no need to look it up for me. I already did and I cant find it. Plus, it's in none of his stated polices on Iraq. It's made up spin being shoved down your throat but a radical website. you may be skeptical, and that good, but this it the type of crap I'm talking about. there are many radical people who will take this as fact and never open their eyes to other possible truths simply because this website said it.
whats the question, do I trust the media? not really but I do believe much of what they say is true. There are too many check and balances. If abc reports that a car bomb killed 50 people in a market I'll tend to believe them. If abc reports that recent polls show Iraqis are becoming more optimistic, I tend to believe them. If they lie about something, there are too many people watching and too many other networks ready to pounce on them for being a liar. there are no checks and balances for dissidentvoice.com...they can say whatever they want and people like the threat starter will take it as fact. the site shows no sources and has no one saying they are wrong.
well, i posted an article from the boston globe and one from the ultra radical wall street journal where the actual commanders who will consult w/ whomever becomes president saying they will need tens of thousands of troops there until possibly 2012 and one of obamas advisors saying he would be comfortable w/ keeping 35,000 soldiers there.
obama's own website says he will keep soldiers there to fight al qaeda
as for the media...i'm sure you will dismiss them as ultra radical lairs, but just read chomsky's manufacturing consent, there's plenty of stuff proven in there about media manipulation.
and look at it more recent; nbc and the other xnbcs are owned or partially owned by GE, one of the biggest weapons manufacturers and they see an awful lot of money from things like war and reconstruction...why did phil donahue's show get canceled when it had higher ratings than hardball w/ chris matthews yet that show is still around?
and then here's one for ya...here's a report from FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting), one of the checks and balances you mentioned...
several officers from the US Army's 4th Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) Group at Ft. Bragg worked in the news division at CNN's Atlanta headquarters last year, starting in the final days of the Kosovo War.
you can read the rest there...here's cnn's reply saying they were just interns among hundreds of interns and really did nothing.... http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1745
and a counterpunch article on it w/ a link to another story on it and you can find one at commondreams as well as others...
from the counterpunch article above:
which described a military symposium in Arlington, Virginia, held at the beginning of February of this year, discussing use of the press in military operations. Colonel Christopher St John, commander of the US Army's 4th Psyops Group, was quoted by Intelligence On-Line's correspondent, present at the symposium, as having, in the correspondent's words, "called for greater cooperation between the armed forces and media giants. He pointed out that some army PSYOPS personnel had worked for CNN for several weeks and helped in the production of some news stories for the network."
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
That might make defense contractors happy, but that is far from what Obama and Clinton are selling. In a January debate, Clinton said, "I hope to have nearly all of them out within a year." Obama countered with his 16-month timetable because "It can't be muddy, it can't be fuzzy." Referring to the Iraqis, he said, "They've got to know that we are serious about this process."
That is in no way "far" from what they're selling. It is what they're selling. We have 140,000 troops in open combat there right now. If these candidates are saying that we'll have it down to 35,000 non-combat troops in 12 to 16 months, that isn't muddy or fuzzy - and it is nearly all of them.
I understand that you don't agree with that policy, that you believe the number of troops should be zero. But you also have to understand that those of us who are supporting Obama already know what his plan is. We haven't been mislead. Many of us agree that the troop levels can't be brought down to zero, and many of us are compromising on the best possible option.
what a piece of work this is.. hey abook, this is the type of radical bullshit I'm talking about. this guy decides to BOLD this..
and then posts this....
2 things to note here, Obama never said 40,000 troops will stay. and there is a big difference between...
40,000 troops to roam about the country and allow mercenary forces like Blackwater to operate above the law indefinitely..
vs
up to 40,000 soldiers staying for up to a decade, "providing embedded trainers to the Iraqi Security Forces as well as a continuing air power, special operations, intelligence, logistics capability."
If Kabong was never called out on it he would continue on thinking obama will let 40,000 troops raom around the country and shoot up the place with no regard for the law. HE TOOK THIS AS FACT. he went out of his way to BOLD it. now do you see where the problem lies? radical websites can say whatever they want with and most radical thinking people like this kabong guy will take it as fact without every checking. At least you seem to be smart enough to second guess everything and I respect you for it.
did you read the wall street journal piece yet?
