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Critics

celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
edited November 2008 in Other Music
It bugs me when EV publicly beats up on other bands.

I have a friend who is in a band and he is also a terrible/harsh critic. His band isn't even that good! It drives me crazy!

I am not a musician and maybe my glass is half full too many times but I have nothing but huge respect for all musicians, especially including ones that are "local indie", for lack of a better description. I just can't say anything negative. It's weird...

I am all for critiquing all music but people who say "they suck" are just pathetic.

My momma always told me to stfu if I didn't have anything good to say.


There, I said it.




Oh yeah...and I hate saying that top 100 lists suck, and especially, those "who is better" threads.

Turn me on.

Don't turn me off.
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Celebration, the ball's in play
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Jeremy1012Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    Criticism is fine so long as no one thinks for a second that it means anything. I write music reviews and my opinion is no more valid than anyone else's but there's nothing wrong with me writing it, mainly because I enjoy writing and I'm passionate and nerdy about music, nor is there anything wrong with people reading it to get an angle on a band. I don't like making sweeping statements like "so and so band fucking suck" but I thoroughly enjoy writing lengthy, scathing put downs if I've wasted my time on some band who are arrogant enough to presume people won't realise they're a bunch of hacks. I don't automatically respect someone because they're a musician. If you put your work out there, you have to expect someone to tell you what they think of you.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • YieldedYielded Posts: 839
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Criticism is fine so long as no one thinks for a second that it means anything. I write music reviews and my opinion is no more valid than anyone else's but there's nothing wrong with me writing it, mainly because I enjoy writing and I'm passionate and nerdy about music, nor is there anything wrong with people reading it to get an angle on a band. I don't like making sweeping statements like "so and so band fucking suck" but I thoroughly enjoy writing lengthy, scathing put downs if I've wasted my time on some band who are arrogant enough to presume people won't realise they're a bunch of hacks. I don't automatically respect someone because they're a musician. If you put your work out there, you have to expect someone to tell you what they think of you.

    Exactly. I'm a musician myself, and it's part of the job to accept that other people might not like your output. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be releasing stuff in the first place.
    "We get these pills to swallow... how they stick in your throat... Tastes like gold..."
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    So who exactly has EV picked on?

    Was it Creed?

    Cause if it was, who made EV king of what's good? Lottsa people love Creed, just as lottsa people love The Back Street Boys...and I can't say anything negative about either, even though I don't love those 2 bands. They are what they are. Other people like them and their opinions are as valid as mine. I wouldn't slag on Justin Timberlake or Chris Cornell...

    I suppose it comes down to how you offer up the critique. Taste, overall class and style win over "they suck" without unsupported comments attached.

    Who's a better guitar player...Hendrix or Clapton? Those threads are pointless

    as are top 100 lists...
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • Rhinocerous SurpriseRhinocerous Surprise Posts: 4,423
    celebration wrote:
    So who exactly has EV picked on?

    Was it Creed?

    Cause if it was, who made EV king of what's good? Lottsa people love Creed, just as lottsa people love The Back Street Boys...and I can't say anything negative about either, even though I don't love those 2 bands. They are what they are. Other people like them and their opinions are as valid as mine. I wouldn't slag on Justin Timberlake or Chris Cornell...

    I suppose it comes down to how you offer up the critique. Taste, overall class and style win over "they suck" without unsupported comments attached.

    Who's a better guitar player...Hendrix or Clapton? Those threads are pointless

    as are top 100 lists...
    It's less being "king of what's good", more having an opinion, and a platform.
    Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,430
    Critics are alot of times a joke, but there isn't much, aside from actually hearing the music, that makes me wanna go out and buy more than a thought out review.


    What has Nickelback, Creed, Blackstreet done to earn your respect. They can play instruments and sing? Do they/you respect somebody that is awesome at unclogging toilets. Relatively the same thing.

    My point is....... what have the shittier bands on the planet done, other than take a week to learn some open chords on guitar?

    EV/PJ is in an elite club. They are one of the greatest bands to roam the face of the earth. When they talk, people will listen.

    I disrespect alot of indie bands, b/c they usually blow.
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    DewieCox wrote:
    Critics are alot of times a joke, but there isn't much, aside from actually hearing the music, that makes me wanna go out and buy more than a thought out review.


    What has Nickelback, Creed, Blackstreet done to earn your respect. They can play instruments and sing? Do they/you respect somebody that is awesome at unclogging toilets. Relatively the same thing.

