I'm questioning my education...

CorporateWhore

Liberals always want to have a strong central government and they want it to spend vast amounts of money on education.

This is what happens when you allow a vast central government to control the purse strings of your state educational systems. The federal government has no constitutional right to pass No Child Left Behind legislation, for example. As we can see, it shouldn't have that right for reasons like the original poster's article. Absolute power corrupts absolutely; therefore, when you allow the federal government too much power and don't disperse that power within the states, you cause it to express its own corrupt interests - like forcing a more "docile" electorate.

evenkat

CorporateWhore wrote:

Liberals always want to have a strong central government and they want it to spend vast amounts of money on education.

This is what happens when you allow a vast central government to control the purse strings of your state educational systems. The federal government has no constitutional right to pass No Child Left Behind legislation, for example. As we can see, it shouldn't have that right for reasons like the original poster's article. Absolute power corrupts absolutely; therefore, when you allow the federal government too much power and don't disperse that power within the states, you cause it to express its own corrupt interests - like forcing a more "docile" electorate.

A Republican majority in House, Republican majority in the Senate and a Republican President, passed the No Child Left Behind legislation.

This wasn't a liberal policy; it was Bush's baby, which is failing by the way.

cornnifer

Collin wrote:

Why count on someone else to do what you should be doing? Because, in my opinion, that's the whole idea of a school. You go out working to provide for your family. There are other people who learn how to teach and guide children. I expect teachers to be more than just a fact book, more than just a tool.
And when the child gets home I think it's the parent's job to elaborate on the information they got, listen to the child's ideas, teach them more about something, putting things in perspective...

It is a teacher's job to teach your children. It is YOUR job to raise them. If you think your job as a parent ends at going to work and bringing home a paycheck, i'm sorry, but you are sorrowfully mistaken. It is not the function of the school to raise your children, teach them values and provide them with opinions. It is the schools job to teach them to read, write, function mathematically and provide them with other basic skills. It is YOUR job to raise them. i'll tell you right now from experience, the children that excel in school are the ones whose parents are actively involved in the child's development. Children with parents who go to work to provide for the family, and leave everything else up to the school, struggle... big time.

surferdude

PaperPlates wrote:

The problem is that people think that's the govt. or the schools job. Its the parents job to teach their child how to process and use what the schools teach them. Schooling is only a tool. A good parent will raise a child and teach them HOW to think, evaluate, relate, and comprehend. Why count on someone else to do what you should be doing for your children yourself?

I agree with you 100%. I would not trust a single teacher with teaching my kid how to think. That involves the teaching of morals and I don't trust teachers for that. The how to think is the parents' job.

School is the place you go to acquire information,. give you framework on how to prepare for processing the information and then presenting info. The how to process information has to come from the parents as this is really where values and morals are taught and learned. I will not trust my son's values and morals to teachers, who for the most part are strangers who have no vested interest in my child.

I'll never be willing to relinquish the how to think responsibility to teachers. They didn't unionize (and sometimes go on strike) to look out for my and your kid's best interests. I'm not willing to throw my kid to the propoganda machine that wants schools to teach kids how to think just because so many parents don't take their responsibility seriously.

surferdude

evenkat wrote:

A Republican majority in House, Republican majority in the Senate and a Republican President, passed the No Child Left Behind legislation.

This wasn't a liberal policy; it was Bush's baby, which is failing by the way.

Actually almost every article I've read on the subject has been positive. They all agree that NCLB had a rough first couple years but they are now seeing the dividends of the plan, especially in inner-city schools and with special needs kids. Those kids that were most marginalized previously are seeing the greatest results of NCLB.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

But it is absurd for them to have to undo all the damage public schooling has done. .

Yeah, all that reading, writing and math damage. :rolleyes:
Honestly, what is absurd, is for the public school teacher to be expected to undo, in 6 1/2 to 7 hours a day to undo all the damage done to 25-30 kids in their fucked up homelife. It is absurd that they be expected to raise children. It is absurd to charge a teacher with 25 - 30 kids a year, many of who come to school hungry, dirty, abused, passed around from foster home to foster home because their parents either don't want them or are seriously unequipped to parent them, and then blame that teacher when all of those children don't perform well and say the public school system sucks.
The public school system isn't without its flaws, but an artist can only do so much with the media their given. You can't give Michelangelo a box of freakin' crayolas and expect the sistene chappel.

