Guess the bottom

beachdweller

So I guessed we see 8k a couple months ago in the Dow, now that this is a reality, 7k is a given, most likely today. Will we see 6k?

I'm actually liking this bear of bears. It's a middle class adjustment in my eyes. I know Wall st, let alone our economy is extremely complicated, but for all the pain we will all feel, the middle class will be better off if we can regulate wall street better, and get the tax cuts Obama is suggesting. He also needs to follow up and cut the size of government, this more than anything else. If he wants to add any programs, the end result still needs to be a smaller government. If he can do this, and give us the healthcare, education, and energy programs we need, deserve, and have a right to (constitutionally is another argument), then that would be great.

if he expands government, that won't work.

Oh yeah, 6k range is my guess on the bottoming out of the Dow

know1

beachdweller wrote:

So I guessed we see 8k a couple months ago in the Dow, now that this is a reality, 7k is a given, most likely today. Will we see 6k?

I'm actually liking this bear of bears. It's a middle class adjustment in my eyes. I know Wall st, let alone our economy is extremely complicated, but for all the pain we will all feel, the middle class will be better off if we can regulate wall street better, and get the tax cuts Obama is suggesting. He also needs to follow up and cut the size of government, this more than anything else. If he wants to add any programs, the end result still needs to be a smaller government. If he can do this, and give us the healthcare, education, and energy programs we need, deserve, and have a right to (constitutionally is another argument), then that would be great.

if he expands government, that won't work.

Oh yeah, 6k range is my guess on the bottoming out of the Dow

Which tax cuts is Obama suggesting again?

mammasan

beachdweller wrote:

So I guessed we see 8k a couple months ago in the Dow, now that this is a reality, 7k is a given, most likely today. Will we see 6k?

I'm actually liking this bear of bears. It's a middle class adjustment in my eyes. I know Wall st, let alone our economy is extremely complicated, but for all the pain we will all feel, the middle class will be better off if we can regulate wall street better, and get the tax cuts Obama is suggesting. He also needs to follow up and cut the size of government, this more than anything else. If he wants to add any programs, the end result still needs to be a smaller government. If he can do this, and give us the healthcare, education, and energy programs we need, deserve, and have a right to (constitutionally is another argument), then that would be great.

if he expands government, that won't work.

Oh yeah, 6k range is my guess on the bottoming out of the Dow

If we close at under 8000 today we may still be OK. The overseas markets are closed for two days so that will give us a bit of a break. If the Dow remains under 8000 at the closing bell on Tuesday we will see some serious problems come Wednesday.

beachdweller

know1 wrote:

Which tax cuts is Obama suggesting again?

if you don't know, you shouldn't be allowed to vote, but you can and that's the problem with the country

saveuplife

beachdweller wrote:

So I guessed we see 8k a couple months ago in the Dow, now that this is a reality, 7k is a given, most likely today. Will we see 6k?

I'm actually liking this bear of bears. It's a middle class adjustment in my eyes. I know Wall st, let alone our economy is extremely complicated, but for all the pain we will all feel, the middle class will be better off if we can regulate wall street better, and get the tax cuts Obama is suggesting. He also needs to follow up and cut the size of government, this more than anything else. If he wants to add any programs, the end result still needs to be a smaller government. If he can do this, and give us the healthcare, education, and energy programs we need, deserve, and have a right to (constitutionally is another argument), then that would be great.

if he expands government, that won't work.

Oh yeah, 6k range is my guess on the bottoming out of the Dow

Dude, Obama is going to raise spending and raise taxes. The size of government will obviously increase. Also, the real relative size of gov't will increase even larger because he's going to raise corporate taxes and increase taxes on small business. Therefore, private sector will shrink and gov't will grow. It's all one pie.

That said, my guess is 7500.

beachdweller

mammasan wrote:

If we close at under 8000 today we may still be OK. The overseas markets are closed for two days so that will give us a bit of a break. If the Dow remains under 8000 at the closing bell on Tuesday we will see some serious problems come Wednesday.

I think this is all good, except for those that are going to rely on the money they had in the market between now and 5 years or so. I think the market gains have been unrealistic, alone with housing price gains the last decade.

mammasan

Anyone who thinks that Obama will reduce government spending or the size of government needs to wake up.

jimed14

saveuplife wrote:

Dude, Obama is going to raise spending and raise taxes. The size of government will obviously increase. Also, the real relative size of gov't will increase even larger because he's going to raise corporate taxes and increase taxes on small business. Therefore, private sector will shrink and gov't will grow. It's all one pie.

That said, my guess is 7500.

Sorry, the old "TAX AND SPEND" democrat line went way out the door with gool ol' Geroge Bush ... the new repulicans spend just as much, if not more, than democrats ever would.