    My point is....... what have the shittier bands on the planet done, other than take a week to learn some open chords on guitar?

    EV/PJ is in an elite club. They are one of the greatest bands to roam the face of the earth. When they talk, people will listen.

    I disrespect alot of indie bands, b/c they usually blow.

    Critics are indeed a joke :)

    But who's comparing The Back Street Boys to PJ? I wasn't. I'm just saying that both bands offer their fans something personal, and of value, and if the Back Street Boys ain't your thing that's cool but I think it would be crazy to say that they don't offer value/merit to their target audience, same as Nickelback.

    I also don't listen to critics. I make my own decisions about what I like and take no stock in poor reviews, especially. Many times I have a read poor reviews, then listened to the album and then thought otherwise.

    Writing a song and playing guitar well vs a person uncloggin toilets is a bit extreme...art exists in music of all kinds. Plumbing is not art.

    I understand your stance about indie bands but Phish/MMJ had to start from somewhere...they both didn't bust out of the gate like PJ did. There just isn't enough support&patience with record companies today. Many artists of today did not show signs of value until after their first album. So I'm always looking for new local indie music in the hopes that one day MMJ(or?) will sell out MSG for NYE 2008/2009. I have nothing but respect for indie bands, whether I like them or not.
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,430
    celebration wrote:
    Writing a song and playing guitar well vs a person uncloggin toilets is a bit extreme...art exists in music of all kinds. Plumbing is not art.
    .

    Just b/c it's music(painting, movie, sculpture, etcetcetc) doesn't make it art. I would argue that Mr Cloggs, the neighborhood plumber is more artistic than alot of bands, on the radio.

    Learning how to sing, play guitar, drums, piano is a trade. Developing your own style of performing and writing what you feel(not what will make a buck) with said tools makes you an artist.


    There are some indie bands that are good, no doubt. The relative vast majority are not.
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:
    It's less being "king of what's good", more having an opinion, and a platform.

    yeah i keep reading this opinion/platform intertwined with EV threads...whether it's politics or bands that suck.

    maybe ev should talk/preach less from his podium...kinda like bob dylan, who says nothing at his shows, but rather, lets the music do the talking ;)
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    DewieCox wrote:
    Just b/c it's music(painting, movie, sculpture, etcetcetc) doesn't make it art. I would argue that Mr Cloggs, the neighborhood plumber is more artistic than alot of bands, on the radio.

    Learning how to sing, play guitar, drums, piano is a trade. Developing your own style of performing and writing with said tools makes you an artist.


    There are some indie bands that are good, no doubt. The relative vast majority are not.

    art is just so damn subjective...some people look at masterpiece classic era paintings and don't get it at all....and even some of the simply painted/styled art(andy warhol tomato soup can comes to mind) can be seen as a masterpieces.

    it's like people who hate some ames posters...who's to say they are right?

    everyone LOVES to be a critic and yet have no real knowledge of the work/talent that goes into putting a new Back Street Boys cd together. yes I said work&talent ;)
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • muppetmuppet Posts: 980
    Say what you want about Nickelback but everybody knows their songs. I'm not a huge fan but hey, most of their songs will inspire a much bigger reaction then some 10 minute guitar wank fest.

    Music criticism is good. It's pointless because there's no right or wrong in music but then we'd live in a boring world if we just resigned to that fact.
    everyone LOVES to be a critic and yet have no real knowledge of the work/talent that goes into putting a new Back Street Boys cd together. yes I said work&talent

    I dont know if you're joking or not but I agree with you. It's easy to dismiss boybands or throw away pop as 'inferior' or whatever. But people buy their songs. Sales aren't representative of quality (although how can you define quality?) but it means they've struck a chord with people.

    S Club 7 came on the other day on the radio in our class and everyone started singing along and doing the actions. Yes it was sad, and yes it may have been done in a 'post modern ironic way' or whatever, but if a simple song can inspire that kind of universal reaction, then it's done its job as far as I'm concerned.
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    muppet wrote:
    Say what you want about Nickelback but everybody knows their songs. I'm not a huge fan but hey, most of their songs will inspire a much bigger reaction then some 10 minute guitar wank fest.

    Music criticism is good. It's pointless because there's no right or wrong in music but then we'd live in a boring world if we just resigned to that fact.



