culture is not your friend

Hoon

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

"On February 7, 2007, Terence McKenna's library of rare books and personal notes were destroyed in a fire started in an Quizno's Alvarado Street sandwich shop in Monterey, California. The fire moved onto including Goomba’s Italian Restaurant, a Starbucks, and some storage offices belonging to Big Sur’s Esalen Institute, a human potential movement and upscale New Age resort."

And he was quite a collector of very rare books, must have been an interesting variety. His brother has a list of what was in it. Sad.

~~~
For those who know about TimeWaveZero there was some talk that this event may have had a temporal resonance with the destruction of the Library of Alexandria.

Bu2

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

"On February 7, 2007, Terence McKenna's library of rare books and personal notes were destroyed in a fire started in an Quizno's Alvarado Street sandwich shop in Monterey, California. The fire moved onto including Goomba’s Italian Restaurant, a Starbucks, and some storage offices belonging to Big Sur’s Esalen Institute, a human potential movement and upscale New Age resort."

God, I miss California.

I like what the man had to say (and I don't care if he was "quote" nasal). I love people who make you think outside of the box. I love people who remind us that our commercial culture is just that...commercial.

FinsburyParkCarrots

Bu2 wrote:

God, I miss California.

I like what the man had to say (and I don't care if he was "quote" nasal). I love people who make you think outside of the box. I love people who remind us that our commercial culture is just that...commercial.

But it was ever thus. You should see photographs of nineteenth century London. Whole walls were covered in advertisements. You'll see hundreds of billposters, obviously slapped over each other in mindbogglingly rapid succession. And if you ever see facsimiles of Dickens's publication All The Year Round - which serialised novels dealing with social issues such as poverty, infant mortality, the effect of colonial, corporate expansionism on family morality and relationships, and the complex, displacing effects on railway mania and the growth of London - you'll still pick up a periodical almost overwhelmed by ads. Great art can come from the marketplace, and often sound its world-changing voice only because of the marketplace and consumer demand for product.

Bu2

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

But it was ever thus. You should see photographs of nineteenth century London. Whole walls were covered in advertisements. You'll see hundreds of billposters, obviously slapped over each other in mindbogglingly rapid succession. And if you ever see facsimiles of Dickens's publication All The Year Round - which serialised novels dealing with social issues such as poverty, infant mortality, the effect of colonial, corporate expansionism on family morality and relationships, and the complex, displacing effects on railway mania and the growth of London - you'll still pick up a periodical almost overwhelmed by ads. Great art can come from the marketplace, and often sound its world-changing voice only because of the marketplace and consumer demand for product.

Last week the news had some criticism or other for a designer who's ads portray sleek, sexy models tanning on a beach with the skyline of Manhattan sticking out of the sand.....reminiscent of the original "Planet of the Apes" scene where the Statue of Liberty is barely poking herself out of the sand. I wish I could remember the name of the designer, but he/she was obviously making a statement about global warming. I'm not against that kind of commercial awareness at all. I'm against the sheep who just blindly take whatever soundbites the commercial news programs feed them, and don't do their research.

Is it too late to add a smiley to my comment to make it sweeter?

FinsburyParkCarrots

Bu2 wrote:

I'm against the sheep who just blindly take whatever soundbites the commercial news programs feed them, and don't do their research.

Well, that's opening up a debate about news rather than arts and culture, which I still like to see as separate (though many commercial news programmers deliberately blur the distinction about what constitutes news).

I was listening to a debate the other day, about the argument that BBC Radio 4's Today programme - which used to be strongly political and critical of Blair's government - is now featuring more pap, fluff filler, which the station's arts programmes could easily cover very adequately. It seemed, by audience feedback, that the programme's bosses are supplying this crap contrarily to, and almost in spite of, demand. I think that sheep who take whatever shite are thrown at them are in a minority. It's easy to blanket-term people unthinking, but that makes one guilty of a kind of cultural elitism which I find suspect. I think the majority will vote with their off buttons.

