I wouldn't necessarily disagree with a war in that circumstance. It would depend mostly on where and why we were going to war. I'm not totally turned away by the notion that it's God's will, as long as the real issues are discussed, which I believe they would, even if such a comment were made. Maybe they wouldn't, who knows, but that'd definitely be a first. We've had plenty of Christian Presidents and Vice Presidents in the past and nothing like that has ever happened, where someone claimed God told them to invade a country, without any other reason.
..
You're still skirting the point...
For WHATEVER reason... against whomever is out there... our leader... let's say Muslim... stated that our going to War was because of Allah's will... you wouldn't have a problem with it?
...
Oh... and by the way... G.W. Bush consulted with his 'Higher Father' on going to War with iraq.
Bush said he did not remember asking the question of his father, former president George H.W. Bush, who fought Iraq in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. But, he added that the two had discussed developments in Iraq.
"You know he is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to," Bush said.
The president described praying as he walked outside the Oval Office after giving the order to begin combat operations against Iraq, and the powerful role his religious beliefs played throughout that time.
"Going into this period, I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. . . . I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case I pray that I be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then, of course, I pray for personal strength and for forgiveness."
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
The founding fathers were most certainly not heavy-duty Christians. Ben Franklin and Jefferson were not very religious at all. They only occasionally went to church mostly for appearances sake. Look it up.
We all walk the Long Road...
Charlotte & Raleigh Lollapalooza 1992, Charlotte Memorial Stadium 1996, Tibet Freedom Concert 1998, Raleigh & Greenville 1998, Greensboro 2000, Raleigh & Camden 2003, Asheville 2004, Camden 2006, DC 2008, Atlanta 2012 Charlottesville 2013, Charlotte 2013 Greenville, (XRaleighX) and Hampton 2016, London Hyde Park, Quebec City and Ottawa 2022, St Paul X2 2023, Raleigh 2025 X2, Florida (hopefully)...
The founding fathers were most certainly not heavy-duty Christians. Ben Franklin and Jefferson were not very religious at all. They only occasionally went to church mostly for appearances sake. Look it up.
...
True. They had enough of that British Rule where the Church shared power with the State. There's a reason why the seperation of Church and state is in the FIRST Amendment. Because it wasn't so under British Rule in the 1700s. That, along with a restricted press and free speech and public assembly.
And don't you love the whole thing about 'The Creator' in the Declaration of Independence 'must' mean they were Christian. Muslims and Jews share the same One God as the Christians.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I think you missed Outlaw's point...
You would be outraged if we had a Muslim President that took us to War because he felt it was in Allah's Name...
But, you have no problem going to War under a Christian President who is doing God's will, in Jesus' name.
Is that true?
...
At least... that what I got from his text... but, yeah... I could be wrong.
The American forefathers were most certainly not "fundamentalist". At best, with the possible exception of Patrick Henry, they were deists in fine Enlightenment tradition. Fundamentalism, as it currently exists, did not exist until the late 1800's/early 1900's. To claim that the forefathers shared the faith of Sarah Palin, Dobson, Robertson, et al is absolutely incorrect. They did know that Christianity/religion played a huge role in society, but one major thrust of the American democracy was an attempt to avoid the religious conflicts so prevalent in European history. The founding fathers were not Christians in the Pentecostal/holiness tradition of which Sarah Palin is a part. If you're gonna make that claim (that Palin and the founding fathers represent the same theological tradition), you might want to actually know something about the history of American theological development...
Nice post. We can't all be experts in everything so it helps when people who know their shit step up to the plate and set things straight.
Does anyone know how often she really talks about God in relation to the issues, etc.? Does she do it at every speech, or did she just do it once or twice (when addressing a church) and it's repeated so many times on message boards and news stories that we think it's continual?
For the record, I do not believe that any war in this day and time is a mission from God. Of course, I also do not believe that would have been the sole reason for going to war anyway. I mean, all of the congress people voted for it and not all of them could have believed that.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Do you have proof beyond her church has people who speak in tongues?? Here's what her pastor had to say ... Palin's former pastor, Tim McGraw, says that like many Pentecostal churches, some members speak in tongues, although he says he's never seen Palin do so.
so i guess YOU really know better than someone who was actually in her church?
Maybe you just want to perpetuate lies and fear that have been spoken about her...theres many more things to be concerned about with Palin than a speaking in tongues accusation, that has no substance.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
As we’ve noted, Palin did not attempt to ban any library books. We don’t know if Emmons’ resistance to Palin’s questions about possible censorship had anything to do with Emmons’ firing. And we have no idea if the protests had any impact on Palin at all. There simply isn’t any evidence that we can find either way. Palin did re-hire Emmons the following day, saying that she now felt she had the librarian’s backing. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.
So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken “from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board”? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as “Books banned at one time or another in the United States.”
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
Our forefathers were 'fundamentalists' who knew religion, Christianity in particular, played a huge role in our society. It is freedom of religion not freedom from religion.
You need to UNDERSTAND that people may have given God many names, but there is only ONE God. There are, however, many FAITHS by which people interpret the word of God and therein lies the problem when people mix religion and politics. Our forefathers understood this because they came from countries where religious persecution was the norm. They saw the effects of the Salem Witch hunts. Our forefathers understood the power of the Church on leaders and how easy people abused their power in the name of God, so goes separation of church and State.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
It does not matter where a person's beliefs come from. Someone non religious could just as easily support the Iraq war.
Plus, nowhere in the Constitution does it say a politician cant have any religious beliefs. All it says is Freedom of Religion, which means that a religion cannot be imposed on anyone by law, something that Palin has not demonstrated any interest in doing.
