Second Kings of Leon is kind of cheesy. They all sang in a choir at a Christian Academy and then pursued country music careers. Then they met some producer who had them do Rock and he cowrote most of their songs. That just seems lame to me, it's hard to take them seriously.
I have to agree. I like KOL's music ok, but I have to give the nod here to Ben Harper, simply because KOL is kind of hard to take seriously. The only thing I think they did on their own was come up with the band name. Their songs and even their image were supposedly the idea of a country music producer. At least with Ben you know its his stuff.
you want to talk cheesy, how about 'with my own two hands'? talk about high school idealistic wannabe revolutionary poetry. i can just picture the incense, stupid hats, patchouli, and bob marley posters in the dormroom playing that song.
Beavis: All my friends are brown and red? What does that mean?
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
Well, last week I had the chance to see two really good shows, but because I had to travel a few hours to see either one, and because of lack of funds, I could only pick one to go to- either Kings of Leon in Orlando, FL, on Halloween or Ben Harper in Jacksonville on 11-2. I decided to go with kOL and I think that I made the right choice. The show rocked and I had a great time.
What would you had picked?
Edit: I saw Ben open up for PJ at my first PJ show back in '96, but I had never seen KOL before.
The question is, now that you've seen both of them - who would you go see next time if you found yourself in the same situation?
according to allmusic, they wrote every song on their last 2 albums themselves. though it does seem their debut (their weakest cd btw) was co-written. because of the times is a more consistently brilliant album than any ben harper has ever produced. do you have proof that kol has never written a single tune themselves? even assuming your theory to be true, they are perfectly adept at playing the songs live and the albums are stronger top to bottom than ben's. for me, the fact that the music sounds good outweighs anything else. i give people no credit for writing crappy songs. nickelback writes their own crappy songs too. so did creed.
The question is, now that you've seen both of them - who would you go see next time if you found yourself in the same situation?
Damn good question. I guess since it's been about 11 years since I've seen Ben, I guess I'm going to have to go with Ben. Maybe I'll rotate them?
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1996: Ft Lauderdale
1998: Birmingham
2000: Charlotte, Tampa
2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
2004: Kissimmee
2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
2010: MSG2
2012: Music Midtown
2014: Memphis
2016: Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Jacksonville, JazzFest 2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1 2022: Nashville 2023: Ft. Worth II
according to allmusic, they wrote every song on their last 2 albums themselves. though it does seem their debut (their weakest cd btw) was co-written. because of the times is a more consistently brilliant album than any ben harper has ever produced. do you have proof that kol has never written a single tune themselves? even assuming your theory to be true, they are perfectly adept at playing the songs live and the albums are stronger top to bottom than ben's. for me, the fact that the music sounds good outweighs anything else. i give people no credit for writing crappy songs. nickelback writes their own crappy songs too. so did creed.
In no way am I saying that any band that writes their own material is good. Not at all. Knowing say a band like Pearl Jam that does write their own songs helps me take it more seriously and respect it more. Yes, tons of bands that write their own songs are horrible. I don't know too much about Kings of Leon I was just going by heresay and more power to them for writing their own stuff on the new albums. I don't hate them, I enjoyed them somewhat them at Lolla, they had my toes tapping through some songs (I wish I could have seen Iggy who was on at the same time but didn't want to lose my spot for MMJ and PJ) especially when Eddie came out. They just seem to be a little phony to me. They remind of all those bands like the vines, and the strokes, very image driven, I just never got into that scene. A producer gave them a certain style. It looks like they are just trying too hard to be rock n roll. Just not my thing. I like Ben's music a lot more. He is much more talented, which doesn't always mean better (I love a lot of 3 chord punk and other simpler styles). His music is much more diverse to me and he is being himself, definitely influenced by Bob Marley but does not sound identical at all. I agree his more recent stuff has not been as good but the old stuff for me is classic. Kings of Leon just aren't as sincere and as genuine for me to like them more than someone like Ben Harper.
