Right - that's why I put the "I don't know" phrase into my original statement that confused you.
Unless it's me losing the job, or perhaps one of my friends or relatives, it shouldn't matter whether it's an American or someone of another nationality who gets it.
But some people - like the original post I quoted - seem to think that it's better for an "American" to have a job as opposed to someone from a different background.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm not saying that Unions did not accomplish a lot and should be respected for those accomplishments in the past, but...
..times have changed and with the improvements in technology, transportation, and communication as well as the availablity of lawyers itching for litigation, they are just not needed and are doing themselves a disservice.
technology, transportation, and communication have nothing to do with employers constant attempts to exploit their workers. and lawyers are certainly not the answer to that problem. no matter how much "times change" one thing will not change, and that is the exploitation of labor by the powerful. you can rely on lawyers all you want, i would rather rely on my fellow co-workers and their collective voice to continue the struggle for fair labor practices and adequate pay and benefits.
Right - that's why I put the "I don't know" phrase into my original statement that confused you.
Unless it's me losing the job, or perhaps one of my friends or relatives, it shouldn't matter whether it's an American or someone of another nationality who gets it.
But some people - like the original post I quoted - seem to think that it's better for an "American" to have a job as opposed to someone from a different background.
It's important that we protect American workers. I dont care what someone's background is, i do care if companies send jobs to other nations simply to satisfy the bottom line, erroding our middle class in the process.
I don't know what you are implying by bringing someone's background into the conversation but this has nothing to do with someone's background.
But some people - like the original post I quoted - seem to think that it's better for an "American" to have a job as opposed to someone from a different background.
you can write me down on that one. you know why, becasue i live in america. if i lived in poland i wouldnt want americans to come and take my job, or any other Poles job. if i lived in mexico, i wouldnt want an american to come take my job, or any other mexicans job. that is not racists or hateful, that is local/national economics and local/national interests. nothing more nothing less. you think canadians want americans crossing their border taking their jobs at half the pay and without benefits? i doubt it.
it is not evil that americans want to keep their jobs. they are americans, so they want american jobs. pretty simple if you ask me
So in other words your imagination should dictate policy?
not my imagination...
Large Truck Crash Facts 2000. Analysis Division of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Association (FMCSA) (March 2002), 248 KB PDF, 61 pages. Over the past 20 years (1980 to 2000), there has been a 39 percent increase in registered large trucks and a 90 percent increase in miles traveled by large trucks. Over the same time period, the number of large trucks involved in fatal crashes each year has declined by 8 percent, and the vehicle involvement rate for large trucks in fatal crashes has declined by 52 percent. http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/trucking_industry/hazards.html
So in other words your wants should dictate the behaviors of others?
if "my wants" are to increase the safety for people that share the roads with trucks, then I guess so.
I also want people to be held responsible for rape and murder... I guess that since it's only my "want", then we shouldn't have laws to dictate what other people do?
a lot of traffic signals are put in place because of the desires of the people that live or drive in the area... wouldn't you consider that cause by the market?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
you can write me down on that one. you know why, becasue i live in america. if i lived in poland i wouldnt want americans to come and take my job, or any other Poles job. if i lived in mexico, i wouldnt want an american to come take my job, or any other mexicans job.
that is not racists or hateful, that is local/national economics and local/national interests.
Awesome. Slavery was just "local/national economics and local/national interests" too.
See, here's the thing. You don't just want regulation. You want to be a regulator. You want things done how you want them to be done. The irony of this is you'll invoke words like "common good" and "the people" and "our workers", while elements of all those damn your regulations.
dude, your so full of shit i can smell you from here
how the hell is the "rules of the market" going to regulate stop lights and traffic laws?
and no, i dont want to be a regulator? but i dont mind having some input on the issue. thats why we have a Represenative Government. so i have as much input as you.
ps... i do not blame the immigrant, legal or illegal. i blame the employer that hires them for half what he would have to pay an american while they also can cut out health care and other various benefits secured by the american labor movement.
Actually I agree with Know1. Once you believe that all people are equal it doesn't matter who has the job. It just seems that a lot of people don't really believe in equality and want to make sure that their government does not legislate laws that back equality. A life in America is not more valuable than a life in Africa.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Actually I agree with Know1. Once you believe that all people are equal it doesn't matter who has the job. It just seems that a lot of people don't really believe in equality and want to make sure that their government does not legislate laws that back equality. A life in America is not more valuable than a life in Africa.
i agree all people are equal. so the american should have a job in america, and the african should have a job in africa. its called fucking geography, pretty simple folks.
wanting to keep jobs in america for america is not hateful, racists, or discriminatory.
wanting to keep jobs in america for america is not hateful, racists, or discriminatory.