    I dont know if you're joking or not but I agree with you. It's easy to dismiss boybands or throw away pop as 'inferior' or whatever. But people buy their songs. Sales aren't representative of quality (although how can you define quality?) but it means they've struck a chord with people.

    S Club 7 came on the other day on the radio in our class and everyone started singing along and doing the actions. Yes it was sad, and yes it may have been done in a 'post modern ironic way' or whatever, but if a simple song can inspire that kind of universal reaction, then it's done its job as far as I'm concerned.

    i right there with you :)

    i personally take no great stock in other people's opinions/criticisms...it's cool to discuss, but, "EV's band bashing" is rather lame...

    let love rule
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • Dismantle The SunDismantle The Sun Posts: 139
    As I say numerous times 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. And if EV wants to bash a band, that's his opinion. Criticism is an opinion, even if not many people agree with him. People just have to grow hard skin and let it all bounce off their back.
    If EV comes to my place and sees my collection he'll say WTF...

    In other words take what he says with a pinch of salt. Let him have his say, but most people have two ears - putting in and taking out.

    i love Indie bands - without them we'll be taken over by r&b crap.
    Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun - W.H. Auden
  • celebrationcelebration Posts: 318
    Dismantle The Sun wrote:
    As I say numerous times 'One man's meat is another man's poison'. And if EV wants to bash a band, that's his opinion. Criticism is an opinion, even if not many people agree with him. People just have to grow hard skin and let it all bounce off their back.
    If EV comes to my place and sees my collection he'll say WTF...

    In other words take what he says with a pinch of salt. Let him have his say, but most people have two ears - putting in and taking out.

    i love Indie bands - without them we'll be taken over by r&b crap.

    cool....an indie band fan! some of that local, up front, in your face music, is sometimes way better than being in a 20000 seat arena...even though sometimes the music might be a bit weaker(not as polished) than say um, the rolling stones or springsteen ;)

    the thing i find with indie music is you have to work a little harder to find the hidden beauty and part of that beauty is knowing that it can grow/develop into something magical next time you seen them. music is ever changing, especially as bands are progressing through time.

    i suppose i especially get down on musicians slaggin on other musicians...if anyone should know better it's a musician....afterall they know 1st hand the love, hard work, and dedication that goes into making art for other people. why slag on any of it?? if you don't like it just move on without comment...no need to be publicly critical about something that clearly tons of other people LOVE.

    politics is a completely different story...so im cool with ev slaggin on gw ;)
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    Celebration, the ball's in play
  • IgottagoIgottago Posts: 483
    Critics are necessary...the problem these days is you don't need a journalism degree to be one. You can just start a blog or go on a web forum. Making us all critics. Thats just annoying. A professional critic makes a career out of dissecting and analysing music, and thus builds and has the crudentials to do so. But some nerd who just bought an arcade fire CD and uses lengthy words and horrible poetry to describe it on a website can now be taken as seriously, which is wrong (cough..Pitchfork...cough).

    Everyone has a right to an opinion on music, but I do think there are those whose opinions should hold more weight.

    Some of my friends call me a music snob because I bash some of their music, but hey, I've spent lots of time and money looking for different forms of music, as well as playing music...they just listen to top40 radio and dowload (illegally) the occassional hit song...is their opinion on music as well-informed as mine? I don't think so. So fuck their tates and their opinions, I'm right.
  • Lanegan7Lanegan7 Posts: 124
    Everybody has a right to be a critic
  • Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    It's good to be critical, to be observant and to be opinionated.....it demonstrates thought and understanding....


    Yes bands like Creed and Nickelback are popular but then again so was Hitler.....being critical is about not accepting things at face value....
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • YieldedYielded Posts: 839
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    It's good to be critical, to be observant and to be opinionated.....it demonstrates thought and understanding....

    A thing that oh so many people lack. It's dismaying to see how many people get their 'opinions' served to them as bite-sized chunks to make it as digestible as possible, no thought required...
    "We get these pills to swallow... how they stick in your throat... Tastes like gold..."
  • muppetmuppet Posts: 980
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    It's good to be critical, to be observant and to be opinionated.....it demonstrates thought and understanding....


    Yes bands like Creed and Nickelback are popular but then again so was Hitler.....being critical is about not accepting things at face value....

    Pearl Jam is popular as well...
  • Cropduster84Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    muppet wrote:
    Pearl Jam is popular as well...


    That's kinda my point.....popularity doesn't make any artist above criticsim......
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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