This is Not Good...

Cosmo

... for the U.S.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061127/ts_nm/iraq_dc
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TEHRAN (Reuters) - President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran would do whatever it could to help provide security to Iraq amid warnings the country was on the brink of civil war.

Ahmadinejad made the pledge at the start of a visit to Iran by Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, whose trip was delayed for two days because of a curfew imposed after a bombing on Thursday killed 202 people in a Shi'ite Muslim stronghold. The curfew was lifted on Monday.

The United States is facing calls to engage Tehran in direct dialogue to help end the bloodshed, which U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan said had pushed Iraq closer to civil war.

"The Iranian nation and government will definitely stand beside their brother, Iraq, and any help the government and nation of Iran can give to strengthen security in Iraq will be given," Ahmadinejad said, Iran's ISNA news agency reported.

"We have no limitation for cooperation in any field."

Ahmadinejad was speaking shortly after Talabani's arrival and just before the two presidents held formal talks.
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If you keep fumbling and fumbling the ball time and time again... even the worst player on the field has a chance of picking it up and running in for a score.
We should have been paying closer attention to Iraq and not allowed the Bush/Rove machine to divert our attention with Gay Marriages, steroids in baseball and the worthlessness of Navy Bronze Stars. We have only ourselves to blame for that one.
I'm guessing... President Bush's legacy will be the 'Man who handed Iraq to Iran'.

robbie

"the man who handed iraq to iran" very true. so now to ponder if the world is a better place without saddam. is the world truely a better place when iran swallows up iraq? is Ahmadinejad as ruler of iraq and iran a better option than saddam leading iraq? and what of our armed forces? we cannot stand up to iran. i suppose we could just nuke the whole place, all of iran, all of iraq, just kill em' all. i wonder what the terrorist response to a nuklear attack on muslim nations would be? we cannot attck iran/iraq with ground troops, because the insugency would be 100 times worse than what we are dealing with now. if we overthrow the Ahmadinwjad govenment, who do we put in charge, or do we allow an even larger civil war decide who rules iran/iraq? and being as nobody will support such a war after this debacle, makes our options even more limeted. we allowed north korea to become a nuklear state even thouth mr. rough tough cowboy talker said he would not stand for it. iraq is well on its way to joining the nuke club as well, and we are impotent to do anything about it. in fact, we are handing iran an entire other country, with an enourmous amount of oil to add to their power and resorces. what george w bush has done with this war is to create a mideast superpower enemy of the united states and called it "making the world a safer place"..... and alot of people still think he is doing a great job. 33 motherfucking percent of people polled still support this guy. what does he have to do to make that 33 percent wake up????? i simply cannot believe 33 out of 100 people still think he is doing a great job..... unfucking real......

enharmonic

Iran will not swallow up Iraq. Iran is a relatively peaceful nation from the inside by comparison. I would suspect that Iran has no interest in borrowing Iraq's troubles...anymore than Iran cares to have an unstable nation on a critical border. The USA military is already in Iraq en masse...and can be on Iran's southern border in minutes by fighter plane.

Iran is quietly crapping its pants, and will do anything it can to avoid a protracted American military presence on her border.

Cosmo

enharmonic wrote:

Iran will not swallow up Iraq. Iran is a relatively peaceful nation from the inside by comparison. I would suspect that Iran has no interest in borrowing Iraq's troubles...anymore than Iran cares to have an unstable nation on a critical border. The USA military is already in Iraq en masse...and can be on Iran's southern border in minutes by fighter plane.

Iran is quietly crapping its pants, and will do anything it can to avoid a protracted American military presence on her border.

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If Iran can broker peace in Iraq... or at least a cease fire... they come out smelling like fucking daisies. If this happens, Iran (a Shi'ite dominated Nation) may be able to entend its influence to the 60% Majority Shi'ites in Iraq. What happens when Iraq asks the U.S to leave? Do we do as they wish, or oppose their wishes and stay? That does NOT leave us minutes away from the Iranian border anymore.
The worst case scenario I can see in Iraq is Muqtada al Sadr siding with his Iranian brethren and agreeing to do as they say. This would lead towards a Shi'ite Controlled, Iran/Iraq alliance sitting on one of the largest accessible oil reserves on the planet.
That CAN'T be a good thing from our standpoint... can it?

enharmonic

Not at all, but do we deserve anything less? we've been sticking it to Iran for a very long time, and are trying to do it again over the nuclear issue (which is justifiable IMO).

I don't think it's a good idea for any religious faction to be oppressed. People put so much into what they believe, that they'll die for it. when you start messing with that, you're just borrowing time on a ticking time bomb.

The nonviolent solution for us is to get away from oil, but that will never ever happen.

bryanfury

i believe Iran is going to use this as their chance to show their real power. to do what we cannot do, in bringing peace to Iraq. Its their chance to show that they are THE middle east power. If they can stabalize that area, and stand up to us at the same time, then they just might succeed.

way to go George!!!

