matts drum sound.., need opinions

drummer96

ok, so im not gonna get in the age old "who is the best pj drummer ever" debate. i love matt, hes an amazing talent, not sure if he is my favorite one to hold the throne with the band (jack irons had a more soulful, groovy stlye that i think fit the band better, versus matts more four on the floor, off time approach) but nontheless, i DO think the band is extremely happy with matt and they are still the best rock and roll band out there. heres my point though, and i want replies from other drummers as well as non drummers.... his live drum sound he had with his ayotte kit (98' and 2000 tours) sounded soooo much better than his current yamaha kit! know this should be in the gearhead section, but im curious to see if the "average" pearl jam fan feels this way. or even notices it for that matter. if you go on you tube or listen to any of the bootlegs from those tours, his drum sounds are so musical and up front. they fit better in the mix, and make the band sound so much more "rock and roll" to me. i think he has used a keplinger snare drum even during those years, but it either is a different one now or tuned different now because, in my opinion, i get disgusted hearing his drums live nowadays. (studio sound isnt good either, i hope brendan obrien pushes them to use a more musical sound on the new record) they are so dull, non musical and just dont help the overall musics sound at all. im not sure what there thoughts are on this, sounds to me like they want a "fatter" tone from the drums now, but i wish he would get back to that old sound soooo bad. thoughts????

vedderfan10

Sorry - I thought that said you needed "onions"...never mind. Yay Matt!

iamrockmusic

interesting... i was listening to riot act today on the way home from work, thinking to myself "i really don't like the way his drums sound on this record". i am a drummer and love matt overall, but i would tend to agree. i thought his drum sound at the phoenix show in 2000 was killer, whereas now i think he's got a little too much boom going on. he also sounded great in 98. overall, i think yamaha makes great drums, although i won't pretend to know what line matt uses from them. may just be how they're mic'd up now too, although their FOH sound guy is great and would probably know how to get around that. so it must be the drum sound itself and i do agree that overall, he has a less musical sound than he did on the binaural tour.

um, so that's my long-winded way of saying "yes, i agree with you"

side note, i thought the drum sound on avocado was crazy good though... look no further than severed hand for proof. not talking about what he's playing, but the sound is great... and many have complained that this sounded overly slick, but i never really thought so. i simply thought they tightened up the drum sound and mixed things differently...

Soulfire42

Here's an opinion from a non-gearhead...

There was a time when Pearl Jam was looking for a drummer and I mused about how cool it would be for Pearl Jam to land Nirvana's drummer, Tool's (and I figured at the time that this was probably a stretch) or Soundgarden's drummer. I'll confess to being one of the people who felt their drums just weren't the same as those from either the Ten or Vs. days and felt like their music suffered because of it. I feel it is fine to state this without feeling like any less of a fan of the band. I enjoyed the showmanship of Dave and enjoyed his performances on stuff like Unplugged or other recorded live shows I got my hands on much more than watching the goofy and just odd drumming style of Jack Irons (no offense intended, just my opinion). When I saw them live in 95 at Red Rocks I was sort of stunned that there was this chicken-looking fellow flopping around on the drumkit and I commented to my friends at the time that I missed Dave. So there's my bias, out and in the open.

Well, we didn't land Nirvana's or Tool's drummer as I had once hoped, but we got Matt and I was stoked. Then albums came out with him and I was underwhelmed. I wasn't feeling anything as remarkable from his drumming like I felt on many of his old Soundgarden songs. This puzzled me. At first I figured it would just take a little bit for him to settle in and then he'd wow me. I found myself waiting and waiting for that moment. I have seen him in concert three times now and have experienced his Evenflow solos and such, and I'm just not that impressed. I hate to say it, but Godsmack's drumming and drum duels have fed me that wow factor that Matt hasn't managed since joining Pearl Jam (and don't confuse that with me liking Godsmack more than Pearl Jam...). I keep feeling like Matt has whatever it is I'm craving, but he just isn't unleashing it. This even led me to go to his MySpace site to check out what he was offering there. Honestly, I found it to be pretty terrible and uninteresting. Maybe there are some technical things he is doing there that are amazing, but they aren't moving me. So I find myself to still be waiting for Matt to unleash whatever it is I am craving...

(I will admit that he's done a few things that have made me take notice and leave me thinking he's got it somewhere, just hidden... rather than not having it at all)

12345AGNST1

I absolutely agree with you man. I even made a thread about this a month ago. Matts Ayotte set was incredible. He started with DW in soundgarden, then Ayotte towards the end of soundgarden and beginning of PJ. Now the yamaha. Ayotte was th best. As far as the snares, he has always used keplingers. But his Ayotte snare was flat out perfect. I still cant believe that snare sound. Listen to the 00 boots, especially the euro boots. His snare is so high in the mix. It sounds like a bomb when he does flams. It almost sounds like the snare wires are off, but its still such a deep tone. then when he does snare rolls it sounds completely different. That snare is around $1200 now i looked it up. it has wood hoops and is made out of steel.

harmless_little_f***

Matt's cool. His fat snare drums sounds (that he obviously loves oh so much) definitely aren't. He sounds like he's playing bin lids most of the time..