The post, if you would have read it properly was not about anyone not having the right to religious beliefs. The post was about if a politician injects their religious beliefs to use the military to kill and destroy are they any different from any other religious fundamentalist? The Crusades was conducted under a flag, the Spanish Inquisition was conducted under a flag and both were conducted in the name of God.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
...
God also talks to that homeless guy who lives on Fairfax Blvd.
You mean that black dude that hangs outside of Canters...
2000-10-28 San Bernardino
2003-06-02 Irvine
2003-10-26 Mountain View-Bridge School
2006-07-09 Los Angeles
2006-07-10 Los Angeles
2006-10-22 Mountain View- Bridge School
2008-07-19 UCLA-Who Rock Honors
2009-10-1 Los Angeles-2
2009-10-9 San Diego
Comments
You're still skirting the point...
For WHATEVER reason... against whomever is out there... our leader... let's say Muslim... stated that our going to War was because of Allah's will... you wouldn't have a problem with it?
...
Oh... and by the way... G.W. Bush consulted with his 'Higher Father' on going to War with iraq.
Bush said he did not remember asking the question of his father, former president George H.W. Bush, who fought Iraq in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. But, he added that the two had discussed developments in Iraq.
"You know he is the wrong father to appeal to in terms of strength. There is a higher father that I appeal to," Bush said.
The president described praying as he walked outside the Oval Office after giving the order to begin combat operations against Iraq, and the powerful role his religious beliefs played throughout that time.
"Going into this period, I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will. . . . I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case I pray that I be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then, of course, I pray for personal strength and for forgiveness."
Hail, Hail!!!
Charlotte & Raleigh Lollapalooza 1992, Charlotte Memorial Stadium 1996, Tibet Freedom Concert 1998, Raleigh & Greenville 1998, Greensboro 2000, Raleigh & Camden 2003, Asheville 2004, Camden 2006, DC 2008, Atlanta 2012 Charlottesville 2013, Charlotte 2013
Greenville, (XRaleighX) and Hampton 2016, London Hyde Park, Quebec City and Ottawa 2022, St Paul X2 2023, Raleigh 2025 X2, Florida (hopefully)...
True. They had enough of that British Rule where the Church shared power with the State. There's a reason why the seperation of Church and state is in the FIRST Amendment. Because it wasn't so under British Rule in the 1700s. That, along with a restricted press and free speech and public assembly.
And don't you love the whole thing about 'The Creator' in the Declaration of Independence 'must' mean they were Christian. Muslims and Jews share the same One God as the Christians.
Hail, Hail!!!
Nice post. We can't all be experts in everything so it helps when people who know their shit step up to the plate and set things straight.
Does anyone know how often she really talks about God in relation to the issues, etc.? Does she do it at every speech, or did she just do it once or twice (when addressing a church) and it's repeated so many times on message boards and news stories that we think it's continual?
For the record, I do not believe that any war in this day and time is a mission from God. Of course, I also do not believe that would have been the sole reason for going to war anyway. I mean, all of the congress people voted for it and not all of them could have believed that.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
so i guess YOU really know better than someone who was actually in her church?
Maybe you just want to perpetuate lies and fear that have been spoken about her...theres many more things to be concerned about with Palin than a speaking in tongues accusation, that has no substance.
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sliming_palin.html
As we’ve noted, Palin did not attempt to ban any library books. We don’t know if Emmons’ resistance to Palin’s questions about possible censorship had anything to do with Emmons’ firing. And we have no idea if the protests had any impact on Palin at all. There simply isn’t any evidence that we can find either way. Palin did re-hire Emmons the following day, saying that she now felt she had the librarian’s backing. Emmons continued to serve as librarian until August 1999, when the Chicago Tribune reports that she resigned.
So what about that list of books targeted for banning, which according to one widely e-mailed version was taken “from the official minutes of the Wasilla Library Board”? If it was, the library board should take up fortune telling. The list includes the first four Harry Potter books, none of which had been published at the time of the Palin-Emmons conversations. The first wasn't published until 1998. In fact, the list is a simple cut-and-paste job, snatched (complete with typos and the occasional incorrect title) from the Florida Institute of Technology library Web page, which presents the list as “Books banned at one time or another in the United States.”
You need to UNDERSTAND that people may have given God many names, but there is only ONE God. There are, however, many FAITHS by which people interpret the word of God and therein lies the problem when people mix religion and politics. Our forefathers understood this because they came from countries where religious persecution was the norm. They saw the effects of the Salem Witch hunts. Our forefathers understood the power of the Church on leaders and how easy people abused their power in the name of God, so goes separation of church and State.
The post, if you would have read it properly was not about anyone not having the right to religious beliefs. The post was about if a politician injects their religious beliefs to use the military to kill and destroy are they any different from any other religious fundamentalist? The Crusades was conducted under a flag, the Spanish Inquisition was conducted under a flag and both were conducted in the name of God.
You mean that black dude that hangs outside of Canters...
2003-06-02 Irvine
2003-10-26 Mountain View-Bridge School
2006-07-09 Los Angeles
2006-07-10 Los Angeles
2006-10-22 Mountain View- Bridge School
2008-07-19 UCLA-Who Rock Honors
2009-10-1 Los Angeles-2
2009-10-9 San Diego
and the crickets go *chirp*
It's amazing this kind of very basic information just doesn't get out there.
don't feel bad charger, a vice presidential nominee was wrong on this one too.(hint: think estrogen)
my point? you can get pretty far even with an ignorance of history.