Not sure about the organization ( http://www.aclu.org/), but thought I'd post this just in case someone was interested in supporting by donating money to fund the new lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of this recently passed bill.
To play devil's advocate, you have to remember the fear mongering that Bush caused shortly after 9/11. It doesn't surprise me that the telecom companies went along with Bush's orders under the your either with us or against us pledge he was stating shortly after 9/11.
So I DISAGREE with Obama that the wiretapping should continue. (look I disagree with him Abooks!)
But I do side with Ammunity for the telecom companies.
Only because everyone was confused and frightened after 9/11 and I don't think anyone should go to jail because of this.
that was almost 7 years ago, there's no excuse for voting for this NOW
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I am a big Obama supporter and will continue to be even on days like today where I don't agree with his vote. Overall I still agree with his agenda and believe he's set realistic goals that have a good shot at making it through the checks and balances of congress without increasing taxes on the middle and poor classes.
I will never agree with him 100% so if you want me to defend him on this vote its not going to happen from me.
yeah, i guess only 25% renewable energy by 2025 is realistic for those who don't really want to threaten the power of the status quo
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I'm hoping this is strategic. Let's say Obama had voted nay. If we are attacked between now and November I wouldn't put it past the republicans (and certainly not Bushco) to play the evidence of such an attack linked to evidence collected from a "mysterious phone call". If properly staged (and run non stop on CNN) the repubs could use it to call obama "weak on defense".
Plus he knows he's going to overturn it once he's elected anyway.
It's farfetched I admit, but it doesn't make ANY sense.
yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah, that must be it....radiohead comes to mind....
you're living in a fantasy world
you're living in a fantasy world
or even
may pretty horses come to you as you sleep
it makes perfect sense, obama is a typical politician, nothing more and that you CAN believe in
Until there is a viable 3rd party candidate, I'm still voting for him for the reason that it will be guaranteed...
he's not John McCain.
do you think there will ever be a republican you guys won't be afraid of to not vote for whatever corporate whore the dems nominated?
what a fucking political system we have
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah, that must be it....radiohead comes to mind....
you're living in a fantasy world
you're living in a fantasy world
or even
may pretty horses come to you as you sleep
it makes perfect sense, obama is a typical politician, nothing more and that you CAN believe in
do you think there will ever be a republican you guys won't be afraid of to not vote for whatever corporate whore the dems nominated?
what a fucking political system we have
I'm living in a fantasy world? You are going for a guy that can't win in a million years, and if by some one in a million miracle he did win he wouldn't be able to get any thing done because he would have to get legislation by a corrupt congress and senate, their lawyers, lobbyists and a corporate owned news media.
I fully understand you guys think you're waging some kind of "mini revolution" with nader, but it ain't going to happen
I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution.
these are things I know Obama can do and things I am sure John McSame will not do.
shine on you crazy diamond! As for you Ralph, good luck I hope you get your funding!
yeah, i guess only 25% renewable energy by 2025 is realistic for those who don't really want to threaten the power of the status quo
Why the hell would you bring up 25% renewable energy? That is completely off topic.
And yes he has set the goal. But shit at least he's the first candidate who has a chance of winning to set some sort of goal.
It may not be perfect but I swear you people forget that 50% of Americans for whatever reason vote conservative. And its the job of the president to be the leader of all Americans not just a specific base.
So to be an effective President you have to work on compromises that fits the need of all Americans not just what the Fringe Left wants.
I really think a lot of you think that the issues that matter to you guys matter to the entire population but they just don't. And it sucks that half the population doesn't think in a more positive progressive manner but they just don't. I think Obama says it best when he said that he wants to be the President of all of the United States not just the base that votes for him.
And I come from a small Sierra Nevada mountain town that was 75% conservative so I know a lot about the conservative base and what issues matter most to them and its nothing that's talked about on this board.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
that was almost 7 years ago, there's no excuse for voting for this NOW
I'm only talking about the immunity part. That they don't get prosecuted for something that happened 7 years ago when Bush played on everyone's fears.
So you guys want some workers from AT&T, Verizon, etc to go to jail for this when they acted under Presidential orders shortly after a terrorist attack???
I don't agree with the bill but I do agree with the Immunity. It's not that hard to understand.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Why the hell would you bring up 25% renewable energy? That is completely off topic.
And yes he has set the goal. But shit at least he's the first candidate who has a chance of winning to set some sort of goal.
It may not be perfect but I swear you people forget that 50% of Americans for whatever reason vote conservative. And its the job of the president to be the leader of all Americans not just a specific base.
So to be an effective President you have to work on compromises that fits the need of all Americans not just what the Fringe Left wants.
I really think a lot of you think that the issues that matter to you guys matter to the entire population but they just don't. And it sucks that half the population doesn't think in a more positive progressive manner but they just don't. I think Obama says it best when he said that he wants to be the President of all of the United States not just the base that votes for him.
And I come from a small Sierra Nevada mountain town that was 75% conservative so I know a lot about the conservative base and what issues matter most to them and its nothing that's talked about on this board.
