Father wins millions from war funeral picketers

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
This is interesting. The father of a soldier killed in Iraq is awarded $11 million in damages from the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church, you know, the "god hates fags" people. What are your thoughts on this? I am all for the first ammendment, but these people habitually abuse that right. I think the only way to keep them from doing this is to hit them in their pocketbook, and evidently $11 million is more than the church has in assets.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21566280/

BALTIMORE - A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

Award 'exceeds the net worth' of defendants
Even the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted.

Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • eh, fuck em.

    I guess it would depend on wether funerals could be considered public or private.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    The thing I don't get is that these people are against homosexuality but they are protesting someone who served in the US Army. The same US Army that prohibits its soldiers from being gay.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I truely believe in the First Amendment... without it, there is no criticism of our own government and our information about the goings on within our govrnment become the same as the Iranian and North Korean people get to hear about theirs.
    I will protect the Westboro Church's 'right' to spew their hatred... even if it is in direct opposition of my own beliefs... but, will hold them accountable for the consequences their words have on other people.
    ...
    Also... good luck collecting from these assholes.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    This is interesting. The father of a soldier killed in Iraq is awarded $11 million in damages from the Phelps family and Westboro Baptist Church, you know, the "god hates fags" people. What are your thoughts on this? I am all for the first ammendment, but these people habitually abuse that right. I think the only way to keep them from doing this is to hit them in their pocketbook, and evidently $11 million is more than the church has in assets.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21566280/

    BALTIMORE - A grieving father won a nearly $11 million verdict Wednesday against a fundamentalist Kansas church that pickets military funerals out of a belief that the war in Iraq is a punishment for the nation's tolerance of homosexuality.

    Albert Snyder of York, Pa., sued the Westboro Baptist Church for unspecified damages after members demonstrated at the March 2006 funeral of his son, Lance Cpl. Matthew Snyder, who was killed in Iraq.

    The jury first awarded $2.9 million in compensatory damages. It returned in the afternoon with its decision to award $6 million in punitive damages for invasion of privacy and $2 million for causing emotional distress.

    Snyder's attorney, Craig Trebilcock, had urged jurors to determine an amount "that says don't do this in Maryland again. Do not bring your circus of hate to Maryland again."

    Church members routinely picket funerals of military personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrying signs such as "Thank God for dead soldiers" and "God hates fags."

    A number of states have passed laws regarding funeral protests, and Congress has passed a law prohibiting such protests at federal cemeteries. But the Maryland lawsuit is believed to be the first filed by the family of a fallen serviceman.

    The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress.

    Award 'exceeds the net worth' of defendants
    Even the size of the award for compensating damages "far exceeds the net worth of the defendants," according to financial statements filed with the court, U.S. District Judge Richard Bennett noted.

    Snyder claimed the protests intruded upon what should have been a private ceremony and sullied his memory of the event.

    The church members testified they are following their religious beliefs by spreading the message that soldiers are dying because the nation is too tolerant of homosexuality.

    Their attorneys maintained in closing arguments Tuesday that the burial was a public event and that even abhorrent points of view are protected by the First Amendment, which guarantees freedom of speech and religion.

    Earlier, church members staged a demonstration outside the federal courthouse. Church founder Fred Phelps held a sign reading "God is your enemy," while Shirley Phelps-Roper stood on an American flag and carried a sign that read "God hates fag enablers." Members of the group sang "God Hates America" to the tune of "God Bless America."

    Snyder sobbed when he heard the verdict, while members of the church greeted the news with tightlipped smiles.

    While I'm totally against those people protesting the funerals (not against their right to protest, though), I think the award is excessive.

    Hopefully this will stop them, though.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    know1 wrote:
    While I'm totally against those people protesting the funerals (not against their right to protest, though), I think the award is excessive.

    Hopefully this will stop them, though.

    Amen

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  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    i have a feeling that in a few years the supreme court will be hearing this case. and with the current make up of the court, i doubt the awarded damages, and maybe even the decision will hold up.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    I had read that the trial was taking place. They'll try to worm their way out of this.....but hopefully it sinks their battleship.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • Kel VarnsenKel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    Cosmo wrote:
    I truely believe in the First Amendment... without it, there is no criticism of our own government and our information about the goings on within our govrnment become the same as the Iranian and North Korean people get to hear about theirs.
    I will protect the Westboro Church's 'right' to spew their hatred... even if it is in direct opposition of my own beliefs... but, will hold them accountable for the consequences their words have on other people.
    ...
    Also... good luck collecting from these assholes.


    I guess to me it all depends on exactly what kind of protest they had. I mean there is a fine line between protesting and harassment. If a guy stands in front of my house all day and yells obscenities at my windows I don't think that is covered under the first amendment. If they did have a peaceful, respectful protest on public property that is a different story.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I guess to me it all depends on exactly what kind of protest they had. I mean there is a fine line between protesting and harassment. If a guy stands in front of my house all day and yells obscenities at my windows I don't think that is covered under the first amendment. If they did have a peaceful, respectful protest on public property that is a different story.
    I think that was clarified:

    "The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress."

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yeah i am pretty sure that the things this group has done over the past few years is harrassment. i remember they were protected here. they picketed at a soldier's funeral here and were very obnoxious. a gang of bikers threatened them with violence. the police protected them from a sure ass beating, while they were yelling their "thank god for dead soldiers" and "god hates fags" crap. they were even taunting the bikers. all of this was covered by local news. i would have liked to have seen what would have happened if the cops weren't there.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    son of a bitch, i didnt see this when i posted mine. sorry!
  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    I believe they should be able to protest, not at funerals.

    I however would feel it quite appropiate for someone to protest one of their funerals with something along the lines of 'God hates you assholes'.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    I believe they should be able to protest, not at funerals.

    I however would feel it quite appropiate for someone to protest one of their funerals with something along the lines of 'God hates you assholes'.

    What these people have been doing are not peaceful protests. Not by a long shot. The court recognized the discrepancy and judged accordingly.
    "The church and three of its leaders — the Rev. Fred Phelps and his two daughters, Shirley Phelps-Roper and Rebecca Phelps-Davis, 46 — were found liable for invasion of privacy and intent to inflict emotional distress."

    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I guess to me it all depends on exactly what kind of protest they had. I mean there is a fine line between protesting and harassment. If a guy stands in front of my house all day and yells obscenities at my windows I don't think that is covered under the first amendment. If they did have a peaceful, respectful protest on public property that is a different story.
    ...
    That's my view, also. As soon as his opinions violate your privacy, it is no longer a matter of free sppech. Freedom of Speech is not protected when it violates your right to privacy. Same thing if they yelled into a bullhorn and damaged your hearing... they are responsible and must be held accountable for their actions.
    The same thing applies to the Westboro Church. It is not necessarily what they have to say... and more in the manner in which they express them.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
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