Cosmo

enharmonic wrote:

Not at all, but do we deserve anything less? we've been sticking it to Iran for a very long time, and are trying to do it again over the nuclear issue (which is justifiable IMO).

I don't think it's a good idea for any religious faction to be oppressed. People put so much into what they believe, that they'll die for it. when you start messing with that, you're just borrowing time on a ticking time bomb.

The nonviolent solution for us is to get away from oil, but that will never ever happen.

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I completely agree. Oil is like the fucking tar pits that fucked up the Woolly Mammoths and Sabre-Toothed Tigers and shit... we need to get away from that shit and let those other countries get stuck in the mire.
And I fear that our miscalculations and mishandling and false stories of how rosey it is in Iraq are leading them towards an Iranian solution. No one believes Iran will welcome the American Military to stay... do they? We won't have to worry about 'Cut and Run' when the Shi'ite controlled Iraqi Government tells us to leave.

rebornFixer

I'd be shocked if Iran could broker a real piece in Iraq. Its almost impossible, I would say. The Sunnis would never have it ... Members of Saddam's former government would never have it. The Kurds loathe the Iranians. The only group in Iraq friendly with Iran are the Shi'ites. A majority, granted, but one that lacks the political or military power to suppress all the groups that hate Iran. I agree that Iranian involvement in Iraq would be a disaster for all concerned, but I don't see it happening ... Or at least, I don't see it working out in Iran's favour.

Cosmo

reborncareerist wrote:

I'd be shocked if Iran could broker a real piece in Iraq. Its almost impossible, I would say. The Sunnis would never have it ... Members of Saddam's former government would never have it. The Kurds loathe the Iranians. The only group in Iraq friendly with Iran are the Shi'ites. A majority, granted, but one that lacks the political or military power to suppress all the groups that hate Iran. I agree that Iranian involvement in Iraq would be a disaster for all concerned, but I don't see it happening ... Or at least, I don't see it working out in Iran's favour.

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I tell you, dude... this one is scary.
And it's sort of funny... in a ''Pulp Fiction' guy accidentally getting shot in the face' funny... that the formerly oppressive Sunnis are the ones that Westerners are rooting for because the basically Fundamentalist, Ayatollah Khomeni/Muqtada al Sadr, Iranian Shi'ites are far more anti-American and will have access to nuclear technology are way scarier. This enemy of my enemy is my worst enemy.
I'm all for peace and an end of the killing and all... but, if Iran can pull this one off... which I am optimistically hoping they cannot... then, we are leaving our kids a real fucking mess to deal with.

kenny olav

so as not to derail this thread by changing the subject, I'm moving this comment to its own thread

hrd2imgn

robbie wrote:

"...and what of our armed forces? we cannot stand up to iran. ....

when the liberal media gets off our Militaries ass we cannot be defeated by anyone or anything. When our hands are tied trying to be a politcally correct force, WE get killed. When will you all realize we are at war with a opposition with one goal---> OUR DESTRUCTION

These people WANT TO DIE fighting and killing us, we want to live. How do you defeat an opponent who wants to die versus your will to live???? It is time to get hardcore with these fuckers and quit trying to play nice with world opinion. What did we have to do to defeat the Nazis? Bomb them and everything around them into the stone age. It is a war, and innocent people die in war, as long as they continue to let these mad people live amongst them they should be put on notice, hide them and you will die with them.

We lost a lot of good people on 9/11, and the more we try to tip-toe thourgh war the more or our soldiers that get killed.

Wrong or right, we are there, we better get the job done, and do it by any means necessary. If we run from them now they will only be empowed and emboldened more. We must stand course, support our real heros n ithe armed forces, and kill every one of those facist maniacs. They would not hesitate to cut your head off with a fucking sword, why should we hesitate in getting them first?

the fuse has been lit.........

jeffbr

robbie wrote:

and what of our armed forces? we cannot stand up to iran.

Total bullshit. You're confusing political ineptness with military might. We had no problem cutting through Saddam's army like a hot knife through butta. We could do the same thing to Iran's. It is post-shock&awe where things got muddied by the politicians. No objectives, no exit strategy, no political will, no mandate or popular support.

I'm not and never have been in favor of us being in Iraq, and certainly don't want to start anything with Iran. But it shows an incredible lack of understanding to think that the U.S. military couldn't have their way with either Iraq or Iran or both.

hrd2imgn

If we can defeat cold war Russia will can defeat anytihng if we have the will.

Will is the key word....willl we allow our troops to finish what they started?

Vedderlution_Baby

hrd2imgn wrote:

when the liberal media gets off our Militaries ass we cannot be defeated by anyone or anything. When our hands are tied trying to be a politcally correct force, WE get killed. When will you all realize we are at war with a opposition with one goal---> OUR DESTRUCTION

These people WANT TO DIE fighting and killing us, we want to live. How do you defeat an opponent who wants to die versus your will to live???? It is time to get hardcore with these fuckers and quit trying to play nice with world opinion. What did we have to do to defeat the Nazis? Bomb them and everything around them into the stone age. It is a war, and innocent people die in war, as long as they continue to let these mad people live amongst them they should be put on notice, hide them and you will die with them.

