TM - 10-20% for Fan Club? Says Who?

jomohrer

How do we know about the 10% TM allotments for fan clubs? Go listen to your MSG boots from 2003. Eddie says that something like 8000-9000 seats were sold through the fan club during that show. I believe it was night #2 that he said that. That seems like more than 10% to me.

Also, I dont think TM is in cahoots with scalpers. That's a very small-scale idea. Do you realize how many tickets TM sells a year? The small % of those which are scalable do not merit the risk of making illegal alliances with scalping companies. That's just paranoia and the numbers don't really add up. I would be more likely to believe that TM employees are in cahoots, with pay-offs for preferable access to ticket pools. But I doubt its a corporate policy in any way.

JUST MY OPINION.

SkeeterB

TM rules were put in after 2003.

Poncier

There was a big article about fan clubs a couple of years ago that mentioned the 10% rule.
In the past 10club had negotiated around it (hence the 2003 crowd at MSG), but speculation is that they may not have been able to in recent years, nobody knows for certain (well obviously Tim knows, but he isn't telling).

decides2dream

2003 = NO fanclub limits.
i think? 2005 or 2006 it was ANNOUNCED here on the board by the 10c that indded there is NOW a 10% limit on fanclub tickets, implemented by TM, thus out of 10c/pj's hands, no control...and can only make due with what is given to share with the fanclub. so yes, it's not 2003 anymore. glad i was there for those AMAZING nights at MSG in 2003, and count myself as VERY fortunate to have 10c tix for both nights in 2008 as well.

Indifference

Use google and you can find plenty of articles here is one:

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2005/05/01/fan_club_sites_eliminate_the_middleman_with_presales/

"Most bands can now only get 8 to 10 percent of a show's tickets because they run up against tight contracts between Ticketmaster and the venues."

Better article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/musicNews/idUSN2624164020070326

Great White North

Once the ticketmaster on sale happens you should be able to tell where the 10C boundaries are for seats by looking at all the brokers websites and see where they don't have any tickets (or very very few)

redrock

Fan club sites eliminate the middleman with 'presales'
By Steve Morse, Globe Staff | May 1, 2005

.....The biggest trend is for bands to offer tickets through their online fan club sites, with some charging annual membership fees. U2 charges $40, the Dave Matthews Band charges $35, and Madonna charges about $38.

The intent is to get tickets into the hands of diehard fans before the tickets go on sale to everyone else. Typically, bands hold Internet ''presales" to club members a week or two before a public sale, which is usually handled by broker Ticketmaster......

....Most bands can now only get 8 to 10 percent of a show's tickets because they run up against tight contracts between Ticketmaster and the venues. In the touring business, concert sites such as the Tweeter Center and Bank of America Pavilion make agreements with Ticketmaster to sell tickets and charge customers a fee for that service. Ticketmaster then shares part of the service fees with the music promoter and the venue, but not the bands......

.....Some venue promoters dislike fan club sites. A Clear Channel Entertainment executive says a fan club presale can hurt the subsequent public sale of tickets because many nonmembers will assume the best seats are already taken. For that reason, Clear Channel in Boston, the executive adds, makes sure that many good tickets are still held for the public sale......

EDIT: Indifference.. you were quicker than me! The Reuters article is interesting!

Fighting Hellfish

The other side of this is that those lucky enough to get tickets thru 10 Club will have significantly better seats ow that there are only about 2000 seats available, instead of 8000 like in 2003

In2Deep

2003, those were the days. cheap tix and unlimited availability.

sward

So...I see that it says 'Some bands' encounter issues. Does that mean that some bands can somehow bypass this limitation?? That said, it seems obvious by how many people got shut out of the MSG shows, that there aren't 4000 blocks of tickets available anymore. But who's to say that PJ's block is only 10%? Ah well, be nice to know this officially.

wickedmonkeyz

look no further than how fast the NE shows are selling out...even dc and camden within a few hours...the supply is no longer there

DriftingByTheStorm

Yeah it says "most bands", but you gotta be thinking ... "Why would Ticketmaster do ANYTHING for Pearl Jam?"

AHahah.
Think about it.
Kelly Curtis calls up Ticketmaster, and is like, "Yeah my band wants to neogtiate with you on that 10% rule."

Ticketmaster, "Okay. What band is that, again?"

KC: "Yeah, its Pearl Jam. P-e-a-r-l J-a-m"

Ticketmaster - ::laughs out loud:: "AHhahah. I don't fucking think so buddy. FUCK those guys!"

Hahaha.

You don't take someone to congress in a monopoly lawsuit, and then have a lot of chips to bargain with. lol



To add,
i belive Philly '05 was the show where 10C staff "officialy" told us that tickets for that show were in limited supply ... so, that along with the article, and the proof in the pudding here with MSG ... its pretty obvious to most around here the rules have in fact changed.