Sen. Obama, on his Web site, says that the drawdowns would begin "immediately" and continue at a pace of one to two brigades -- which each normally number between 3,500 and 4,500 troops -- per month. He hopes to have all combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months of taking office, by the middle of 2010.
Obama foreign-policy adviser Dennis McDonough says the Democratic front-runner wants the residual U.S. forces to focus on counterterrorism -- largely directed against al Qaeda in Iraq, the homegrown extremist organization responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians -- and protecting the enormous U.S. embassy in Baghdad.
Mr. McDonough says Sen. Obama is open to leaving additional forces in Iraq to train and advise Iraqi security forces, but only if the Iraqi government takes steps to reconcile the country's sectarian groups. Absent such progress, Sen. Obama would halt the training effort, he said. "Our support wouldn't be open-ended," said Bill Burton, a spokesman for Sen. Obama.
Mr. McDonough declined to say how many troops Sen. Obama hoped to have in Iraq after the initial 16 months of withdrawals. But another senior adviser said that Mr. Obama was comfortable with a long-term U.S. troop presence of around five brigades, which -- depending on the numbers of support troops and other personnel -- would likely leave around 35,000 troops in Iraq
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
He hopes to have all combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months of taking office, by the middle of 2010.
Obama foreign-policy adviser Dennis McDonough says the Democratic front-runner wants the residual U.S. forces to focus on counterterrorism -- largely directed against al Qaeda in Iraq,
another senior adviser said that Mr. Obama was comfortable with a long-term U.S. troop presence of around five brigades, which -- depending on the numbers of support troops and other personnel -- would likely leave around 35,000 troops in Iraq
2 things to note here, Obama never said 40,000 troops will stay. and there is a big difference between...
40,000 troops to roam about the country and allow mercenary forces like Blackwater to operate above the law indefinitely..
vs
up to 40,000 soldiers staying for up to a decade, "providing embedded trainers to the Iraqi Security Forces as well as a continuing air power, special operations, intelligence, logistics capability."
I don't have much to add to this thread, but the title has me dying to share a bit of my family history:
Jim Jones was my mother's Social Studies teacher in Northern California.
Whenever asked, "What was he like?"
She responds very simply and with wry smile on her face,
CHARISMATIC
:D:p:D:D
I don't discount those who can speak well, but I listen to what they are saying to make sure I'm not missing the potential message between the lines or what they are saying by not saying it. Suave speakers are good at this.
Walking can be a real trip
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
not too much b/c blackwater is pretty much above the law in iraq as it is and obamas never voted to limit them, in fact i believe he's voted to keep things the way they are. whatever happened about those civilians blackwater killed a few months ago??
now if you show me something saying he's against the lawlessness of these private companies or that he will limit them...then i will see your point, othewise....
i will, however, say the original article could've worded it better, that no, it wasn't obama that said the 40,000 or even the 35,000 but the ppl he will be asking how many they need and one of his top advisors said that
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
So can you admit that the candidate isn't being hypocritical?
depends on how you're asking? do i think he's being hypocritical as far as his website? no. do i think he's a hypocrite in regards to the rhetoric he spouts to the ppl in person?? yes! read this board! some ppl think obama will end the war the minute he's elected and everyone will come him
do i think he's a hypocrite in terms of being anti-war? yuuuuup
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
well, i posted an article from the boston globe and one from the ultra radical wall street journal where the actual commanders who will consult w/ whomever becomes president saying they will need tens of thousands of troops there until possibly 2012 and one of obamas advisors saying he would be comfortable w/ keeping 35,000 soldiers there.
obama's own website says he will keep soldiers there to fight al qaeda
as for the media...i'm sure you will dismiss them as ultra radical lairs, but just read chomsky's manufacturing consent, there's plenty of stuff proven in there about media manipulation.
and look at it more recent; nbc and the other xnbcs are owned or partially owned by GE, one of the biggest weapons manufacturers and they see an awful lot of money from things like war and reconstruction...why did phil donahue's show get canceled when it had higher ratings than hardball w/ chris matthews yet that show is still around?
and then here's one for ya...here's a report from FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting), one of the checks and balances you mentioned...
