Before The Flood

FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
More than copper shadows, more than long
tree leaf silhouettes upon the crack-
dusted sunbeige pavement, now a throng
of clouding black lays down upon the back
of summer afternoons to rain the night
of war upon our days of lust-made blight.

And more than gutter shallows, thunder full
and choking roads to nowhere, more than high
burst pulsing river roars, a flood will cull
us all, us hopeless waste, and bring on nigh
death's sealing black glut water pulsing grave.
No ark will come. No penitence will save.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • DopeBeastieDopeBeastie Posts: 2,513
    Hey. I like this one.

    I like that it's scary-ish, and dark-ish, and forboding, and plots our demise, so to speak. I like that it's hopeless.


    I don't like the "crack-dusted, sunbeige", and I wish there was a stronger word for "rain" in L5. I'd like to see it "bust" down the night of war. Because it's a violent image, and "rain" is just too gentle.

    The second stanza paints a good dark image, too. But, I do think that you're using too many words to describe the same thing. I'm thinking you can get more oompf with some economy. Now, if you're using a set form, well, then, you might be stuck with whatcha got.

    Remember that crit you offered that guy who used too many words? Like the guitarist who just learned to solo, and doodled his way into being just too much, and for the sake of being just too much, because he could? While I wont currently agree with you on that particular assessment, I will say that I am guilty of it, here and there... and perhaps I have seen a trend in that fashion in your recent works. It seems that here you stretch where you could contract a bit.

    Anyway. I hope it's cool that I offered crit on this, Fins. These are just, of course, my own opinions, lol... pass the salt ;)


    ciao

    Rachel
  • I don't mind crit. I encourage it when it shows signs of skilled reading, as your crit does. However, I think we have a difference in auditory imagination and our images are determined to a degree by our climates, ideological and meterological.

    I don't live in a desert, so pavements that are crack-dusted and sunbeige are unnatural and worthy of note. "Bust" sounds like American slang and not appropriate to the diction of the piece. Plus my poem's about rain, so there is no other word for rain than rain in this context. You can rain down a night of war metaphorically, but can you bust down a night of war? That doesn't make sense to me without some stretch of the imagination, and it doesn't fit the theme of the poem.

    I don't see rain as gentle here. In "King Lear" the word is used repeatedly to evoke hellish torrents.

    I stretch language these days because I want it to hurt the reader a bit, to make them feel a bit uncomfortable.
  • DopeBeastieDopeBeastie Posts: 2,513
    lol... well... I didn't mean "bust", per se... (I stopped trying to write other people's stuff sometime last winter) just trying to get the image going in a more violent-sounding direction. my personal take on rain is just that... a gentle thing, perhaps it's due to all those soft consonants, you know? even "storm" ends too softly for my taste. could be that i'm an adrenalin addict, who knows...

    and you are right
    our sidewalks are quite dusty
    even my shoes are dusty
    i hosed off the car yesterday, preparing it for a new coat of dust

    fiber-liscious


    :)
  • DopeBeastieDopeBeastie Posts: 2,513
    oh... and i shall have to ponder this stretching to hurt the reader.

    i don't have all the words at my disposal, but I totally know what you mean.
  • Thanks again for your comments, Rachel. When I say, hurting the reader, I mean, hurting their expectations of form. I think I'm trying to create a tension between traditional form (and world views) and new ways of seeing, because I see how more experimental forms of writing often tend to get marginalized, or tolerated because they're "other" than dominant discourses. I think if you really want to shatter old modes of constructing the world, through poetry, you need to get inside language and subvert it from inside its most tried and tested structures. Otherwise you're left outside what Julia Kristeva calls the symbolic order of linguistic power.
  • DopeBeastieDopeBeastie Posts: 2,513
    oh gosh, sure, fins

    You know I'm no student of form. I do look for meaning and sound and cadence, (and maturity, and lack of cliche) and that's pretty much it. If I knew what forms you stretched, and were intimate with them, enough to recognize them, I could chuckle and rib and call you clever and all of that. But like I said some years ago. I'm a hayseed who likes getting into people's head through whatever it is they give me to work with. Helps me get into my own head, too.

    so yeah.

    i like this one.


    take care, you
  • You too, woman. :)
  • AliAli Posts: 2,621
    More than copper shadows, more than long
    tree leaf silhouettes upon the crack-
    dusted sunbeige pavement, now a throng
    of clouding black lays down upon the back
    of summer afternoons to rain the night
    of war upon our days of lust-made blight.

    And more than gutter shallows, thunder full
    and choking roads to nowhere, more than high
    burst pulsing river roars, a flood will cull
    us all, us hopeless waste, and bring on nigh
    death's sealing black glut water pulsing grave.
    No ark will come. No penitence will save.
    Very nice Finsbury...where you been hiding lately...with tony blair in Africa?
    A whisper and a thrill
    A whisper and a chill
    adv2005

    "Why do I bother?"
    The 11th Commandment.
    "Whatever"

    PETITION TO STOP THE BAN OF SMOKING IN BARS IN THE UNITED STATES....Anyone?
  • I've been around. :)
  • AliAli Posts: 2,621
    I've been around. :)
    It seems to me you've been deep entranced in the English Countryside.
    I miss your poems.
    This was a REALLLLLLY good one!:):):):):):):):):):)
    EXCELLENT vocabulary........:)
    A whisper and a thrill
    A whisper and a chill
    adv2005