Hatfield

jomohrer wrote:

How do we know about the 10% TM allotments for fan clubs? Go listen to your MSG boots from 2003. Eddie says that something like 8000-9000 seats were sold through the fan club during that show. I believe it was night #2 that he said that. That seems like more than 10% to me.

Also, I dont think TM is in cahoots with scalpers. That's a very small-scale idea. Do you realize how many tickets TM sells a year? The small % of those which are scalable do not merit the risk of making illegal alliances with scalping companies. That's just paranoia and the numbers don't really add up. I would be more likely to believe that TM employees are in cahoots, with pay-offs for preferable access to ticket pools. But I doubt its a corporate policy in any way.

JUST MY OPINION.

You poor innocent bastard. Go to encore tickets and see how many tickets are available before the onsale date. Go there right now and look up MSG. Clear Channel owns ticketmaster and many brokers. What saddens me is that the government spends time talking to Roger Clemmons but doesn't call this shit on the carpet. The poor black guy can't stand within 100 feet of the venue to make 30 dollars on a ticket but brokers can get tickets before they even go on sale and sell them for 100% more than the original price.

In 2003 you sent your money in through the mail. They received so many orders that Pearl Jam worked out a deal (probably had to pay a little money, I would think) and got the 9,000 people a seat, leaving ticketmaster with only half of the house.

smartass1235

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Yeah it says "most bands", but you gotta be thinking ... "Why would Ticketmaster do ANYTHING for Pearl Jam?"

AHahah.
Think about it.
Kelly Curtis calls up Ticketmaster, and is like, "Yeah my band wants to neogtiate with you on that 10% rule."

Ticketmaster, "Okay. What band is that, again?"

KC: "Yeah, its Pearl Jam. P-e-a-r-l J-a-m"

Ticketmaster - ::laughs out loud:: "AHhahah. I don't fucking think so buddy. FUCK those guys!"

Hahaha.

You don't take someone to congress in a monopoly lawsuit, and then have a lot of chips to bargain with. lol



To add,
i belive Philly '05 was the show where 10C staff "officialy" told us that tickets for that show were in limited supply ... so, that along with the article, and the proof in the pudding here with MSG ... its pretty obvious to most around here the rules have in fact changed.

A band that sells out almost every venue they play has plenty to bargain with,. A seat sold is how ticketbastard makes their money.

smithnic

http://blogs.suntimes.com/derogatis/2008/03/sxsw_dispatch_6_the_ticketmast.html

an overview of Ticketmaster's plans for the future... be afraid, be very afraid

DriftingByTheStorm

smartass1235 wrote:

A band that sells out almost every venue they play has plenty to bargain with,. A seat sold is how ticketbastard makes their money.

and so the reason they choose not to make this bargain is what again, exactly?

The fees TM gets on general sales clearly kick the shit out of what they make on tickets given to fanclubs, or the rules would not exist in the first place.
Think about it.

And Pearl Jam has no bargaining power, because they have no alternative.

Thats what the lawsuit was about in the first place.
You want them to play 3rd rate hockey stadiums with acoustics that suck asshole, yeah great ... they have bargaining power.

Otherwise, they are stuck.

smithnic

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

And Pearl Jam has no bargaining power, because they have no alternative.

Thats what the lawsuit was about in the first place.
You want them to play 3rd rate hockey stadiums with acoustics that suck asshole, yeah great ... they have bargaining power.

Otherwise, they are stuck.

I would love to see PJ at a small hockey arena! What do you think MSG is used for?
If they went at it with small venues and only their fanclub, how awesome would that be? Sure it'd be a lot of work, but wouldn't we all feel better paying near $100 a ticket knowing that A) it was at a tiny venue and that it was done all by Pearl Jam and TenClub, not some big corporation?

BrainofRobbieJ

jomohrer wrote:

Also, I dont think TM is in cahoots with scalpers. That's a very small-scale idea. Do you realize how many tickets TM sells a year? The small % of those which are scalable do not merit the risk of making illegal alliances with scalping companies. That's just paranoia and the numbers don't really add up. I would be more likely to believe that TM employees are in cahoots, with pay-offs for preferable access to ticket pools. But I doubt its a corporate policy in any way.

JUST MY OPINION.

Has anyone heard that TicketMaster purchased some ticket broker/auction sites? I heard an interview on NPR with some record industry guy who said this is happening. And that TM is now selling their own tickets on thiose sites at inflated prices. If this is true it has to be illegal. Has anyone else heard this.

And where do the broker sites get tickets they sell if there is no legal affiliation? There will be shows listed for sale on broker sites at inflated prices before the show is officially announced.