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1748
several officers from the US Army's 4th Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) Group at Ft. Bragg worked in the news division at CNN's Atlanta headquarters last year, starting in the final days of the Kosovo War.
you can read the rest there...here's cnn's reply saying they were just interns among hundreds of interns and really did nothing....
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1745
and a counterpunch article on it w/ a link to another story on it and you can find one at commondreams as well as others...
from the counterpunch article above:
which described a military symposium in Arlington, Virginia, held at the beginning of February of this year, discussing use of the press in military operations. Colonel Christopher St John, commander of the US Army's 4th Psyops Group, was quoted by Intelligence On-Line's correspondent, present at the symposium, as having, in the correspondent's words, "called for greater cooperation between the armed forces and media giants. He pointed out that some army PSYOPS personnel had worked for CNN for several weeks and helped in the production of some news stories for the network."
http://www.counterpunch.org/cnnpsyops.html
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I understand that you don't agree with that policy, that you believe the number of troops should be zero. But you also have to understand that those of us who are supporting Obama already know what his plan is. We haven't been mislead. Many of us agree that the troop levels can't be brought down to zero, and many of us are compromising on the best possible option.
did you read the wall street journal piece yet?
Sen. Obama, on his Web site, says that the drawdowns would begin "immediately" and continue at a pace of one to two brigades -- which each normally number between 3,500 and 4,500 troops -- per month. He hopes to have all combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months of taking office, by the middle of 2010.
Obama foreign-policy adviser Dennis McDonough says the Democratic front-runner wants the residual U.S. forces to focus on counterterrorism -- largely directed against al Qaeda in Iraq, the homegrown extremist organization responsible for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians -- and protecting the enormous U.S. embassy in Baghdad.
Mr. McDonough says Sen. Obama is open to leaving additional forces in Iraq to train and advise Iraqi security forces, but only if the Iraqi government takes steps to reconcile the country's sectarian groups. Absent such progress, Sen. Obama would halt the training effort, he said. "Our support wouldn't be open-ended," said Bill Burton, a spokesman for Sen. Obama.
Mr. McDonough declined to say how many troops Sen. Obama hoped to have in Iraq after the initial 16 months of withdrawals. But another senior adviser said that Mr. Obama was comfortable with a long-term U.S. troop presence of around five brigades, which -- depending on the numbers of support troops and other personnel -- would likely leave around 35,000 troops in Iraq
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
So can you admit that the candidate isn't being hypocritical?
kabong, do you still not see the difference here?
Jim Jones was my mother's Social Studies teacher in Northern California.
Whenever asked, "What was he like?"
She responds very simply and with wry smile on her face,
CHARISMATIC
I don't discount those who can speak well, but I listen to what they are saying to make sure I'm not missing the potential message between the lines or what they are saying by not saying it. Suave speakers are good at this.
***********************
"We've laid the groundwork. It's like planting the seeds. And next year, it's spring." - Nader
***********************
Prepare for tending to your garden, America.
not too much b/c blackwater is pretty much above the law in iraq as it is and obamas never voted to limit them, in fact i believe he's voted to keep things the way they are. whatever happened about those civilians blackwater killed a few months ago??
now if you show me something saying he's against the lawlessness of these private companies or that he will limit them...then i will see your point, othewise....
i will, however, say the original article could've worded it better, that no, it wasn't obama that said the 40,000 or even the 35,000 but the ppl he will be asking how many they need and one of his top advisors said that
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
depends on how you're asking? do i think he's being hypocritical as far as his website? no. do i think he's a hypocrite in regards to the rhetoric he spouts to the ppl in person?? yes! read this board! some ppl think obama will end the war the minute he's elected and everyone will come him
do i think he's a hypocrite in terms of being anti-war? yuuuuup
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way