bootlegger10

Cheguevara6 wrote:

the whole culture is sick. All of it. I am for tearing up the roads and the concrete and planting flowers and food. I am for destroying civilization, and returning to our roots, a million plus small communes of maybe 20 people each. I am for the destruction of all oil, cars, and modern appliances.

The only way things will get better is if and when the revolution comes and we all are living in communes with no electricity, no cars, no oil, no tvs or computers, no roads, no wars.

You act like there was a time where things were perfect. There were wars in every era of civilization (even before electricity, roads, computers, planes, cars, trains, guns, missiles, constitutions). There is nothing new under the sun. I understand you have these ideals, but if we get rid of laws and civilations, it will end up every man for himself, and be even more barbaric than you think it is now. The strong will survive, the weak will disappear. Not to mention medically we will revert back about 300 years.

There is a reason that laws and constitutions were written. Why kingdoms were formed. Because the every man for himself philosophy did not work.

In order for your dream to work, humans have to be inherently good. That's never going to happen. There will always be leaders, and always be followers. There will always be jealousy of your neighbors.

El_Kabong

soulsinging wrote:

they're like mtv spring break and aol chatrooms were in the 90s.

and i'm sure relavent, useful, trutful, valid info got passed around on aol chatrooms...what avenue of communication would be acceptable for you? a pearl jam message board?

Byrnzie

Cheguevara6 wrote:

the whole culture is sick. All of it. I am for tearing up the roads and the concrete and planting flowers and food. I am for destroying civilization, and returning to our roots, a million plus small communes of maybe 20 people each. I am for the destruction of all oil, cars, and modern appliances.

The only way things will get better is if and when the revolution comes and we all are living in communes with no electricity, no cars, no oil, no tvs or computers, no roads, no wars.

Its not enough to be against the war or against the current occupant of the white house. Its not just the idea of Iraq that is wrong, its not just the idea of this culture that is wrong. Its the entire idea of civilization that is wrong.

I will be on the front lines with my rake and shovels, and picks, and axes and will be tearing up concrete when the revolution goes down...

Progress is a joke. It is impossible to continue at our current rate. Something has to give and will. Most scientists suggest that we have 10 years, yes kids 10 years, until the full effects of global warming take shape. We all must join communes and start growing food in our gardens. Its silly to go to the goddamn store and buy corn that some latino laborer picked, and got 10 cents for, while breaking his or her back in the sun all day. We have to grow our own food.

It makes complete sense, once you realize oil is running out, salmon are running out, and the world is in danger of killing itself, the appropriate actions can be taken.

I say, sell the tv and appliances, turn off the tv, and tune in. Tune into the things that dont broadcast in radio or tv waves. The joy of god is the form of his discovery!

So you're something of a moderate then?

soulsinging

El_Kabong wrote:

and i'm sure relavent, useful, trutful, valid info got passed around on aol chatrooms...what avenue of communication would be acceptable for you? a pearl jam message board?

oh i dont care where you got the info from, i just like pop culture. reminded me of the good old days of being in junior high and trying to find girls to talk dirty to

baraka

"We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less wellness.

These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. "

~George Carlin

Ahnimus

I feel that we have freedom to blame for many of our problems. With the freedom to make choices, we depend on our influences to guide us down the right path. Culture and Society are major factors in our processes of deliberation.

It may seem odd, but in the back of my mind, I understand the good of world-dictatorship, slavery and force. Just as China grew from war to become a proud and powerful nation.

Happiness is not born from material possessions, recognition, wealth or even love. It is birthed in the mind, in the prefrontal cortex, where the only requirement is the desire to live. We tell ourselves, in our slavery and under this dictatorship, that we are happy, and so we are.

Then I ask, what is better for the whole? Is it not what is undesirable for the individual? How can we choose what is in the interest of everyone, when the greatest influence on us, is ourselves and our self-servant nature.