I know a guy who is not in the fan club. He will be front and center in the PIT at every PJ show in Camden. I'll be 10 rows back thinking is this fair? But then I compare my $400-1,000 savings and know I am having a good time as well. So that makes me feel better. And I've been right up front for some PJ GA shows. So I've had my own good days too. So I can't complain.

wickedmonkeyz

smithnic wrote:

http://blogs.suntimes.com/derogatis/2008/03/sxsw_dispatch_6_the_ticketmast.html

an overview of Ticketmaster's plans for the future... be afraid, be very afraid

"Resale is a $3 to $4 billion market on top of original ticket sales, Moriarty said, and he made clear that Ticketmaster hopes to dominate that market and forge ahead to a world where there are no set prices for tickets, with value fluctuating based on demand. “Ultimately, there’s an inevitability to any market, which is to say, you’ve got to let buyers and sellers trade freely in a way that’s unencumbered in a way to really maximize the market, and I think that’s where we’re going.”

:rolleyes:

smartass1235

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

and so the reason they choose not to make this bargain is what again, exactly?

The fees TM gets on general sales clearly kick the shit out of what they make on tickets given to fanclubs, or the rules would not exist in the first place.
Think about it.

And Pearl Jam has no bargaining power, because they have no alternative.

Thats what the lawsuit was about in the first place.
You want them to play 3rd rate hockey stadiums with acoustics that suck asshole, yeah great ... they have bargaining power.

Otherwise, they are stuck.

If you look at the prices given for the south shows on TM and look at what we are paying, you will see we are paying the fees too. I think someone else hit it on the head when they said if people know all the good seats are gone to the fanclub, they wont bother.

BrainofRobbieJ

BrainofRobbieJ wrote:

Has anyone heard that TicketMaster purchased some ticket broker/auction sites? I heard an interview on NPR with some record industry guy who said this is happening. And that TM is now selling their own tickets on thiose sites at inflated prices. If this is true it has to be illegal. Has anyone else heard this.

And where do the broker sites get tickets they sell if there is no legal affiliation? There will be shows listed for sale on broker sites at inflated prices before the show is officially announced.

I know a guy who is not in the fan club. He will be front and center in the PIT at every PJ show in Camden. I'll be 10 rows back thinking is this fair? But then I compare my $400-1,000 savings and know I am having a good time as well. So that makes me feel better. And I've been right up front for some PJ GA shows. So I've had my own good days too. So I can't complain.

OK so my post don't make much sense now. I type too slow. I went back and read all the links you guys left. The conclusion? Going to concerts will suck in the future if you are not rich. Reselling!!! This has got to be illegal. I just won't go anymore. BUT like my father always said, "There is an ass for every seat." And that translates literally here. They will do whatever and still get paid and fill the place. AND the true fans most probably younger too will suffer by sitting on the "LAWN" with binoculars!!!

BrainofRobbieJ

smithnic wrote:

I would love to see PJ at a small hockey arena! What do you think MSG is used for?
If they went at it with small venues and only their fanclub, how awesome would that be? Sure it'd be a lot of work, but wouldn't we all feel better paying near $100 a ticket knowing that A) it was at a tiny venue and that it was done all by Pearl Jam and TenClub, not some big corporation?

I AM WITH YOU BROTHER. I just hope all these new ideas does not kill PJ's way of trying to help us out. If it gets too complicated maybe they'll pull the plug. What I still don't understand is how there are no bands powerful enough to work with venues without TM or Live Nation or whoever. Bands like PJ, Dave Matthews, Tool, etc., should get together finacially and make their own ticket service for fans. You know and say we won't use your venues unless you sign our contracts.

My biggest fears is this is killing rock music like MP3's sort of already half way did.

HoP

http://seekingalpha.com/article/60260-ticketmaster-buys-ticketsnow-for-265-million

BrainofRobbieJ

HoP wrote:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/60260-ticketmaster-buys-ticketsnow-for-265-million

This is exactly what I heard that I mentioned earlier. Thanks HoP. This has got to be illegal. They are basically scalping their own product. NOOOOO!!! I am losing faith in everything music related. Someone in a high place please open your eyes. This is very bad. Along with all the other articles you guys found. We have to stop going and supporting this. But we won't. We as a people don't stand up for anything anymore. We take it like the numbed society we've become. Ed has been trying to wake us up for years. But you guys that bash Ed for getting political this is what happens. Special groups taking care of each other in tall buildings, making deals. Is this how our parents raised us?? Damn!

Get_Right

wickedmonkeyz wrote:

look no further than how fast the NE shows are selling out...even dc and camden within a few hours...the supply is no longer there

this is 100% correct
A lot more 10c members since 2003 and a lot fewer tickets available to the 10c. Its really that simple and thats why getting tix is such clusterf*ck