I don't understand their comparisons to the Pixies. At least the Pixies were smart and wrote memorable songs. Sure they have a cool bassline or nifty guitar riff, but their songs just don't stick with me.
"Charmer" from the new record is pixies-esque. Sort of.
I won't vote because the comparison is arbitrary and really very strange. I love them both.
Their songs and even their image were supposedly the idea of a country music producer. At least with Ben you know its his stuff.
thats utter shit...
anyway Ben Harper is a poor mans reggae impersonator... and i fucking hate reggae almost as much as i hate jazz.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
anyway Ben Harper is a poor mans reggae impersonator... and i fucking hate reggae almost as much as i hate jazz.
I love the way he says 'supposedly'. He doesn't actually know, yet he's using it as a reason for disliking them.
Btw I'm proper into the new KOL album, need to hear their older stuff.
'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'
but why compare apples with oranges? it's senseless
Athens, Greece: 2006/09/30
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
In no way am I saying that any band that writes their own material is good. Not at all. Knowing say a band like Pearl Jam that does write their own songs helps me take it more seriously and respect it more. Yes, tons of bands that write their own songs are horrible. I don't know too much about Kings of Leon I was just going by heresay and more power to them for writing their own stuff on the new albums. I don't hate them, I enjoyed them somewhat them at Lolla, they had my toes tapping through some songs (I wish I could have seen Iggy who was on at the same time but didn't want to lose my spot for MMJ and PJ) especially when Eddie came out. They just seem to be a little phony to me. They remind of all those bands like the vines, and the strokes, very image driven, I just never got into that scene. A producer gave them a certain style. It looks like they are just trying too hard to be rock n roll. Just not my thing. I like Ben's music a lot more. He is much more talented, which doesn't always mean better (I love a lot of 3 chord punk and other simpler styles). His music is much more diverse to me and he is being himself, definitely influenced by Bob Marley but does not sound identical at all. I agree his more recent stuff has not been as good but the old stuff for me is classic. Kings of Leon just aren't as sincere and as genuine for me to like them more than someone like Ben Harper.
how do you evaluate sincerity and genuineness?
i never got the impression kol tried too hard at anything. i left their performance far more impressed with them than i had been by listening to the albums. they just get up their and do what they do. i don't know what image you speak of... as far as i know they don't really have a single hit to build an image off of. the strokes are awesome too, btw. punk blows
yeah, ben's old stuff can be pretty amazing. and i do admire his willingness to take risks and expand his sound. but it has, in itself, become his sound. it's not like he tried a reggae album or a soul album, which might be cool. it's like every album has "this is the song where ben does reggae." "this is the song where ben does gospel." and you end up with a series of very mediocre albums that do not flow well. he is still good live, but he hasn't really made any exciting music lately, and that is what counts in my book. kol last album is a textbook case of a band pushing their sound, moving forward, but still managing to capitalize on all their strengths. ben seems to have lost that touch and anymore i feel like listening to a ben album is like listening to a cover band.
"Charmer" from the new record is pixies-esque. Sort of.
I won't vote because the comparison is arbitrary and really very strange. I love them both.
yeah. i'd also say that is the only song that is pixies-esque. i didnt know they drew that comparison. but man, the first time i heard that song i was like "is that frank black guesting on the album?"
No, its not utter shit at all. Angelo Petraglia is responsible for much of their success, including influencing Caleb to go towards rock instead of country (and also then writing or co-writing most of their early songs).
I love the way he says 'supposedly'. He doesn't actually know, yet he's using it as a reason for disliking them.
Btw I'm proper into the new KOL album, need to hear their older stuff.
I live in Nashville, where KOL are based out of. This is not a band they came up through the Nashville club scene or anything like that. In fact, they have played more shows in London, than in Nashville. They are the result of clever marketing from a Nashville songwriter, thats it, its not a big secret.
Now in saying that, I do think their last album they became more independent with the songwriting, so Ill give credit where credit is due. But before that album, they had a puppet master pulling their strings.