Abookamongstthemany

soulsinging wrote:

oh i dont care where you got the info from, i just like pop culture. reminded me of the good old days of being in junior high and trying to find girls to talk dirty to

You must use youtube differently than I do.

Everyone these days is using it because it is an easy way to post information and view it. If I want to see a clip from the daily show last week, one click and I'm there. If I want look up lectures by Howard Zinn same thing. It's an amazing new form of information sharing. The negatives of commercialism don't come close to outweighing the benefits in this case.

soulsinging

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

You must use youtube differently than I do.

Everyone these days is using it because it is an easy way to post information and view it. If I want to see a clip from the daily show last week, one click and I'm there. If I want look up lectures by Howard Zinn same thing. It's an amazing new form of information sharing. The negatives of commercialism don't come close to outweighing the benefits in this case.

im not disputing that, i was just going on a tangent inspired by that dude's post. my main point is the dude in the original video is a freaking wierdo.

RainDog

Cheguevara6 wrote:

the whole culture is sick. All of it. I am for tearing up the roads and the concrete and planting flowers and food. I am for destroying civilization, and returning to our roots, a million plus small communes of maybe 20 people each. I am for the destruction of all oil, cars, and modern appliances.

The only way things will get better is if and when the revolution comes and we all are living in communes with no electricity, no cars, no oil, no tvs or computers, no roads, no wars.

Its not enough to be against the war or against the current occupant of the white house. Its not just the idea of Iraq that is wrong, its not just the idea of this culture that is wrong. Its the entire idea of civilization that is wrong.

I will be on the front lines with my rake and shovels, and picks, and axes and will be tearing up concrete when the revolution goes down...

Jesus, dude. How would you go about keeping this society locked into those ideals? What if one of those "new" farmers builds a tractor? How about doctors? Under medieval conditions, I'm kind of close to the end of my expected lifespan. What if I want to live past 40? Or take an aspirin?

Shit, what if I want to listen to music? I know it would be possible for Pearl Jam to put on acoustic shows under this new regime - but when would they have time to tour (no albums anymore, after all), what with all the work they have to put into their cilantro and rutabaga farms?

soulsinging

RainDog wrote:

Jesus, dude. How would you go about keeping this society locked into those ideals? What if one of those "new" farmers builds a tractor? How about doctors? Under medieval conditions, I'm kind of close to the end of my expected lifespan. What if I want to live past 40? Or take an aspirin?

Shit, what if I want to listen to music? I know it would be possible for Pearl Jam to put on acoustic shows under this new regime - but when would they have time to tour (no albums anymore, after all), what with all the work they have to put into their cilantro and rutabaga farms?

dont you understand, he only wants the parts of culture that HE deems are acceptable and desirable. digital technology that allows him to spew this nonsense on here is ok. pearl jam's electric guitars and the power to amp them is ok. but the business necessary to provide that power is inherently evil and should be done away with. luckily for all of us, im pretty sure che has the magical incantation taught by the commune elders to draw electricity out of the air, so the pearl jam show is on!

El_Kabong

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Art embodies tensions between conflicting ideologies, residual, dominant and emergent. It very often necessarily depends on print capitalism and patronage, to put forward the heady clash between conservative discourses and radical potentiality.

Take Shakespeare. In 1601 there was a rebellion against Queen Elizabeth I, led by the Earl of Essex. On the eve of the planned uprising, the Earl's supporters/co-conspirators asked Shakespeare's theatre company, the Lord Chamberlain's Men (based at the Globe Theatre), to restage their old play about the deposition of a monarch, The Tragedy of King Richard the Second (c. 1595). Queen Elizabeth got the point: she said, "I am Richard II, know ye not that?" High profile, establishment artists put on a play about the deposition of a monarch on the eve of a planned deposition: culture is someone's friend, there, and it's not the patron's. (Don't forget that when Elizabeth died, the company became The King's Men, and Macbeth is often argued to have subtle digs at the witch-hunter James I's expense.)

