment in infra-structure such as roads comes at the expense of the poor. It's kind of silly for him to just paint this brush on defense spending.

Roads can be used by the poor - perhaps even to enrich themselves. "Defense spending" (could properly be called War spending) typically only ends up killing the poor.

As for lipstick and cd's - I'm not sure what the government budget is on those, but I don't imagine it's very high.

PaperPlates

know1 wrote:

Those are great quotes. You can say what you want about his politics and policies, but there is no doubt that he was a person who was very presidential and someone that could lead. I haven't seen one of those since he left.

Good of you to say, and so very true. Tho I doubt many here will agree. Its much easier to attack the man and his failures than it is to admit his accomplishments and successes.

RainDog

PaperPlates wrote:

Good of you to say, and so very true. Tho I doubt many here will agree. Its much easier to attack the man and his failures than it is to admit his accomplishments and successes.

So, quick, say something nice about Bill Clinton.

know1

PaperPlates wrote:

Good of you to say, and so very true. Tho I doubt many here will agree. Its much easier to attack the man and his failures than it is to admit his accomplishments and successes.

Basically, I was saying that even though he may have done things people disagreed with, when he was up speaking he had the auro of someone who inspired people to follow him and was someone who presented himself in a way that America could be proud of its president.

All of the presidents since seemed more like just regular Joes and not very "presidential".

PaperPlates

RainDog wrote:

So, quick, say something nice about Bill Clinton.

He knew how to use a cigar.

PaperPlates

know1 wrote:

Basically, I was saying that even though he may have done things people disagreed with, when he was up speaking he had the auro of someone who inspired people to follow him and was someone who presented himself in a way that America could be proud of its president.

All of the presidents since seemed more like just regular Joes and not very "presidential".

True. I dislike the "well Id have a beer with him" way of choosing. However, when the opponent is a guy who looks like he's been in a mortuary for 10 years, talks like he's been in one for 20 years, is the only other real choice, I guess the "beer guy" wins.

RainDog

PaperPlates wrote:

He knew how to use a cigar.

I see. So I guess it is "much easier to attack the man and his failures than it is to admit his accomplishments and successes." No president was a complete failure after all.