Abookamongstthemany

cornnifer wrote:

Yeah, all that reading, writing and math damage. :rolleyes:
Honestly, what is absurd, is for the public school teacher to be expected to undo, in 6 1/2 to 7 hours a day to undo all the damage done to 25-30 kids in their fucked up homelife. It is absurd that they be expected to raise children. It is absurd to charge a teacher with 25 - 30 kids a year, many of who come to school hungry, dirty, abused, passed around from foster home to foster home because their parents either don't want them or are seriously unequipped to parent them, and then blame that teacher when all of those children don't perform well and say the public school system sucks.
The public school system isn't without its flaws, but an artist can only do so much with the media their given. You can't give Michelangelo a box of freakin' crayolas and expect the sistene chappel.

A school teacher shouldn't be expected to do raise anyone and they do a good enough job at not doing anything meaningful in the lives of the students they teach unless they are really rare and break the mold. So why send kids there?

Here's a piece I agree with. Read it with an open mind, not an already made up one.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/hp/frames.htm

also:
http://www.nhen.org/dads/default.asp?id=383

Jeanwah

surferdude wrote:

Actually almost every article I've read on the subject has been positive. They all agree that NCLB had a rough first couple years but they are now seeing the dividends of the plan, especially in inner-city schools and with special needs kids. Those kids that were most marginalized previously are seeing the greatest results of NCLB.

As I pointed out to someone else, you don't know any teachers personally, do you? The NCLB act is a disaster. It's all about standardized testing and making sure all the kids hit the mark, otherwise that school won't qualify for funding. The teachers are forced to teach only what's on these tests, because these tests are the agenda for the funding. Because schools will do anything to get funding, they push the kids along into the next grade rather than deal with the blow that kids aren't learning, and furthermore, possibly not qualify for the funds they need. How many kids repeat grades anymore, like they used to? Not many. The NCLB is failing miserably. And I have a child with special needs. Although she's still in preschool, the NCLB isn't going to make anything better for her; it's up to the individual school district as to how to place her, and me to fight for her to be placed fairly.

1970RR

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

A school teacher shouldn't be expected to do raise anyone and they do a good enough job at not doing anything meaningful in the lives of the students they teach unless they are really rare and break the mold. So why send kids there?

Here's a piece I agree with. Read it with an open mind, not an already made up one.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/hp/frames.htm

also:
http://www.nhen.org/dads/default.asp?id=383

Interesting articles. My wife and I (actually more her) homeschool our 2 boys and the second link you listed pretty much sums up many of our reasons as well.

bionicamy

Jeanwah wrote:

As I pointed out to someone else, you don't know any teachers personally, do you? The NCLB act is a disaster. It's all about standardized testing and making sure all the kids hit the mark, otherwise that school won't qualify for funding. The teachers are forced to teach only what's on these tests, because these tests are the agenda for the funding. Because schools will do anything to get funding, they push the kids along into the next grade rather than deal with the blow that kids aren't learning, and furthermore, possibly not qualify for the funds they need. How many kids repeat grades anymore, like they used to? Not many. The NCLB is failing miserably. And I have a child with special needs. Although she's still in preschool, the NCLB isn't going to make anything better for her; it's up to the individual school district as to how to place her, and me to fight for her to be placed fairly.

NCLF is idiotic as many have said. There are school districts placing kids who may lower the test scores on standardized tests into learning support classrooms even though they are classified as true learning support children. They do not have a disability as defined by the state. This is done to ensure the school receives the funding.
Once those children are in the learning support classrooms they tend to fall further and further behind their classmates.

There are many parents who care about their children deeply and fight daily for their children to receive the education they deserve and the IEP's to simply be followed. It is a never ending battle because the administration at most school districts view the schools as a business. Things will never change when people are more concerned with the bottom line than our children.

PaperPlates

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Obviously parents play a huge role in the education and development of their children. But it is absurd for them to have to undo all the damage public schooling has done. These schools are useless and mind numbing for children yet we continously keep paying money year after year into a failing system.

Tell that to the thousands and thousands of students currently using this system, with the backing of their parents, who succeed and are above and beyond those children of other nations. This measurement of "our children are behind those of other nations" is an average. This doesn't indicate to me that the system is doing damage. It indicates to me that some of our youth use the system to their advantage, as do their parents, and some use it as very expensive babysitting.


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CorporateWhore

evenkat wrote:

A Republican majority in House, Republican majority in the Senate and a Republican President, passed the No Child Left Behind legislation.

This wasn't a liberal policy; it was Bush's baby, which is failing by the way.

I agree.

The democrats would've done worse.

cornnifer

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

A school teacher shouldn't be expected to do raise anyone and they do a good enough job at not doing anything meaningful in the lives of the students they teach unless they are really rare and break the mold. So why send kids there?