Pidello

I think when ed started playing guitar on many of the songs the rest of the band kinda followed his "slopy" playing still. mike and matt in particular.

(then again ed´s guitar sound got better once he got rid of that damn hiwatt amp.)

matt should get his dw or ayotte kit back - but lets face it, thats some big money he would miss out on his yamaha promotion deal!

and yes, i would like to see him play a bit "more" too...



peace my friends

Cropduster84

I'm not a drummer but i am a musician (bass/guitar), so I understand a little bit of whats being said here.....

I definately prefer the sound of Matt on the 2000 boots, his drums sound punchy and urgent.....

I was watching Immagine In Cornice yesterday and couldnt help feel so disappointed with SOLAT on there, especially after watching Unplugged.....Dave owns on that performance.....

tama_drummer91

I know I'm in the minority here, but other than Jack Irons tone on No Code and Yield, the last 2 records have had my favorite drum sound. I am drummer and I love Matt's drum tone. I understand where all of you are coming from about the 1998 and 2000 boots. Yes they were much more fatter and more punchy sounding, but I actually don't care that much for that tone with my PJ. Like Dave A., the drums sounded too classic/modern rock and that doesn't seem like PJ to me. The boys are in a league of their own. The drum sounds on both Riot Act and Avocado are warm and fairly open sounding. I much prefer that(for PJ) than a dry thud or overly wet attack such as Dave A's.

Army & Navy

You couldn't hear Matt on the 2003 boots, especially the fast songs. 2006 was better.

tama_drummer91

Army & Navy wrote:

You couldn't hear Matt on the 2003 boots, especially the fast songs. 2006 was better.

The drums on 2006 are certainly a lot better than 2003. That was a terrible year for boots in general, especially for the sound of the drums. Very muddy, warm sounding...yes, but way too muddy. 2006 was much more clearer and crisp.

12345AGNST1

djerdap wrote:

The only time when I was like: "WTF is wrong with Matt´s drums?" was on the 2005 bootlegs, where his drumkit sounds like shit. Tin cans, to be more precise. On 2006 the sound was better, although not as good as on the pre-2005 boots. My favorite ones were from 2003.

I know exactly what your saying. His snare sounds like absolute garbage in the 05 gorge show. 2 days ago i was going to listen to that boot but i literally said to myself "oh yea, his snare sounds like shit, forget it."

ggraeber

I rarely post but I read the board a lot or use to. I totally agree about the old (Ray ) Ayotte drums. They are some of the best sounding drums ever, period. I do think Matt's sound has gotten better over the last 2 albums though. If anyone wants to listen to similar drum sounds check out anything from 2000 era Our Lady Peace and Jeremy Taggart. These drums with the keplinger snares are simply phenomenal. In fact these kits are nearly impossible to find on eBay for a decent price they are so valued. Love those old Ayottes and I saw 3 shows that tour in row. they definitely sound the best. I much prefer these to the old vintagy sounds of Jack's kits, but I do like the "slap" sound of his snare and always have. Everyone have a great day.

Lone Wolf

Army & Navy wrote:

You couldn't hear Matt on the 2003 boots, especially the fast songs. 2006 was better.

Yes, I totally agree.
I love the way his drums sounds on the ´06 boots compared to the '00 and ´03 boots.

And while we´re at it:
Turn Mike´s volume up and turn Ed´s down! (guitar that is, not the vocals)

Stephen Flow

I'd agree that 2000 sounds way better than 2003, but I think 2006 was pretty good, almost on par with 2000... but really this is not enough to phase me...

Matt is by far my favorite PJ drummer as far as style is concerned... Dave A. brought some good stuff to the band, but I don't think he had the musical skills to evolve in the direction that the band was going and his departure was detrimental to the bands life. Jack was great for certain songs, especially ones he helped create, like who you are and in my tree, however his style is a bit too loose for my taste... I think he'd be better suited in a jam band, honestly.

Really my only complaint with Matt's sound probably isn't even his "sound" at all persay, but I just think on certain songs he plays too god damned fast... (which might even be a whole band effort) I mean yeah they have a lot of songs to breeze through in one sitting, but on the songs he starts out on he plays them 10x faster than the album versions... which is ok I guess, but I think some stuff gets lost in translation.

HermanBloom

I too love the Ayottes better; much warmer sound.