In case you haven't noticed you sure don't want the Mexican to have the trucking job. You only want the American to have the job, as if the American is somehow entitled to it by place of birth. When you believe in equality and you see when there is one job and two people vying for it you will not care what race, sex or nationality gets it. I'm just hoping the best qualified person gets it and that the job pays a decent wage.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
It's entirely realistic based on the only standard you've offered: safety.
not my imagination...
Large Truck Crash Facts 2000. Analysis Division of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Association (FMCSA) (March 2002), 248 KB PDF, 61 pages. Over the past 20 years (1980 to 2000), there has been a 39 percent increase in registered large trucks and a 90 percent increase in miles traveled by large trucks. Over the same time period, the number of large trucks involved in fatal crashes each year has declined by 8 percent, and the vehicle involvement rate for large trucks in fatal crashes has declined by 52 percent. http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/trucking_industry/hazards.html
Safety regulations work
So let me get this straight. You think an increase in trucks, but a decrease in accidents, all during periods where regulations existed, prove that "regulations work"???
no
You probably shouldn't say "more power to them" when you're demanding, at the point of a gun, that they should do things your way.
if "my wants" are to increase the safety for people that share the roads with trucks, then I guess so.
Ok. And if your wants come at the cost of others, they should be forced to pay that cost, regardless of their wants, needs, and standards?
I also want people to be held responsible for rape and murder... I guess that since it's only my "want", then we shouldn't have laws to dictate what other people do?
Rape and murder laws are wants relative to your own body and life. The same cannot be said about truck drivers and trucking regulations. Comparing trucking regulations to rape/murder laws is inappropriate and silly. The average trucker who ignores every regulation you have likely still will not kill or hurt anyone, whereas everyone who resorts to rape or murder does kill or hurt someone.
Furthermore, a rapist or murderer can have no qualms with your rules. If he is willing to break them, he has announced that he has no interest in life or freedom. One can treat him however one wishes, based on his own moral code. A truck driver who simply wants to drive for 10 hours a day is not a rapist or a murderer, nor is he by default any danger whatsoever to you.
I'm guessing he can't just drive it to you because of our border laws...
Hehe...why not? I mean, what happens if he gets in his truck and tries?
a lot of traffic signals are put in place because of the desires of the people that live or drive in the area... wouldn't you consider that cause by the market?
Force is anti-market. If you force me to pay for a traffic sign, force me to hang it up over a street, and force me to abide by it's rules, you're talking about guns, not dollars.
In case you haven't noticed you sure don't want the Mexican to have the trucking job. You only want the American to have the job, as if the American is somehow entitled to it by place of birth. When you believe in equality and you see when there is one job and two people vying for it you will not care what race, sex or nationality gets it. I'm just hoping the best qualified person gets it and that the job pays a decent wage.
just as the mexican doesnt want the american to take his job. its called geography, and ther are only so many jobs to go around. maybe i should come to canada and take your job for half the pay, then we will see how you feel.
what the hell does slavery have to do with this? nothing, you just like to hear yourself type i think?
You made a distinctly generalized statement by suggesting "Americans" have a greater right to their jobs than foreigners. And then you justify it by saying it's "local/national economics and local/national interests," as if either of those things could erase xenophobic attitudes.
my grandfather keeping his job at GM has nothing to do with slavery.
It does once he uses force against his employer to keep it.
technology, transportation, and communication have nothing to do with employers constant attempts to exploit their workers. and lawyers are certainly not the answer to that problem. no matter how much "times change" one thing will not change, and that is the exploitation of labor by the powerful. you can rely on lawyers all you want, i would rather rely on my fellow co-workers and their collective voice to continue the struggle for fair labor practices and adequate pay and benefits.
We obviously have different opinions on this. I not only think that unions are useless in America today, but that they are truly detrimental to the workers they are supposedly protecting. The biggest accomplishment they have these days is hastening the outsourcing of jobs and businesses.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Actually I agree with Know1. Once you believe that all people are equal it doesn't matter who has the job. It just seems that a lot of people don't really believe in equality and want to make sure that their government does not legislate laws that back equality. A life in America is not more valuable than a life in Africa.