Here's a piece I agree with. Read it with an open mind, not an already made up one.
http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/hp/frames.htm

also:
http://www.nhen.org/dads/default.asp?id=383

Here's a suggestion. Get a fuckin teaching degree and spend some time in a some of the public school classrooms i've been in. Deal with the some of those kids and see how meaningless it is. i have one and i've done it! My wife has one and she does it! You act like you really know what the fuck you're talking about because you read some fucking magazine article, and then tell me to open MY mind. You,ve no place be telling ANYONE to open their mind, sis.

Pacomc79

Compelling arguments for home schooling in this thread.


I agree whole heartedly that critical thinking and life skills are not taught in public school at all and that is very much lacking.

Abookamongstthemany

cornnifer wrote:

Here's a suggestion. Get a fuckin teaching degree and spend some time in a some of the public school classrooms i've been in. Deal with the some of those kids and see how meaningless it is. i have one and i've done it! My wife has one and she does it! You act like you really know what the fuck you're talking about because you read some fucking magazine article, and then tell me to open MY mind. You,ve no place be telling ANYONE to open their mind, sis.

You have a serious problem controling yourself. Your posts are almost always irrate, defensive and hostile. I will not spend anymore time replying to you because it is like talking to a 2 year old throwing a tantrum. Grow up.

Abookamongstthemany

1970RR wrote:

Interesting articles. My wife and I (actually more her) homeschool our 2 boys and the second link you listed pretty much sums up many of our reasons as well.

I'm glad you enjoyed them. We have been reading a lot on this lately. At first I was very skeptical and thought these kids would grow up missing out but after all that I have read I completely changed my mind on the matter.

Abuskedti

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The problem with schools is that they don't teach a child how to think instead they teach a child what to think. They grow up not knowing how to process what they experience and apply it. Experience is the only true way to learn. It is very destructive to day after day instill upon children just one way is correct and they must at all times submit to that authority.

I think fear of lawsuits has contributed to the delcine. The public school system is an elaborate day care program. Teachers are underpaid because they are not expected to think

cornnifer

chiefojibwa wrote:

talk to some people in the education system. NCLB is a catastrophic failure.

Talk to someone in the education system?! I am in the education system. When did i even comment on, let alone give an endorsement of NCLB? Honestly, i'd say its a joke. Most of my peers would agree. What has that got to do with people coming here and spouting off about stuff they know absolutely nothing about. "some kids said they don't like school..." Well gee, there's some news! Must be because the public school sytem is designed to brainwash children and teachers don't know how to think.
Let me give you a scenario or two. A teacher friend of mine has one student, fifth grader, for a year or two, he lived homeless with his meth addict mother
in a car washing in quicktrip bathrooms and never changing clothes. After a while mother declares to the child "i don't want you anymore and splits leaving this boy with an aunt. Same teacher services another boy. First grader after numerous CPS calls due to various degrees of abuse and neglect has the child removed to foster care pending parenting classes. Mother declares "classes?! Fuck that. If i have to take a class, I don't want him. Keep him". And splits. Thats the reality of public schools. Overall, i'd say they do pretty well.
I've already stated i have no problem with homeschooling if its done properly. Its a viable option for those who choose it. Don't come on here, however, flappin' your jaws about public schools messing up kids, doing nothing meaningful, and teachers not knowing how to think, because you read a magazine article. Open MY mind? Please.

cincybearcat

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

I'm glad you enjoyed them. We have been reading a lot on this lately. At first I was very skeptical and thought these kids would grow up missing out but after all that I have read I completely changed my mind on the matter.

I'll read the articles later...my thoughts before hand...

Public school offers kids what they need in order to learn and grow, but it is up to the parents to prepare their kids in such a way that the kids can break trhough some of the barriers and succeed. The barriers mainly being crowded classrooms, disruptive students, and sometimes aub=par teaching.

Home schooling allows a child to learn in a 'safe' environment which increase creativity and promotes out of the box thinking. This has some great benefits. It also can lead to a kid that has a hard time dealing with other people and living in the real world where criticism exists and can be severe.

Like I said, that's my thoughts based on what I have seen, read, etc. so far. I'll check out the article to see if it changes my opinion any.

ThumbingMyWay32

El_Kabong wrote:

we have one of the worst educational systems in the fucking world...how can the world's ONLY superpower, the richest nation, the most powerful nation, how can we be so far behind everyone else?

This may be a stupid question, but numbers aside, how can the world's lone superpower be so far behind everyone else? Anyone ever think about what work ethic means to a society?

Or is this just another number crunching, hate America thread?

I mean, we're not even the best at basketball anymore.