We lost a lot of good people on 9/11, and the more we try to tip-toe thourgh war the more or our soldiers that get killed.

Wrong or right, we are there, we better get the job done, and do it by any means necessary. If we run from them now they will only be empowed and emboldened more. We must stand course, support our real heros n ithe armed forces, and kill every one of those facist maniacs. They would not hesitate to cut your head off with a fucking sword, why should we hesitate in getting them first?

the fuse has been lit.........

What would you do?

gue_barium

bryanfury wrote:

i believe Iran is going to use this as their chance to show their real power. to do what we cannot do, in bringing peace to Iraq. Its their chance to show that they are THE middle east power. If they can stabalize that area, and stand up to us at the same time, then they just might succeed.

way to go George!!!

In a way I agree with you. Peace, on the other hand, "In the Middle East" is something too many are interested in. As if it has a true cost.

enharmonic

hrd2imgn wrote:

If we can defeat cold war Russia will can defeat anytihng if we have the will.

Will is the key word....willl we allow our troops to finish what they started?

We're not giving them what they need to finish the job right now...I don't see how that will get any better the further we go into debt :(

RainDog

hrd2imgn wrote:

If we can defeat cold war Russia will can defeat anytihng if we have the will.

Will is the key word....willl we allow our troops to finish what they started?

They started into Iraq to get rid of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction. Unfortunately, that finish line was just an illusion. It's actually further on down - but it can't been seen because of the heat rising off the track.

What exactly are they supposed to "finish"? Oh, wait. I know. "The Job."

And what, exactly, is "the Job"? Why, it's what the troops were sent there to "finish."

Cosmo

hrd2imgn wrote:

when the liberal media gets off our Militaries ass we cannot be defeated by anyone or anything. When our hands are tied trying to be a politcally correct force, WE get killed. When will you all realize we are at war with a opposition with one goal---> OUR DESTRUCTION

These people WANT TO DIE fighting and killing us, we want to live. How do you defeat an opponent who wants to die versus your will to live???? It is time to get hardcore with these fuckers and quit trying to play nice with world opinion. What did we have to do to defeat the Nazis? Bomb them and everything around them into the stone age. It is a war, and innocent people die in war, as long as they continue to let these mad people live amongst them they should be put on notice, hide them and you will die with them.

We lost a lot of good people on 9/11, and the more we try to tip-toe thourgh war the more or our soldiers that get killed.

Wrong or right, we are there, we better get the job done, and do it by any means necessary. If we run from them now they will only be empowed and emboldened more. We must stand course, support our real heros n ithe armed forces, and kill every one of those facist maniacs. They would not hesitate to cut your head off with a fucking sword, why should we hesitate in getting them first?

the fuse has been lit.........

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Last time i checked... the Liberal (a.k.a. "Jew") Media doesn't create policy or direct military action. This on falls squarely on the shoulders of the 'Commander in Chief'. If he is listening to the Liberal (a.k.a "Jew") Media to direct his military actions for his political survival... who is at fault, here?
And we did Bomb Viet Nam into the Stone Age... what happened there? If it worked out so great there, it should work out great here, right?
And isn't the mission to 'Save The Poor Oppressed Iraqis'? How does bombing them save them? Or... DOES bombing them, save them?
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you know how you 'Get The Job Done'? Try definging what exactly the 'Job' is:
Toppling Hussein? Check.
Capturing Hussein and turning him over for trial? Check.
Set up Free Elections? Check.
Train 3000,000 Iraqi Security Forces? Check.
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What else do you want our military to do?
Stop a Civil War from breaking out? Sorry, too late.
Force them to stop killing each other by killing them all? Who appointed us as their God?

Cosmo

jeffbr wrote:

Total bullshit. You're confusing political ineptness with military might. We had no problem cutting through Saddam's army like a hot knife through butta. We could do the same thing to Iran's. It is post-shock&awe where things got muddied by the politicians. No objectives, no exit strategy, no political will, no mandate or popular support.

I'm not and never have been in favor of us being in Iraq, and certainly don't want to start anything with Iran. But it shows an incredible lack of understanding to think that the U.S. military couldn't have their way with either Iraq or Iran or both.

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I agree in your assessment of our military. I do not believe there is a single force that stand up to us because we have the technology and trainning and the resources avaiiable to escalate up nuclear obliteration.
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BUT, where would we stage this force? Iraq? With Iraqi Shi'ites covering our backs? Wuold YOU trust them? HELL NO!!! Those fuckers would probably shoot you in the back... they hold no alliance to us.
How about Saudi Arabia... home of the majority of the September 11, 2001 hi-jackers? Afghanistan? We'd have to win that one all over again before steeing up shop there.
We've kinda screwed ourselves... no... screwed our MILITARY. They are the ones paying the price... them and their families... that's it. The rest of us can sit on our asses and demand tax cuts and lower gas prices. Those guys are the ones on the lines... not US.