That's what I'm saying...just not as clearly as you did.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Rape and murder laws are wants relative to your own body and life. The same cannot be said about truck drivers and trucking regulations. Comparing trucking regulations to rape/murder laws is inappropriate and silly.
Jesus Christ, dude, like comparing everything to slavery and violence isn't?
Actually I agree with Know1. Once you believe that all people are equal it doesn't matter who has the job. It just seems that a lot of people don't really believe in equality and want to make sure that their government does not legislate laws that back equality. A life in America is not more valuable than a life in Africa.
First of all no one if arguing that a life in America is worth more than a life in Africa. We are talking about jobs here.
Secondly what do you suggest? Should we willing send as many jobs to other Nations as possible?
i agree all people are equal. so the american should have a job in america, and the african should have a job in africa. its called fucking geography, pretty simple folks.
wanting to keep jobs in america for america is not hateful, racists, or discriminatory.
Do you feel the same way if you live near the border of a state, and a worker comes from the next state over to work in your local factory?
Why does it have to be about countries? It should be about people.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
We obviously have different opinions on this. I not only think that unions are useless in America today, but that they are truly detrimental to the workers they are supposedly protecting. The biggest accomplishment they have these days is hastening the outsourcing of jobs and businesses.
All those unionized high tech jobs going to India. Damn unionized nerds.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
just as the mexican doesnt want the american to take his job. its called geography, and ther are only so many jobs to go around. maybe i should come to canada and take your job for half the pay, then we will see how you feel.
and i believe in equality.
If you can provide the same level of service to the company where I work as I do for half the pay they'd be stupid not to hire you. The people I work with are far from stupid so I'm guessing they haven't found anyone who can.
You keep harping on geography. All you are doing is basing your discrimination on nationality. Let it go.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
If you can provide the same level of service to the company where I work as I do for half the pay they'd be stupid not to hire you. The people I work with are far from stupid so I'm guessing they haven't found anyone who can.
You keep harping on geography. All you are doing is basing your discrimination on nationality. Let it go.
Yep - we're hiring an IT manager at our company. If we have 2 candidates who appear equal on paper but one wants $5K less in salary, who do you think we're going to offer it to?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
so if everyone is equal (they are) and if you think it is ok for americans to lose jobs to foreigners, then i guess you would/do suppirt the wholesale outsourcing of jobs to other counties?
i guess you dont mind good paying jobs being outsourced to india and china, while in america they are replaced with service industry jobs such as wal-mart? give me a fucking break. nice country and infrastructure your willing to leave for future generations.
and if you think the employers give a shit about the "equality of man" than you are sadly mistaken. they will take your job and ship it to the country with the lowest bidder without losing sleep. so it is up to us, AMERICANS, to protect our fucking jobs and future. period.
Comments
Right - that's why I put the "I don't know" phrase into my original statement that confused you.
Unless it's me losing the job, or perhaps one of my friends or relatives, it shouldn't matter whether it's an American or someone of another nationality who gets it.
But some people - like the original post I quoted - seem to think that it's better for an "American" to have a job as opposed to someone from a different background.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
technology, transportation, and communication have nothing to do with employers constant attempts to exploit their workers. and lawyers are certainly not the answer to that problem. no matter how much "times change" one thing will not change, and that is the exploitation of labor by the powerful. you can rely on lawyers all you want, i would rather rely on my fellow co-workers and their collective voice to continue the struggle for fair labor practices and adequate pay and benefits.
It's important that we protect American workers. I dont care what someone's background is, i do care if companies send jobs to other nations simply to satisfy the bottom line, erroding our middle class in the process.
I don't know what you are implying by bringing someone's background into the conversation but this has nothing to do with someone's background.
you can write me down on that one. you know why, becasue i live in america. if i lived in poland i wouldnt want americans to come and take my job, or any other Poles job. if i lived in mexico, i wouldnt want an american to come take my job, or any other mexicans job. that is not racists or hateful, that is local/national economics and local/national interests. nothing more nothing less. you think canadians want americans crossing their border taking their jobs at half the pay and without benefits? i doubt it.
it is not evil that americans want to keep their jobs. they are americans, so they want american jobs. pretty simple if you ask me
At least use realistic arguments
not my imagination...
Large Truck Crash Facts 2000. Analysis Division of Federal Motor Carrier Safety Association (FMCSA) (March 2002), 248 KB PDF, 61 pages. Over the past 20 years (1980 to 2000), there has been a 39 percent increase in registered large trucks and a 90 percent increase in miles traveled by large trucks. Over the same time period, the number of large trucks involved in fatal crashes each year has declined by 8 percent, and the vehicle involvement rate for large trucks in fatal crashes has declined by 52 percent.
