Need's a name and work.... about life and society

JesusTheTerrorist

Well... this is about self-evolution kind of. About.... a realisation.... well I hope it comes across in the poem without me having to explain it.
I need a better structure but I'm bad at that kind of stuff.

Please please criticise... creatively of course! And I would appreciate feedback on the words in brackets or with a dash.... Woudn't mind a name either!!!



Let it melt away, watch it fall by your feet
Smile as the world falls apart, silently
Only you can see it now, it's gone forever
Crawling from their ruins, the lies reach out to you
(But) You're untouchable now, you know the truth

You accidentally found your sight
Somebody showed you, now you can see (you were shown, now you can see)
Looking beyond the facade of life
You see it's meaning, it's so simple

Wondering how you believed those lies
How you didn't see before, (and) how they don't see now
You let those questions fall with the world
They don't even matter anymore

Rise above, fly away, over the ruins of your life
Laughing as you watch your former self
They're scrambling around picking up the pieces
Don't know what they're doing, don't see the point

You fought anyway, held on to those lies
But then you saw/caught a glimpse of truth
Let go of it all and left with nothing
Now you kow what it really means to see,
You're free

ISN

yay....I'm not banned....yippe hippie....heheheheheh!!!!!!

okay....here we go....first off, I like this poem very much.....the imagery is great......the ideas of resurrection and liberation.....if there need to be any changes......I'm not sure what they are.....so I'll read it again to see if I can offer any constructive advice.....

I played around with it a bit....let me know whether the changes are okay with you....

Let it melt away; watch it fall apart.
Smile as the world disintegrates, silently.
Only you can see it now - it's gone forever.
Crawling from their ruins, the lies reach out to you.
But you're untouchable now, you know the truth.

You accidentally found your sight.
You were shown, now you can see.
Looking beyond the facade of life,
you see its meaning (it's so simple).

Wondering how you believed those lies.
How you didn't see before. How they don't see now.
You let those questions fall away -
They've lost their relevance.

Rise high, fly over the ruins of your life,
laughing as you watch your former self.

They're scrambling around picking up the pieces.
They don't know what they're doing -
they don't understand

You fought anyway; held on to those lies
But then the truth was revealed
Unveiled, stark and bright.
Now you know what it really means to see;
You're free!

windedsailor

it's too personal. that is to say, it's yours. i can't make an honest critique without considering the source, which is you.

violet ray

oh it came across alright, loud and clear...
loved it.

windedsailor

Originally posted by violet ray
oh it came across alright, loud and clear...
loved it.

may i say, you're sweet.
i won't retract what i posted earlier, and there is a flow, and a spark there, but...

windedsailor

the colors are appropriate. i love that. it suits.

windedsailor

i'm way too over-critical, i think. who knows?

windedsailor

fucker.

windedsailor

"life and society"
what the fuck, man
you could do better.
i'm done.

violet ray

Originally posted by windedsailor
may i say, you're sweet.
i won't retract what i posted earlier, and there is a flow, and a spark there, but...

thank you

but i'm not...i'm in selfish mode. it seems i can twist any of my interps to make so many of the poems in this forum relate to me and what i know/have seen

either that or too many of us here are alike in our experiences.

windedsailor

Originally posted by violet ray
thank you

but i'm not...i'm in selfish mode. it seems i can twist any of my interps to make so many of the poems in this forum relate to me and what i know/have seen

either that or too many of us here are alike in our experiences.

violet ray is the eel
she brings sensibility in bites
of plankton
in the hearts
of whales.

violet ray

Originally posted by windedsailor
violet ray is the eel
she brings sensibility in bites
of plankton
in the hearts
of whales.

hmm...

windedsailor

Originally posted by violet ray
hmm...

hmmm?

windedsailor

Originally posted by violet ray
hmm...

violet ray is the eel
she brings sensibility in bites
of plankton
in the hearts
of whales.


__________________

it's a good thing

Ms. Haiku

Hi, personally, i like stories in poetry. However, no matter what poetry I write I remember words of my friend from 11 years ago, Time and Place, Time and Place. It grounds any poem. Where, what, when, is something to think about when writing Haiku, and I think it applies to any poem.

windedsailor

Originally posted by Bibliobella
Hi, personally, i like stories in poetry. However, no matter what poetry I write I remember words of my friend from 11 years ago, Time and Place, Time and Place. It grounds any poem. Where, what, when, is something to think about when writing Haiku, and I think it applies to any poem.

too many rules, but i like the colors

Ms. Haiku

Hi There! Maybe it sounded harsher than it really is. Here is an example from windedsailor's poem:


i'll take that dark road
stand on the highway
with my thumb out


just a little something that a reader can grab onto, possibly saw a picture of what is happening, possibly did it him or herself; a signpost of the poem. This is how I saw this portion of yeah, it is pearl jam. There's obviously more to the poem, but it was a signpost to me.

so, in this case, what happened before the:

crawling from their ruins

what was ruined?

windedsailor

Originally posted by Bibliobella
Hi There! Maybe it sounded harsher than it really is. Here is an example from windedsailor's poem:


i'll take that dark road
stand on the highway
with my thumb out


just a little something that a reader can grab onto, possibly saw a picture of what is happening, possibly did it him or herself; a signpost of the poem. This is how I saw this portion of yeah, it is pearl jam. There's obviously more to the poem, but it was a signpost to me.

so, in this case, what happened before the:

crawling from their ruins

what was ruined?

are you talking to me?