    "Why do I bother?"
    The 11th Commandment.
    "Whatever"

    PETITION TO STOP THE BAN OF SMOKING IN BARS IN THE UNITED STATES....Anyone?
  • Ali wrote:
    It seems to me you've been deep entranced in the English Countryside.
    I miss your poems.
    This was a REALLLLLLY good one!:):):):):):):):):):)
    EXCELLENT vocabulary........:)

    I went the other week with my elder brother to Norfolk for the afternoon. We were right in the heart of the fens, a big flat part of the east of England that was all underwater until some very clever Dutch engineer drained it in the 1690s. The heart of the fens is this place called Denver - believe it or not - and there's this pub there called The Jenyn Arms. And the pub keeps just about the biggest turkey cock you ever saw. He came up to my knee, and at first I thought it was a little man at a Foghorn Leghorn convention. His legs were so big he looked like he was wearing baggy black trousers. And his plumage was like a Jefferson Airplane lightshow. You'd think he owned the place. And he had some belly on him. And his wife and kids were strutting around after him, coming up to check out the customers.

    I'm sure there's a poem in that vision, somewhere.
  • AliAli Posts: 2,621
    I went the other week with my elder brother to Norfolk for the afternoon. We were right in the heart of the fens, a big flat part of the east of England that was all underwater until some very clever Dutch engineer drained it in the 1690s. The heart of the fens is this place called Denver - believe it or not - and there's this pub there called The Jenyn Arms. And the pub keeps just about the biggest turkey cock you ever saw. He came up to my knee, and at first I thought it was a little man at a Foghorn Leghorn convention. His legs were so big he looked like he was wearing baggy black trousers. And his plumage was like a Jefferson Airplane lightshow. You'd think he owned the place. And he had some belly on him. And his wife and kids were strutting around after him, coming up to check out the customers.

    I'm sure there's a poem in that vision, somewhere.
    Amazing Finns...Good to see you had fun!Thats what its all about.
    I've been listening to so much catty crap going on lately...I need a decent camping trip!I was suppossed to go to the beach today,but wasnt feeling too chipper...I'd rather watch the presidential speech with mr. Blair and see whats going on.
    A whisper and a thrill
    A whisper and a chill
    adv2005

    "Why do I bother?"
    The 11th Commandment.
    "Whatever"

    PETITION TO STOP THE BAN OF SMOKING IN BARS IN THE UNITED STATES....Anyone?
  • Bush probably thinks Gee-ait is some place with lots of oil that Saddam once invaded.
  • her words are honey dapple breezes
    through a sunny birdwood tree
    breathing golden apple teases
    in a green dell, just for me
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,410
    her words are honey dapple breezes
    through a sunny birdwood tree
    breathing golden apple teases
    in a green dell, just for me

    I like this one! :)

    (I just noticed that you edited it. When did the poetry section change? )
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • justam wrote:
    I like this one! :)

    (I just noticed that you edited it. When did the poetry section change? )

    Around midnight, Seattle time, I believe! :)
  • justamjustam Posts: 21,410
    Around midnight, Seattle time, I believe! :)

    Yay!!! :D
    &&&&&&&&&&&&&&
  • grooveamaticgrooveamatic Posts: 1,374
    I'm with you on the rain thing, Fins. It depends on the usage, though. If I just say "It's raining", then of course this is an impotent, inert image. However, "raining down" is torrential and by design violent. It's marvelous in the poem.

    And "hurting the reader"? I'm following you. Line 11 is painful but brilliant. Hard to read, but full of rich dark rewards once deciphered.

    I sometimes wonder if you are an established poet who comes on here to test your stuff with us. You are quite good.

    btw....editing! I had forgotten what it was like!
    .........................................................................
  • Haha. Established poets don't listen to PJ. They listen to Benjamin Britten, wear cravats and take Aspergic interest in mid-Kentish archaeological digs.
  • grooveamaticgrooveamatic Posts: 1,374
    Haha. Established poets don't listen to PJ. They listen to Benjamin Britten, wear cravats and take Aspergic interest in mid-Kentish archaeological digs.

    Go tell that to Maya Angelou. ;)
    .........................................................................
  • Go tell that to Maya Angelou. ;)

    Ah, should have said "Establishment", then. ;)
  • grooveamaticgrooveamatic Posts: 1,374
    Fins, I dare say we are witty.
    .........................................................................
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    This is one of my favorite poems of yours, Mr. Carrots. I also like that one, if I remember correctly, was placed near the sea. I've tried more non-form poetry recently because when I reread my poetry that is my best, but my style of 2005 is the same as my style of 1995. So in non-form poetry I have not grown as a poet. It's disconcerting. I look at your poetry, and I almost crave the challenge to myself to get back to a 10x14 syllable form even though I didn't really like the result as much. Form for me by definition sounds forced, but it's more crafted. Thanks for the inspiration!
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • It's a challenge. But there's a magic in it. The Iliad's not in dactyllic hexameter for nothing; and Shakespeare used iambic pentameter to betwitch, curse, enrapture and construct the mindsets of future days. There's something in form that's more radical than free verse, something more dangerous, prayerlike, incantory, heartbeat-like, sexy, vivacious, and mysterious: if you can twist form inside out you get inside the mystery of things.
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