what's a "liberal"...?

inmytree
inmytree Posts: 4,741
edited November 2006 in A Moving Train
I'm serious...I see and hear the term all the time...while I understand the term has a negative connotation, at the same time, it's pretty subjective...

I'm really curious as to what it "means"....
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    inmytree wrote:
    I'm serious...I see and hear the term all the time...while I understand the term has a negative connotation, at the same time, it's pretty subjective...

    I'm really curious as to what it "means"....
    Someone who believes that government has the answer to all your problems, even in the face of empirical evidence that shows otherwise.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    This is a link to Sen. John F. Kennedy's speach upon his acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination in 1960.

    http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/whatis.html

    This will give you an idea of what is SHOULD mean.

    Briefly taken from the above:
    "But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    surferdude wrote:
    Someone who believes that government has the answer to all your problems, even in the face of empirical evidence that shows otherwise.

    by this definition...I'm not a liberal...

    the key word here is "all"....
  • RainDog
    RainDog Posts: 1,824
    It means whatever someone on the right wants it to mean at any given time.
    Terrorist.
    Pinko.
    Nazi.
    French person.
    Immigrant.
    Homosexual.
    Canadian.
    News anchor.
    the "Blame America First" crowd.

    Even surferdude above seems to think he knows what a liberal is, even though his comment clearly shows he doesn't. Or, it could just be turned around - like, "a conservative is someone who believes that big business has the answer to all your problems, self regulation is the way to go, and the rich are too poor, even in the face of empirical evidence that shows otherwise."

    The definition of liberal, however? There are a few, like:
    *favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    *favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
    *favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression.
    *of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
    *open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
    *characterized by generosity.

    And that was just from one dictionary website.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    RainDog wrote:
    French person.

    :eek: ;)

    I don't mind.... :D
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    redrock wrote:
    This is a link to Sen. John F. Kennedy's speach upon his acceptance of the New York Liberal Party Nomination in 1960.

    http://www.cjnetworks.com/~cubsfan/whatis.html

    This will give you an idea of what is SHOULD mean.

    Briefly taken from the above:
    "But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."


    great read...thanks...

    in reading that, I guess I am a liberal....
  • VictoryGin
    VictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    RainDog wrote:
    It means whatever someone on the right wants it to mean at any given time.
    Terrorist.
    Pinko.
    Nazi.
    French person.
    Immigrant.
    Homosexual.
    Canadian.
    News anchor.
    the "Blame America First" crowd.

    baby-killer

    feminazi

    welfare recipient

    educated
    if you wanna be a friend of mine
    cross the river to the eastside
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    inmytree wrote:
    , I guess I am a liberal....

    And there's absolutely no shame in being one!!! :D
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    redrock wrote:
    And there's absolutely no shame in being one!!! :D

    to hear hannity, rush, bill and bushy...liberal is a curse word....that's what I have trouble understanding...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    inmytree wrote:
    to hear hannity, rush, bill and bushy...liberal is a curse word....that's what I have trouble understanding...

    Because it's a threat to them... because it's against their policies.. because they don't understand.

    It's easier to vilify and insult someone threatening you than trying to understand and admitting that actually, their values/policies/thoughts might actually be valid!
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    RainDog wrote:
    The definition of liberal, however? There are a few, like:
    *favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
    *favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
    *favoring or permitting freedom of action, esp. with respect to matters of personal belief or expression.
    *of or pertaining to representational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.
    *open-minded or tolerant, esp. free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.
    *characterized by generosity.

    And that was just from one dictionary website.
    That's sure not how self-professed liberals act. It just goes to show the gulf between academia and reality. Does the dictionary understand the irony in the definition "favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secure by governmental protection of civil liberties"? Does the dictionary you referenced understand that in granting freedoms to one person it necessarily takes freedom from another?
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    redrock wrote:
    Because it's a threat to them... because it's against their policies.. because they don't understand.

    It's easier to vilify and insult someone threatening you than trying to understand and admitting that actually, their values/policies/thoughts might actually be valid!
    So it never occured to you that they are just against the policies of the current 'liberal' crowd.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    surferdude wrote:
    So it never occured to you that they are just against the policies of the current 'liberal' crowd.

    Read the first line of my post again......
  • miller8966
    miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    liberal= Unemployed
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    surferdude wrote:
    That's sure not how self-professed liberals act. It just goes to show the gulf between academia and reality. Does the dictionary understand the irony in the definition "favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, esp. as guaranteed by law and secure by governmental protection of civil liberties"? Does the dictionary you referenced understand that in granting freedoms to one person it necessarily takes freedom from another?

    did you read the link posted by redrock...and if so, what do you think about it...?

    also, can you describe how "self-professed liberals" act...? I'm not trying to bait or argue, I'm honestly interested....
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    miller8966 wrote:
    liberal= Unemployed

    really...only the unemployed are "liberals"...?
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    surferdude wrote:
    So it never occured to you that they are just against the policies of the current 'liberal' crowd.

    again, what does this mean...?
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    redrock wrote:
    Read the first line of my post again......
    But they do understand the 'liberal' policies and have identified some for the crap that they are. You say you are a liberal which supposed to encompass tolerance, open mindedness and generousity. Well I see none of that when you say "becasue they don't understand" when you have no idea if they understand. I guess you are not a liberal after all.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    inmytree wrote:
    I'm serious...I see and hear the term all the time...while I understand the term has a negative connotation, at the same time, it's pretty subjective...

    I'm really curious as to what it "means"....

    Someone who thinks they know how to spend my money better then I do.
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    inmytree wrote:
    did you read the link posted by redrock...and if so, what do you think about it...?

    also, can you describe how "self-professed liberals" act...? I'm not trying to bait or argue, I'm honestly interested....
    Let's take redrock. He.she seems to think of they are a liberal. But in action redrock seems to be missing some key components of being a liberal, that is showing tolerance, open-mindedness or generousity.

    I think the link is wonderful. But it doesn't describe liberal in any way. It seems to describe a caring, compassionate person. Being a caring and compassionate person is in no way tied to or limited to being a liberal. There is nothing tolerant, open minded or generous in believing so.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley

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