Ms. Haiku

Hello! I'm not really writing to anyone in particular, but JesusTheTerrorist. I used your poem as an example because it is a recently posted poem, so JesusTheTerrorist could read the entire poem and get an idea of what I was writing about. I hope you don't mind my using your poem as an example.

windedsailor

Originally posted by Bibliobella
Hello! I'm not really writing to anyone in particular, but JesusTheTerrorist. I used your poem as an example because it is a recently posted poem, so JesusTheTerrorist could read the entire poem and get an idea of what I was writing about. I hope you don't mind my using your poem as an example.

not at all. i'm a little slow this time of the morning. sorry.

violet ray

Originally posted by windedsailor
violet ray is the eel
she brings sensibility in bites
of plankton
in the hearts
of whales.


__________________

it's a good thing

couldn't tell,
thanks for clearing that up

FinsburyParkCarrots

Originally posted by Bibliobella
Hi, personally, i like stories in poetry. However, no matter what poetry I write I remember words of my friend from 11 years ago, Time and Place, Time and Place. It grounds any poem. Where, what, when, is something to think about when writing Haiku, and I think it applies to any poem.

This is an interesting point, Bibliobella. However, I might propose the following. I feel that the more extremely foregrounded the poetic function in the language of a text is, the less it is going to feature elements of story such as time or place. A narrative text that foregrounds "story" (i.e.: events [actions, happenings] and existents [historical and geographical setting and cast of characters]) will be concerned with external time and place. However a poem communicates not so much by what it says as how it says it. Poetic language is more self referential than prose writing: it communicates an impression or a feeling via its use of sound patternings more than its treatment of its subject matter. It uses "discourse" or effects a feeling or state of mind in its choice of linguistic devices such as rhyme, alliteration, assonance or repetition.

I feel that many of Shakespeare's sonnets, for examples of sublime poetic art, aren't as concerned with external as much as with psychological time and place (expressed via poetic devices such as the aformentioned, as well as imagery and metaphor).

I enjoy your thoughts, Bibliobella. Thank you.

Ms. Haiku

Hello! I was listening to Shakespeare's sonnets this weekend, oddly enough. I don't see an example of what you wrote in his sonnets. Could you just send along an example? Thank you!

FinsburyParkCarrots

Sure. I believe Sonnet 54 is a dialogue of self and soul, or physicality and thought. It uses metaphorical images of earth, sea and land to express an interior, emotional and psychological landscape in words. The "grounding" is within the consciousness of the speaker.

If the dull substance of my flesh were thought,
Injurious distance should not stop my way;
For then despite of space I would be brought,
From limits far remote, where thou dost stay.
No matter then although my foot did stand
Upon the farthest earth remov'd from thee;
For nimble thought can jump both sea and land,
As soon as think the place where he would be.
But, ah! thought kills me that I am not thought,
To leap large lengths of miles when thou art gone,
But that so much of earth and water wrought,
I must attend time's leisure with my moan;
Receiving nought by elements so slow
But heavy tears, badges of either's woe.

FinsburyParkCarrots

Here's another one, Sonnet 129. It's obviously about sex but again the grounding is in the interiority of the human.

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action: and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust;
Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight;
Past reason hunted; and no sooner had,
Past reason hated, as a swallowed bait,
On purpose laid to make the taker mad.
Mad in pursuit and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

Ms. Haiku

Well, still, with the first one, any traveller would get it by associating it with his/her own travels, which just by association with a person's life presents a visual picture. the "ah" that is the goal of haiku will be felt here because of the sharpness of the language. i'm still working on the second one, but I don't think it's as clean a poem as the first.

FinsburyParkCarrots

True, there is imagery of external landscape used in Sonnet 54, but I feel the speaker is deliberately explaining the process by which he imagines emotions as images of the natural world. The "natural world" of the poem is very much located within the speaker's own psychological sense of time and place rather than being an existent of "story". I suppose this device of Shakespeare's here is a forerunner of what John Ruskin would in 1856 call the "pathetic fallacy", or tendency of writers and artists to attribute to the natural world an interior human sensation or feeling.
Thanks. I enjoy your intelligent observations and opinions very much, Bibliobella. You raise this forum up a notch!

FinsburyParkCarrots

I thought I'd bump this up, for Jesus the Terrorist. Her thread got buried a bit here!

Ms. Haiku

I'll retract most of what I wrote earlier about Sonnet 54. First, I'll address Sonnet 129, though. I think out of the two poems, this is the one where the most important part of the poem is the language used. It creates an atmosphere not only by word meaning, but word sound, and the look of the word in the line. The harshness of the words creates a wall between the speaker and the reader, which makes complete sense, because why would Shakespeare want someone to identify with this speaker. The distance adds to the solitude of the speaker, who obviously has issues. "Enjoyed no sooner but despised straight," the reader speaks as if he didn't have a choice to engage, but it doesn't seem like the speaker takes responsibility. I don't think the point of this poem is how does this person view sex, but rather Shakespeare presented the attitude of someone, so extreme, not just someone who got gilted recently, but the words are so harsh, the attitude so negative, it's like the speaker is a ultra-conservative religious icon who uses his position to manipulate thousands.

Now, with Sonnet 54, the language is secondary to the imagery, but the imagery is secondary to a primary human instinct to live the impossible dream, and think it's possible until reality hits. The poem invites the reader to come along for the ride, and leap tall buildings in a single bound or be Don Quixote. The last 6 lines are just blah, poor guy sulking. It is a testament to Shakespeare's use of language that the reader's bubble is burst just like the speaker, though. Still, I think the connection with the reader is primary.

With this in mind, back to the original poem presented by JesusTheTerrorist, , , , Self-evolution is growing, yes?, and whether we want to or not we have to incorporate our experiences into our lives or suffer bad headaches. The speaker in the poem would want to connect with the reader. So, JesusTheTerrorist would want language to focus on what is it about self-evolution that can be understood by any reader. The language should not distance the reader.

FinsburyParkCarrots

I'm in agreement. I'll be back later. Got to carry on reading Joyce for a paper I'm working on!