The Official Friends of Ishmael Thread

The Sky I Scrape

Have any of you read Ishmael by Danial Quinn? I hope so, because I want to discuss.

For those of you who haven't yet read it, it's a book which can change how you think about everyday life. It makes the reader learn along with the character in the book about many of the subtle - and painfully obvious - things that are wrong with civilization that we overlook everyday, and how serious they really are. Our way of life is self-destructing at an ashtonishing rate, and everyday we fuel the fire that burns at our feet. Very soon we will be completly engulfed, and no medical or technological breakthrough can save us. Our civilization may be too far gone for us to save, but our species doesn't have to be.

Go read it, and come back for discussion. You'll be glad you did.

Long live the friends of Ishmael.

Alive Again

I recently read Ishmael and The Story of B and found them both very interesting. Daniel Quinn's perspective on how our civilisation has come about by exploiting and destroying our competition gave me a lot to think about. I can see how agriculture and technology have enabled us to grow exponentially to the detriment of the planet, but I'm not sure how we could modify our way of life to avert our own destruction. I think Quinn has given us a good theory as to why our lifestyle is wrong, but failed to offer a viable solution. It's a depressing thought, but perhaps we are destined to become extinct and allow the earth to heal itself after all.

The Sky I Scrape

I have an answer for you, believe it or not. Quinn published another book called Beyond Civilization. It is a collection of many mini-essays which tell many different approaches to how we can make a difference in everyday life by realizing certain things about ourselves and environment. It's the unofficial 4th book of the Ishmael series, beginning with Ishmael, then The Story of B, followed by My Ishmael. Beyond Civilization gets rid of the story behind the other ishmael books and tells readers almost exactly what to do to live like a leaver in todays modern world.

Alive Again

Thanks, I'll have to look for Beyond Civilization. What sort of things does he suggest? I plan to read the book, but others on here may be interested to know.

The Sky I Scrape

Well, I'll say a little something without giving anything big away.

One of the essays deals with understanding concepts, for instance, the concept of "saving the world". This obviously doesn't mean saving our physical planet, because it's a rock, right? This refers to saving the human habitat. We have to stop killing all the members in the community of life to accomplsih this, so it really has nothing to do with ceasing pollution and industry which is"poisoning" or planet. His essays send people in the right directions on accomplishing things.

Perhaps I was misleading when I said he tells us what to do, the book more or less narrows and concentrates our changing power on certain things of great impotance which NEED to be changed immediatly. He doesn't actually say "go here and do this..." but instead of as in Ishmael, bombarding us with problems, he offers much more hope in Beyond Civilization towards our survival as a species.

Alive Again

I remember him saying that we don't need programs (in other words, not isolated plans to repair the damage we're doing), but a complete change of heart. I'm looking forward to reading Beyond Civilization.

Just as an aside, I can't believe there's only two of us interested enough to discuss Daniel Quinn's ideas.

The Sky I Scrape

I'm blaming it on the fact that it's late. I noticed (obviously) that most people post at The Porch, so I shamelessly promoted this thread with not even a single reply. I'll bump it tomorrowish and see if anyone else is interested then. I'm glad you're going to read Beyond Civilization, I hope you enjoy it.

Now, so everyone else knows, it's better to read the three Ishmael books first so you don't jump into the middle of something you might not understand with Beyond Civilization. These books are deffinitly worth borrowing from your local library.

Alive Again

Can I get away with reading it without having read My Ishmael? Does My Ishmael go over any new ground not included in Ishmael and The Story of B?

The Sky I Scrape

Well, it would be prefered to read them in order, but what My Ishmael is basically about is a 12 year old girl who visits Ishmael in between his sessions with the central character in the first book. It really reveals a lot about Ishmaels present state, and Quinn seems to direct his energy towards our failing education system, believing it to only be a clamp to keep young people off the job market. I think Beyond Civilization might dip into a few My Ishmael ideas, but I suppose as long as you read My Ishmael eventually there'll be no harm done. Ishmael and Story of B are the real important parts.

BhagavadGita

Originally posted by Alive Again
I remember him saying that we don't need programs (in other words, not isolated plans to repair the damage we're doing), but a complete change of heart.

thank you ten club. always giving me cool stuff to read!!! have not read them, but be sure i will. all i can add is this:

im still for the simple idea of diverting war machine funds to build GIANT PEARL JAM SPACE SHUTTLES to take everyone last one of us up into BLOODY SPACE.

we will never see the world the same again and we will all get in great shape and eat astronaut food at the same time.

Heineken Helen

I know this is a really old thread.. but I read Ishmael over the weekend... and it's fantastic like others though, I was hoping for more solutions rather than problems, but I'm not sure anyone has any solutions... but I can't wait to read the rest of the books.

The one bit that gave me hope probably wasn't meant to... the bit where he says once man's gone, the earth can begin to repair itself... too true.