(Good Irony) Proof that global warming not a problem!

Uncle Leo

I find it amusing(ly agravating) when someone says that global warming does not exist because some place like North Dakota had a blizzard followed by below zero temps in January.

But this story is just amusing enough that I felt I must post it:
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=246777

The first sentence covers what is amusing: "A North Pole expedition meant to bring attention to global warming was called off after one of the explorers got frostbite."

Skitch Patterson

Uncle Leo wrote:

I find it amusing(ly agravating) when someone says that global warming does not exist because some place like North Dakota had a blizzard followed by below zero temps in January.

I agree with this, but it goes both ways. As long as people point to things like an active hurricane season or a mild december as evidence OF global warming, then its only fair to point to below average temps and things like that as evidence against it.

Individual (or even seasonal) weather events are as much proof for or against global warming as the devil rays sweeping a 2 game series against the yankees.

Uncle Leo

Skitch Patterson wrote:

I agree with this, but it goes both ways. As long as people point to things like an active hurricane season or a mild december as evidence OF global warming, then its only fair to point to below average temps and things like that as evidence against it.

Individual (or even seasonal) weather events are as much proof for or against global warming as the devil rays sweeping a 2 game series against the yankees.

I know. I put the first part in so as not to make people believe that I was actually claiming this as an argument against the existance of global warming...just a funny irony.

Skitch Patterson

Uncle Leo wrote:

I know. I put the first part in so as not to make people believe that I was actually claiming this as an argument against the existance of global warming...just a funny irony.

I figured, but if the threads still exist, go back and see how many people were convinced Katrina (and the other hurricanes) in 2005 were proof positive that global warming was going to kill us.... and they'll be among the first to say how stupid this story is.

floyd1975

Skitch Patterson wrote:

I figured, but if the threads still exist, go back and see how many people were convinced Katrina (and the other hurricanes) in 2005 were proof positive that global warming was going to kill us.... and they'll be among the first to say how stupid this story is.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=237004&highlight=katrina

onelongsong

Skitch Patterson wrote:

I agree with this, but it goes both ways. As long as people point to things like an active hurricane season or a mild december as evidence OF global warming, then its only fair to point to below average temps and things like that as evidence against it.

Individual (or even seasonal) weather events are as much proof for or against global warming as the devil rays sweeping a 2 game series against the yankees.

the record snow and cold temperatures prove global warming exists. the winds are blowing colder air across the ice south. the more the ice melts the colder the air. the colder the air the farther the jet stream can push it south.

Skitch Patterson

onelongsong wrote:

the record snow and cold temperatures prove global warming exists. the winds are blowing colder air across the ice south. the more the ice melts the colder the air. the colder the air the farther the jet stream can push it south.

as a whole picture of the enviroment, of course. However, one season of a warm december, or a heavy hurricane season is not proof- they are isolated weather incidents.... and taken individually, or seasonally proves nothing.

gue_barium

Skitch Patterson wrote:

as a whole picture of the enviroment, of course. However, one season of a warm december, or a heavy hurricane season is not proof- they are isolated weather incidents.... and taken individually, or seasonally proves nothing.

True. Funny thing is that our nearest planets and the moon aren't experiencing the climatic changes that we're observing here of the Earth. Not that they would be exactly the same, however, being part of the same solar system in which all masses absorb heat/energy from the same source (the sun), the evidence shows that the warming on Earth is unique to itself.

Abookamongstthemany

Skitch Patterson wrote:

as a whole picture of the enviroment, of course. However, one season of a warm december, or a heavy hurricane season is not proof- they are isolated weather incidents.... and taken individually, or seasonally proves nothing.

But aren't hurricanes caused, at least in part, by warmer ocean surface tempertures? So if the tempertures of the oceans around the US become warmer over the years wouldn't it create more hurricanes? I'm also aware that this won't happen every year because cooling and warming trends like La Nina or whatever play a role, as well and offset the patterns. But this doesn't take away the possibility for stronger and more frequent hurricanes in seasons where there is no cooling trend?

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

True. Funny thing is that our nearest planets and the moon aren't experiencing the climatic changes that we're observing here of the Earth. Not that they would be exactly the same, however, being part of the same solar system in which all masses absorb heat/energy from the same source (the sun), the evidence shows that the warming on Earth is unique to itself.

you nailed it right there. without other changes in the universe; man is the only common denominator.

onelongsong

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

But aren't hurricanes caused, at least in part, by warmer ocean surface tempertures? So if the tempertures of the oceans around the US become warmer over the years wouldn't it create more hurricanes? I'm also aware that this won't happen every year because cooling and warming trends like La Nina or whatever play a role, as well and offset the patterns. But this doesn't take away the possibility for stronger and more frequent hurricanes in seasons where there is no cooling trend?

exactly. the evidence lies in the dramatic changes. but we must also consider that when one area gets record warm; another gets record cold. right now we have a lot of melting ice lowering the temperature but we also have less ice to reflect solar radiation (heat) back into space. since oceans absorb heat we have a mixture of warm and cold that's going to mess with weather patterns.

lucylespian

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

But aren't hurricanes caused, at least in part, by warmer ocean surface tempertures? So if the tempertures of the oceans around the US become warmer over the years wouldn't it create more hurricanes? I'm also aware that this won't happen every year because cooling and warming trends like La Nina or whatever play a role, as well and offset the patterns. But this doesn't take away the possibility for stronger and more frequent hurricanes in seasons where there is no cooling trend?