HermanBloom

Not a fan of Jack; loved Dave A. and all the cymbals he used; wish Matt would add a splash and china symbal to have more musical sounds

drummer96

hey, well thanks for all the replies guys. im glad im not the only one who feels the drum sound plays a major role in the overall sound for them live. foe all that didnt know this, his yamaha kit he plays live now(the natural wood colored one) are made out of birch. this is, in my opinion the problem. the ayottes and dw's, were maple. most drummers use maple drums. well let me say that again: most drummes LIVE use maple. birch is used alot in the studio, versus on the road. ive never owned any birch drums before but i think they just arent as bright sounding and dont have the attack that maple do. thus, the different drum sounds since 98 and 2000 tours. as far as the drum sounds on the albums matt was on, i think the last one was probably the best. but still not very good in my opinion. riot acts drum sound was the worst, and binaural a little better. obviously, this is a BAND decision though. when you are in a band as big as they are, matt or any one of the other guys will not just show up and say "ok, ive got a new sound that i like better". they obviously like that sound better, which is ok i guess, but if they took a poll i bet they would find that more people would go for the old sound better!!! but as long as they keep pumping out albums, im cool.... lol

iamrockmusic

drummer96 wrote:

foe all that didnt know this, his yamaha kit he plays live now(the natural wood colored one) are made out of birch. this is, in my opinion the problem. the ayottes and dw's, were maple. most drummers use maple drums. well let me say that again: most drummes LIVE use maple. birch is used alot in the studio, versus on the road. ive never owned any birch drums before but i think they just arent as bright sounding and dont have the attack that maple do. thus, the different drum sounds since 98 and 2000 tours.

I have owned and played oak, maple and birch sets in the studio and live and i tend to agree with this statement for the most part...
relate this to matt's sound however you want, but in my experience, birch actually sounds best in the studio because you can get a good punchy sound without too much overtone. but when i play live, if the birch toms aren't miked (and frequently they are not), they are tough to hear. maples don't need the microphone if you're playing in a small club. but a birch kick drum has just as much volume as a maple and i think has a much more controlled sound (think charlie watts kick drum, he frequently plays gretsch birch kits live and gets a great sound). even if my birch kick isn't miked, it moves plenty o' air and carries a great sound. but the toms can be a bit quiet. this kind of matches with what people are saying about matt's sound now on the yamaha birches. by the way, i NEVER play my birch snare... it flat out sucks.
and oak drums are about one thing: volume. not a great tone, but DAMN, are they loud, great for playing hard rock live.

if the finish on my drums were the same, i'd play my birch kick live and my maple toms and snare. i suppose vanity overrules sound when it comes to playing live, which i hope you'll forgive me for. but a dark walnut kick drum with electric blue toms would just look a little odd onstage... i'm pretty much all birch in the studio.

drummerboy_73

azdrummerboy wrote:

I have owned and played oak, maple and birch sets in the studio and live and i tend to agree with this statement for the most part...
relate this to matt's sound however you want, but in my experience, birch actually sounds best in the studio because you can get a good punchy sound without too much overtone. but when i play live, if the birch toms aren't miked (and frequently they are not), they are tough to hear. maples don't need the microphone if you're playing in a small club. but a birch kick drum has just as much volume as a maple and i think has a much more controlled sound (think charlie watts kick drum, he frequently plays gretsch birch kits live and gets a great sound). even if my birch kick isn't miked, it moves plenty o' air and carries a great sound. but the toms can be a bit quiet. this kind of matches with what people are saying about matt's sound now on the yamaha birches. by the way, i NEVER play my birch snare... it flat out sucks.
and oak drums are about one thing: volume. not a great tone, but DAMN, are they loud, great for playing hard rock live.

if the finish on my drums were the same, i'd play my birch kick live and my maple toms and snare. i suppose vanity overrules sound when it comes to playing live, which i hope you'll forgive me for. but a dark walnut kick drum with electric blue toms would just look a little odd onstage... i'm pretty much all birch in the studio.

I'm right there with you guys on the '00 to '06 comparisons. It's weird how crisp and straight-up the drums were on the Euro '00 boots, but the first '00 US boot I listened to, they were muddy as hell. '03 sucked, '06 was a slight improvement. I LOVE the sounds on the '98 boots - Corduory from LO2L is one of my favorites to listen to Matt's playing on - he just killed it on that tune and the drums sounded fantastic. Yamaha has come a ways in their drums over the last few years, but the sound of them live at a PJ show vs. Matt's Ayotte kits/Keplinger snares don't even come close.

I also play a birch kit, and find it is a better "all-around" kit, and have gotten great studio results, but I do play a maple piccolo or sometimes metal snare. Try some Evans coated G2's on birch toms and they work pretty well live as well. CHEERS!

RITFWinCO

This is probably one of the best posts I have read through.

I am a lay listener and have noticed a difference across the tours. When listening to post Europe 2000 shows, I always thought the perceived inferior drumming sound on these boots was due to Matt's style (compared to prior drummers) or to not enough volume directed to the drums on the recordings. This provides some good perspective on what may be going on.

I hope they take your advice because I listen to older shows and I can hear the drum sound better and I think it enhances the songs WAY better. As a lay guy, I did like Dave A's crashing of the cymbols even if it is rock-n-roll cliche. Just sounded right to me.