most poetry is kind of bad

Bu2

Olderman.

FinsburyParkCarrots

olderman wrote:

no doubt that this forum has been a way for me to share my poetry and other writings. i like to play with words and their meanings. however, i have no delusions that anything i have ever writ, spit, split or otherwise shit has any literary value. if some have found my letters ok, i am pleased. if not, i am still pleased.

the best poetry, in my humble opinion, is that which grabs my attention and enables me to empathize with, or to understand, to some exent, the author's emotions, desires, and/or aspirations.

there are many great poems. i have read many good poems on this board.

this is a fun forum and i don't take it too seriously.

i have enjoyed reading this discussion.

thank you

I go along with that. Though I didn't care for the first, hit and run post in this thread, we turned the whole thing around and made something of it: perhaps because of our communal nature and fondness for posting with a view to receiving comments in return. I value discussion. Lighthearted or "serious", if it shows some good attempts to discuss what makes poetry good or bad, critical debate can be better than - and not the poor, parasitic relation of - creative writing, since it gets people stimulated and thoughtful about the relationships between writing and society.

I enjoy this message board environment for writing and reading. I enjoy the trivial, social banter on here, especially if it produces some entertainingly ephemeral, daft verse; I also acknowledge that many threads, dealing in poetic form, with issues such as depression and suicide, might not be to some people's literary tastes: but if they save lives, they serve the most profound, humane purpose.

I've my fingers in a few pies, creatively and academically. But in spite of that, these days, the forum here is, for me, a delightful distraction and still a useful sounding board for ideas.

reeferchief

writersu wrote:

it's just when people rhyme and can't come up with a word to complete the thought they are trying to put on paper and so they write a word that makes no sense to the rest of it just to have a word that rhymes

I think you will find there is a name for what you describe it is known as AKS, Anthony Kiedis Syndrome.:)

catefrances

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

For example, take the novel "A Passage To India." The authorial narrator seems to be intent on making a liberal imperialist commentary on the pitfalls of miltarised Raj life (especially in the descriptions of the arrest and trial of Aziz). But then the novel contradicts its own intention by creating the Orientalist caricatures of Professor Godbole, and the mysterious Marabar caves. I don't think the aim of studying that novel is to get inside Forster's head when he was writing it, but, rather, to see how his ideological assumptions conflict and reflect contradictory attitudes amongst his class to the question of Empire.

having never read 'a passage to india' i can't comment. and i'd be interetsed to know fins what you thought of 'wuthering heights' if you've read it. for so long i was under the impression that this was a 'chick's book'. some sort of classic romance. last year my eldest daughter was assigned to read it for school and for some reason i figured i should read it. if only so i could discuss it with her. anyhow, i was suprised to discover that all these years i'd been misled, maybe by myself, maybe by other's opinions. that whole heathcliff/catherine thing, i didn't see it as a romance.

FinsburyParkCarrots

catefrances wrote:

having never read 'a passage to india' i can't comment. and i'd be interetsed to know fins what you thought of 'wuthering heights' if you've read it. for so long i was under the impression that this was a 'chick's book'. some sort of classic romance. last year my eldest daughter was assigned to read it for school and for some reason i figured i should read it. if only so i could discuss it with her. anyhow, i was suprised to discover that all these years i'd been misled, maybe by myself, maybe by other's opinions. that whole heathcliff/catherine thing, i didn't see it as a romance.

Oh, Wuthering Heights is an immensely complex and multi-layered book. It's a tale of madness, obsession, control-freakery, domestic terror and psychic trauma. The portrayal of the maniacal, obsessive, paranoid control-freak Heathcliff, with his amorality, superstitions, and supernatural visions, also has some racist, imperialist overtones. Personally, I find the book a little too bleak to work. It's a pity Emily didn't live to write more novels, though.

BinFrog

writersu wrote:

no, not at all. not all rhyming is corny.

hell, I have rhymed many many times in writing......

it's just when people rhyme and can't come up with a word to complete the thought they are trying to put on paper and so they write a word that makes no sense to the rest of it just to have a word that rhymes

That's why a lot of my stuff doesn't rhyme. You can't force words to fit.

catefrances

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Oh, Wuthering Heights is an immensely complex and multi-layered book. It's a tale of madness, obsession, control-freakery, domestic terror and psychic trauma. The portrayal of the maniacal, obsessive, paranoid control-freak Heathcliff, with his amorality, superstitions, and supernatural visions, also has some racist, imperialist overtones. Personally, I find the book a little too bleak to work. It's a pity Emily didn't live to write more novels, though.

i found heathcliff to be quite vampiric in his behaviour. from his vague beginnings you were just never sure about him. i was so pleasantly surprised with wuthering heights.
explain the racist overtones to me as you see them..