Fringe....blah blah blah
I've already said this to you but here goes the refresher.
Polls show that the majority of Americans support the things Nader is bringing to the table such as single payer UHC, decreased military budget/defense spending, etc....
I've already said this to you but here goes the refresher.
Polls show that the majority of Americans support the things Nader is bringing to the table such as single payer UHC, decreased military budget/defense spending, etc....
So you really think the conservatives who have voted in Bush for 8 years support Nader's programs. When they critique McCain for being to liberal?
I also know that if I work hard enough and ask the right polling questions I could have a poll that shows pretty much whatever I wanted it to show.
Suffice to say I don't trust polling much when it comes to these things. The conservatives I know in the small towns HATED Gore because of his environmental rhetoric and hated Nader because of what they view as an Anti-Gun/NRA stance. Even if they support UHC, lower defense spending, they would still vote Conservative due to National Security, Pro Life, Second Amendment and all the other Conservative issues that top there list.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I'm living in a fantasy world? You are going for a guy that can't win in a million years, and if by some one in a million miracle he did win he wouldn't be able to get any thing done because he would have to get legislation by a corrupt congress and senate, their lawyers, lobbyists and a corporate owned news media.
I fully understand you guys think you're waging some kind of "mini revolution" with nader, but it ain't going to happen
I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution.
these are things I know Obama can do and things I am sure John McSame will not do.
shine on you crazy diamond! As for you Ralph, good luck I hope you get your funding!
no mini-revolution....just keeping my integrity and morals intact i refuse to support this corrupt 2 party dictatorship any longer.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Comments
Thanks!
https://secure.aclu.org/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=4981&s_src=UNV080702FLh&s_subsrc=sub_action2&JServSessionIdr009=x4vcancm13.app24a
that was almost 7 years ago, there's no excuse for voting for this NOW
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeah, i guess only 25% renewable energy by 2025 is realistic for those who don't really want to threaten the power of the status quo
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaah, that must be it....radiohead comes to mind....
you're living in a fantasy world
you're living in a fantasy world
or even
may pretty horses come to you as you sleep
it makes perfect sense, obama is a typical politician, nothing more and that you CAN believe in
do you think there will ever be a republican you guys won't be afraid of to not vote for whatever corporate whore the dems nominated?
what a fucking political system we have
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I'm living in a fantasy world? You are going for a guy that can't win in a million years, and if by some one in a million miracle he did win he wouldn't be able to get any thing done because he would have to get legislation by a corrupt congress and senate, their lawyers, lobbyists and a corporate owned news media.
I fully understand you guys think you're waging some kind of "mini revolution" with nader, but it ain't going to happen
I'm not counting on real change. Perhaps we can repair our reputation in the world, rebalance the supreme court, and MAYBE restore a little bit of the constitution.
these are things I know Obama can do and things I am sure John McSame will not do.
shine on you crazy diamond! As for you Ralph, good luck I hope you get your funding!
Why the hell would you bring up 25% renewable energy? That is completely off topic.
And yes he has set the goal. But shit at least he's the first candidate who has a chance of winning to set some sort of goal.
It may not be perfect but I swear you people forget that 50% of Americans for whatever reason vote conservative. And its the job of the president to be the leader of all Americans not just a specific base.
So to be an effective President you have to work on compromises that fits the need of all Americans not just what the Fringe Left wants.
I really think a lot of you think that the issues that matter to you guys matter to the entire population but they just don't. And it sucks that half the population doesn't think in a more positive progressive manner but they just don't. I think Obama says it best when he said that he wants to be the President of all of the United States not just the base that votes for him.
And I come from a small Sierra Nevada mountain town that was 75% conservative so I know a lot about the conservative base and what issues matter most to them and its nothing that's talked about on this board.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I'm only talking about the immunity part. That they don't get prosecuted for something that happened 7 years ago when Bush played on everyone's fears.
So you guys want some workers from AT&T, Verizon, etc to go to jail for this when they acted under Presidential orders shortly after a terrorist attack???
I don't agree with the bill but I do agree with the Immunity. It's not that hard to understand.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Fringe....blah blah blah
I've already said this to you but here goes the refresher.
Polls show that the majority of Americans support the things Nader is bringing to the table such as single payer UHC, decreased military budget/defense spending, etc....
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5230574&postcount=9
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So you really think the conservatives who have voted in Bush for 8 years support Nader's programs. When they critique McCain for being to liberal?
I also know that if I work hard enough and ask the right polling questions I could have a poll that shows pretty much whatever I wanted it to show.
Suffice to say I don't trust polling much when it comes to these things. The conservatives I know in the small towns HATED Gore because of his environmental rhetoric and hated Nader because of what they view as an Anti-Gun/NRA stance. Even if they support UHC, lower defense spending, they would still vote Conservative due to National Security, Pro Life, Second Amendment and all the other Conservative issues that top there list.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
no mini-revolution....just keeping my integrity and morals intact
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way