McCain is no fiscal conservative. Just look at his home buyback plan ... a fucking JOKE.

mammasan

beachdweller wrote:

I think this is all good, except for those that are going to rely on the money they had in the market between now and 5 years or so. I think the market gains have been unrealistic, alone with housing price gains the last decade.

This is definitely a shitty situation for people who had retirement money in the market, especially if they where planning on retiring soon. This is just a negative bubble, as high as the market went is as far down as it is going to fall. Had we just allowed for the market to self correct itself after the dot com burst and 9/11 we wouldn't be sitting here today watching the Dow loose over 2000 points in one week.

Flagg

7200

saveuplife

jimed14 wrote:

Sorry, the old "TAX AND SPEND" democrat line went way out the door with gool ol' Geroge Bush ... the new repulicans spend just as much, if not more, than democrats ever would.

McCain is no fiscal conservative. Just look at his home buyback plan ... a fucking JOKE.

I'm not arguing that Bush wasn't a mindf*ck with spending. However, I am arguing that Obama's plan is to increase spending (overall) and increase taxes (overall). Whereas McCain's is to cut spending (overall) and lower taxes (overall). That's their plans.

You are dead right on the buyback plan. I completely agree.

blackredyellow

mammasan wrote:

Anyone who thinks that Obama will reduce government spending or the size of government needs to wake up.

The same should be said about McCain as well.

mammasan

blackredyellow wrote:

The same should be said about McCain as well.

I agree. Neither candidates fiscal policy is worth shit. On one hand you have a guy who wants to tax more and spend and on the the other hand you have a guy who wants to tax less and spend.

know1

beachdweller wrote:

if you don't know, you shouldn't be allowed to vote, but you can and that's the problem with the country

I'm serious. I can't find where he's cutting taxes. Maybe you could try and answer the question.

(but it seems several other posters in this thread have the same question. Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to vote either).

mammasan

know1 wrote:

I'm serious. I can't find where he's cutting taxes. Maybe you could try and answer the question.

(but it seems several other posters in this thread have the same question. Perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to vote either).

There was an independent study that showed how Obama's tax plan would cut taxes for people making under $100,000 a year. I agree with that part of the plan but he would also be raising taxes on small business at a time when they can't afford it, that being the part I don't like.

nothinghead

mammasan wrote:

There was an independent study that showed how Obama's tax plan would cut taxes for people making under $100,000 a year. I agree with that part of the plan but he would also be raising taxes on small business at a time when they can't afford it, that being the part I don't like.

The rebuttal I have heard is that it was only those making more than $250k per year, which I've read is only about four percent.

That number, however, seems incredibly low to me. Of course maybe we're counting "small businesses" as those who make $275k and under or something like that.

Is there an actual static designation for "small business"?



Of course, I don't think very highly of McCain's economic plan either. His plan seems to be tax less, spend more, and have the federal government directly involved in private loans at a substantial cost to a country terribly in debt.

Obama's plan clearly grows the government, raises taxes on Americans. Yes, people making more money than you are still Americans, and believe it or not, a large portion of them aren't criminals.

Let's also take a minute and consider we're having a discussion about which guy is in favor of lower taxes and smaller government when they both just voted for a bailout bill of more than $700B. Plus the $140B more attached to it. Oh, and AIG has more than $100B out from the Federal Reserve...so on, so forth.

But yes, back to discussing which candidate is in favor of a smaller government, lower taxes, and responsible spending, yes?

Also, after a trillion dollars worth of war in Iraq, they both seem all hot and bothered to beef up expenditures in Afghanistan and start turning their sights to Iran.

Solat13

Flagg wrote:

7200

Doh'

that was my guess and you beat me too it.

That was where the market was at 6 years ago.

mammasan

Solat13 wrote:

Doh'

that was my guess and you beat me too it.

That was where the market was at 6 years ago.

Except back then the Dow lost 2000 in the span of a year. It lost 2000, this time, in the span of a week.

mammasan

Well it seems that the market is making a push. I can't help but wonder if such violent swings are healthy for the market?

Solat13

mammasan wrote:

Well it seems that the market is making a push. I can't help but wonder if such violent swings are healthy for the market?

They're probably not. But I bet my boss $50 that the market would end up positive at close today and after being down almost all of the day hundreds of points, it's nice to see it back on the plus side so close to closing.

mammasan

Solat13 wrote:

They're probably not. But I bet my boss $50 that the market would end up positive at close today and after being down almost all of the day hundreds of points, it's nice to see it back on the plus side so close to closing.

WOW it's up 239 points. This is just crazy about an hour ago it was down almost 500 points. This type of roller coster activity can't be healthy.