FinsburyParkCarrots

I'm a bit busy, right now, but here's a good link, to a review of a book on Wuthering Heights:

http://www.imperiumjournal.com/0pages/30013.html

Being Enlightened

I think it's great that people here basically took what seemed to be a mean-spirited, nonsense thread and turn it into a great discussion! Just goes to show that creative minds are at work and wish to rise above.

On the subject, for me, I find that poetry gives voice to many thoughts and feelings that I sometimes have a hard time trying to express in any other form. I share here because I like Pearl Jam and think that people here seem to enjoy sharing their thoughts creatively with fellow fans.

I find a poem to be good if it hits a nerve or expresses something that I can relate to. I enjoy works that seem to come from the heart, even if they're not neccessarily good examples of poetry. I feel that if someone has taken the time to pour their heart out, tried to give to us a little bit of thier soul, tried to reach out, that they deserve to know if I enjoyed what I read or how they made me feel...(when I am able to respond as sometimes, I just don't have the time).

I think we can all agree that we write for the love of writing and being creative, not for any monetary reward (as if! ) or an ego boost. I mean, after all, it's a band's message board. If someone comments on a post, that's great! If not, well, hey, at least the poem didn't just rot in a drawer, maybe a few people read it, and that's great too! That's why I'm not a harsh critic of anyone's work (even if I had the credentials to be, which I do not ). I just want to feel what other people on this planet are feeling through their words. I want to feel that connectedness, that closeness that some poetry makes me feel. To know that, even with all our differences, we're all the same, "all just breakin like waves".

To me, good poetry evokes strong emotions and vivid pictures, even if it's trying to be elusive. Bad poetry is that, "roses are red, violets are blue" tripe because it's a cop-out and feels like it's trying too hard and failing miserably. ---And even then, I can usually find comic relief in it!!! I guess I just like to try to see the best in everything and I want people to feel good about themselves.

Finally, on the subject of rhyming, I also agree that it cannot be forced. Some of the best poems are ones that rhyme, but only because it's like they don't even know it!

Also, it's great to see everyone's thought and opinions on the subject and get a feel for where they're coming from. So, even though the original post was silly, it sure blossomed into a wonderful discussion.

And to you, quagmire---GIGIDY, GIGIDY!

catefrances

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I'm a bit busy, right now, but here's a good link, to a review of a book on Wuthering Heights:

http://www.imperiumjournal.com/0pages/30013.html

hmm. so when you speak of the racial overtones of wuthering heights, is that an opinion you personally hold or not?
sometimes i find that other people's interpretations of texts colours my own judgement.

DopeBeastie

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

Oh darling Rachey, aka Pasta
There's no earthy alabaster
shinier, more monumental
than your beauty, heaven-sent. All
poesy's nonsense, hardly artsy,
if not offered to Ms Nazi.



Ahem. Can I go now?

it's a bleedin' masterpiece, finsistrue


;D


(you're not talking about my butt, are you? it's pretty alabaster and stuff, shy thing that i am)


xox

FinsburyParkCarrots

catefrances wrote:

hmm. so when you speak of the racial overtones of wuthering heights, is that an opinion you personally hold or not?
sometimes i find that other people's interpretations of texts colours my own judgement.

My approach to novels is often as a trainee in post-colonial criticism. I will often home in on how a book written by a canonical British author, on the one hand, makes a seemingly liberal discussion criticising racism, but on the other unwittingly endorses a lot of the ideology of imperialism: in the narrative construction of the Other, the predatory, irrational, amoral baddie. You can also see this kind of contradiction happening in that famous book by Emily's sister Charlotte, "Jane Eyre." Jane imagines herself as a rebel slave seeking emancipation, but at the same time, Bertha Mason and even her brother Richard are described as somehow degenerate because their "phrenological propensities" - the shapes of their heads - are somehow inferior to the preferred (Causasian?) model.

One might want to know, what were dominant attitudes to race and difference around 1847-8, when these two novels were being written? Bronte country - Howth, in Yorkshire - was much more industrial than it is today: are there documentary sources from the period that reflect any anxiety about colonialism and racial identity? How might these ideas have leaked into the texts?


It's good though, isn't it, that other people's opinions change your approach to a text? Even when Hollywood botches a classic, we can analyse the ideological reasons why they made certain editorial choices in cutting out potentially subversive material, or foregrounded certain themes because of their relevance to a contemporary audience.