But the USA is not the only country on this golbe. While you have had more hurricanes, Australia is dying from drought due to a lack of cyclones and tropical lows worth talking about. So this whole "gloabl warming means more hurricanes' thing is neither global, nor helping us much at the present.

Abookamongstthemany

lucylespian wrote:

But the USA is not the only country on this golbe. While you have had more hurricanes, Australia is dying from drought due to a lack of cyclones and tropical lows worth talking about. So this whole "gloabl warming means more hurricanes' thing is neither global, nor helping us much at the present.

Yes, I realize we aren't the only country. I only mentioned our patterns because I know a lot more about them. Feel free to bring more global knowledge of these patterns to the discussion. Maybe in your region, which is closer to the caps, is suffering because of the melting and cooling of oceans temps onelongsong spoke of. I'm just looking for better understanding, I don't claim to know anything for sure about any of it.

onelongsong

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Yes, I realize we aren't the only country. I only mentioned our patterns because I know a lot more about them. Feel free to bring more global knowledge of these patterns to the discussion. Maybe in your region, which is closer to the caps, is suffering because of the melting and cooling of oceans temps onelongsong spoke of. I'm just looking for better understanding, I don't claim to know anything for sure about any of it.

i recall eva7 mentioning the terrible and unusual storms italy had.

Abookamongstthemany

onelongsong wrote:

i recall eva7 mentioning the terrible and unusual storms italy had.

I must have missed that thread. I'll do a search.

Skitch Patterson

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

But aren't hurricanes caused, at least in part, by warmer ocean surface tempertures? So if the tempertures of the oceans around the US become warmer over the years wouldn't it create more hurricanes? I'm also aware that this won't happen every year because cooling and warming trends like La Nina or whatever play a role, as well and offset the patterns. But this doesn't take away the possibility for stronger and more frequent hurricanes in seasons where there is no cooling trend?

Possibly, but pointing to 2005's active hurricane season as proof of global warming is as silly as pointing to 2006's lack of hurricanes as proof against it.

Abookamongstthemany

Skitch Patterson wrote:

Possibly, but pointing to 2005's active hurricane season as proof of global warming is as silly as pointing to 2006's lack of hurricanes as proof against it.

Using small time periods for proof isn't going to prove anything.

But as I pointed out, the lack of hurricanes can be explained by other weather phenomenons that still work within the global warming theory.

Skitch Patterson

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

Using small time periods for proof isn't going to prove anything.

But as I pointed out, the lack of hurricanes can be explained by other weather phenomenons that still work within the global warming theory.

Just as an abundance of hurricanes can be explained by phenomenons that still work outside of the global warming theory.

Skitch Patterson

Skitch Patterson wrote:

Just as an abundance of hurricanes can be explained by phenomenons that still work outside of the global warming theory.

For the record, i am in no way disputing global warming exists, just pointing out how silly i think it is to use isolated weather events (like an active hurricane season) to support it, while at the same time laughing at the people who point to a blizzard in february to support claims that it doesnt exist.

i feel i have to add this disclaimer on every page of the thread, as someone will inevitably claim that i am disputing the existance of global warming.

gue_barium

Skitch Patterson wrote:

For the record, i am in no way disputing global warming exists, just pointing out how silly i think it is to use isolated weather events (like an active hurricane season) to support it, while at the same time laughing at the people who point to a blizzard in february to support claims that it doesnt exist.

i feel i have to add this disclaimer on every page of the thread, as someone will inevitably claim that i am disputing the existance of global warming.

I dunno skitch. are you sure you're not just looking for the most ignorant posts to reply to?

LikeAnOcean

Global warming is alot more complicated than alot of us want to understand. It's weird how it works. Global warming doesn't mean its going to be 100 degrees everywhere. I've heard global warming will actually cause Europe to go into an ice ago due to a change in the gulf currents. Like said earlier, melting ice caps will create cooler water that brings cooler temperatures to normally warmer places. Generally speaking, there's always been lots of hurricanes, and I think those will be the least of our problem, so I think while they may be dramatic examples when they happen, the real danger is going to be floods and drought in places that don't normally experience this.