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/trucking_industry/hazards.html
Safety regulations work
no
if "my wants" are to increase the safety for people that share the roads with trucks, then I guess so.
I also want people to be held responsible for rape and murder... I guess that since it's only my "want", then we shouldn't have laws to dictate what other people do?
I'm guessing he can't just drive it to you because of our border laws...
a lot of traffic signals are put in place because of the desires of the people that live or drive in the area... wouldn't you consider that cause by the market?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Awesome. Slavery was just "local/national economics and local/national interests" too.
dude, your so full of shit i can smell you from here
how the hell is the "rules of the market" going to regulate stop lights and traffic laws?
and no, i dont want to be a regulator? but i dont mind having some input on the issue. thats why we have a Represenative Government. so i have as much input as you.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
again, your full of shit.
what the hell does slavery have to do with this? nothing, you just like to hear yourself type i think?
my grandfather keeping his job at GM has nothing to do with slavery.
i agree all people are equal. so the american should have a job in america, and the african should have a job in africa. its called fucking geography, pretty simple folks.
wanting to keep jobs in america for america is not hateful, racists, or discriminatory.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
It's entirely realistic based on the only standard you've offered: safety.
So let me get this straight. You think an increase in trucks, but a decrease in accidents, all during periods where regulations existed, prove that "regulations work"???
You probably shouldn't say "more power to them" when you're demanding, at the point of a gun, that they should do things your way.
Ok. And if your wants come at the cost of others, they should be forced to pay that cost, regardless of their wants, needs, and standards?
Rape and murder laws are wants relative to your own body and life. The same cannot be said about truck drivers and trucking regulations. Comparing trucking regulations to rape/murder laws is inappropriate and silly. The average trucker who ignores every regulation you have likely still will not kill or hurt anyone, whereas everyone who resorts to rape or murder does kill or hurt someone.
Furthermore, a rapist or murderer can have no qualms with your rules. If he is willing to break them, he has announced that he has no interest in life or freedom. One can treat him however one wishes, based on his own moral code. A truck driver who simply wants to drive for 10 hours a day is not a rapist or a murderer, nor is he by default any danger whatsoever to you.
Hehe...why not? I mean, what happens if he gets in his truck and tries?
Force is anti-market. If you force me to pay for a traffic sign, force me to hang it up over a street, and force me to abide by it's rules, you're talking about guns, not dollars.
just as the mexican doesnt want the american to take his job. its called geography, and ther are only so many jobs to go around. maybe i should come to canada and take your job for half the pay, then we will see how you feel.
and i believe in equality.
You made a distinctly generalized statement by suggesting "Americans" have a greater right to their jobs than foreigners. And then you justify it by saying it's "local/national economics and local/national interests," as if either of those things could erase xenophobic attitudes.
It does once he uses force against his employer to keep it.
Hehe...thankfully this isn't true, or we'd all be digging for berries and hunting deer.
We obviously have different opinions on this. I not only think that unions are useless in America today, but that they are truly detrimental to the workers they are supposedly protecting. The biggest accomplishment they have these days is hastening the outsourcing of jobs and businesses.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
That's what I'm saying...just not as clearly as you did.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
First of all no one if arguing that a life in America is worth more than a life in Africa. We are talking about jobs here.
Secondly what do you suggest? Should we willing send as many jobs to other Nations as possible?
Do you feel the same way if you live near the border of a state, and a worker comes from the next state over to work in your local factory?
Why does it have to be about countries? It should be about people.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's not the Mexicans people are pissed off about. It's the lowballing.
It all depends on whether forced labor or violence are involved or not.
All those unionized high tech jobs going to India. Damn unionized nerds.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
somebody gets it
You keep harping on geography. All you are doing is basing your discrimination on nationality. Let it go.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
No - I think plenty of people are upset because it's Mexicans.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yep - we're hiring an IT manager at our company. If we have 2 candidates who appear equal on paper but one wants $5K less in salary, who do you think we're going to offer it to?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
i guess you dont mind good paying jobs being outsourced to india and china, while in america they are replaced with service industry jobs such as wal-mart? give me a fucking break. nice country and infrastructure your willing to leave for future generations.
and if you think the employers give a shit about the "equality of man" than you are sadly mistaken. they will take your job and ship it to the country with the lowest bidder without losing sleep. so it is up to us, AMERICANS, to protect our fucking jobs and future. period.