Think about this: art is a tool of revolution but it is very often ironically licensed by the highest echelons of State. It can simultaneously be an ideological-domination effect of State-controlled "culture", but it can still contain elements of subversion. How does it subvert? By being out there in the public eye, and clever about its ability to subvert the dominant from within.

I don't think McKenna was thinking clearly here, and I've taken more acid than he ever did.

i don't think that's how he meant it

this is just over 2 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARIG-BQRATs

in it he says something to the effect of 'stop consuming culture, start creating your own'

lucylespian

Ahnimus wrote:

I feel that we have freedom to blame for many of our problems. With the freedom to make choices, we depend on our influences to guide us down the right path. Culture and Society are major factors in our processes of deliberation.

It may seem odd, but in the back of my mind, I understand the good of world-dictatorship, slavery and force. Just as China grew from war to become a proud and powerful nation.

Happiness is not born from material possessions, recognition, wealth or even love. It is birthed in the mind, in the prefrontal cortex, where the only requirement is the desire to live. We tell ourselves, in our slavery and under this dictatorship, that we are happy, and so we are.

Then I ask, what is better for the whole? Is it not what is undesirable for the individual? How can we choose what is in the interest of everyone, when the greatest influence on us, is ourselves and our self-servant nature.

I pretty much agree here. I consider there is an inverse relationship between what is good for individuals and societies. The more individual expresion and wants are indulged, teh worse off societies are. Societies have more integrity where indiviuals are less indulged. ( Sorry for the crap syntax here) .
Striking a balance here is really important. In Australia we have a conservative NAtional government which is like a general overseeing the army as a whole, and every state has a Labor government, which i perceive as being like sergent major's looknign after the individual soldiers at a platoon level. It seems to be working pretty well. Interestingly, all those parties are current ly winning by massive majorities, which means therea are an awful lot of people voting diffenent parties at different levels of govenrment.

catefrances

soulsinging wrote:

he was. the solution to the world's problems is we all need to sit down and fingerpaint?

metaphorically perhaps we do.

but literally speaking, i know you could do with some creative therapy at times, it seems conor. getting immersed in paint is very cathartic for those who choose to allow it.

cornnifer

Cheguevara6 wrote:

the whole culture is sick. All of it. I am for tearing up the roads and the concrete and planting flowers and food. I am for destroying civilization, and returning to our roots, a million plus small communes of maybe 20 people each. I am for the destruction of all oil, cars, and modern appliances.

The only way things will get better is if and when the revolution comes and we all are living in communes with no electricity, no cars, no oil, no tvs or computers, no roads, no wars.

Its not enough to be against the war or against the current occupant of the white house. Its not just the idea of Iraq that is wrong, its not just the idea of this culture that is wrong. Its the entire idea of civilization that is wrong.

I will be on the front lines with my rake and shovels, and picks, and axes and will be tearing up concrete when the revolution goes down...

Progress is a joke. It is impossible to continue at our current rate. Something has to give and will. Most scientists suggest that we have 10 years, yes kids 10 years, until the full effects of global warming take shape. We all must join communes and start growing food in our gardens. Its silly to go to the goddamn store and buy corn that some latino laborer picked, and got 10 cents for, while breaking his or her back in the sun all day. We have to grow our own food.

It makes complete sense, once you realize oil is running out, salmon are running out, and the world is in danger of killing itself, the appropriate actions can be taken.

I say, sell the tv and appliances, turn off the tv, and tune in. Tune into the things that dont broadcast in radio or tv waves. The joy of god is the form of his discovery!

All of this posted on a messageboard from a freaking COMPUTER kind of makes you a fish in a barrel, i'm afraid. i'll refrain from actually calling you out as hypocritical, but to save face, you better be running, like, windows 95 or something previous.