No, its not utter shit at all. Angelo Petraglia is responsible for much of their success, including influencing Caleb to go towards rock instead of country (and also then writing or co-writing most of their early songs).
Thats fine, I think they are a bit fake, but to each their own. I wasnt trying to trash KOL, just givng my reasons why I think Harper is better. And one I do like him better, and two the fact that his success is based on him and not producers and songwriters, makes me respect him a bit more.
No, its not utter shit at all. Angelo Petraglia is responsible for much of their success, including influencing Caleb to go towards rock instead of country (and also then writing or co-writing most of their early songs).
so he is responsible for much of their success...
and then you go on to say that he 'influenced' Caleb into rock... even the greatest rock stars in the world have been influenced by others... its not original... Ben Harper is influenced by dung.
he has co-written less than half their total songs... thats a partial influence.. not MUCH of their success... you make it sound like they were in The Monkees.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
and then you go on to say that he 'influenced' Caleb into rock... even the greatest rock stars in the world have been influenced by others... its not original... Ben Harper is influenced by dung.
he has co-written less than half their total songs... thats a partial influence.. not MUCH of their success... you make it sound like they were in The Monkees.
When they started out they werent much past the monkees. Now they have taken more control of their music, but for their first several albums, the Monkees would be an apt comparison.
When they started out they werent much past the monkees. Now they have taken more control of their music, but for their first several albums, the Monkees would be an apt comparison.
first several albums? they have 3 and he co-wrote on one of them... the first and their weakest. their success is not based on producers or songwriters, it is based on them. it was their material over the last 2 albums that started getting attention.
the monkees eh? you don't think the beatles were told to wear matching suits? weren't half of their first 5 albums outright cover songs? you don't even know what role this dude's "influence" took aside from him pushing them away from country and into rock. they were all of... 16? 17? at the time? they probably needed the direction lest they wound up like poor hanson... a talented group of kids who became a punchline due to poor management.
first several albums? they have 3 and he co-wrote on one of them... the first and their weakest. their success is not based on producers or songwriters, it is based on them. it was their material over the last 2 albums that started getting attention.
the monkees eh? you don't think the beatles were told to wear matching suits? weren't half of their first 5 albums outright cover songs? you don't even know what role this dude's "influence" took aside from him pushing them away from country and into rock. they were all of... 16? 17? at the time? they probably needed the direction lest they wound up like poor hanson... a talented group of kids who became a punchline due to poor management.
We will agree to disagree. From articles and stuff I have read this band would be selling groceries if not for their writers and marketing teams. A guy liked Caleb's appearance, changed his clothes, his genre, told him to get a band, and wrote songs for them, and then marketed them to Europe because he thought the southern image would catch on quicker over there than here. But regardless, I like their music ok, I dont think its anything earth shattering, but its pretty good. But I do think Harper is much more talented than KOL, and Ill leave it at that.
We will agree to disagree. From articles and stuff I have read this band would be selling groceries if not for their writers and marketing teams. A guy liked Caleb's appearance, changed his clothes, his genre, told him to get a band, and wrote songs for them, and then marketed them to Europe because he thought the southern image would catch on quicker over there than here. But regardless, I like their music ok, I dont think its anything earth shattering, but its pretty good. But I do think Harper is much more talented than KOL, and Ill leave it at that.
i'd say he's more talented too, but that doesn't mean his music is better.
i'm dying to know what articles you've read that tell this story. it's pretty far fetched to me. he thought he was cute so he invented kings of leon? come on... caleb looks like any southern emo kid in existence... nobody would look at him and say "let's build a band around that hottie!"
i'd say he's more talented too, but that doesn't mean his music is better.
i'm dying to know what articles you've read that tell this story. it's pretty far fetched to me. he thought he was cute so he invented kings of leon? come on... caleb looks like any southern emo kid in existence... nobody would look at him and say "let's build a band around that hottie!"
Thats exactly what happened. He went to auditions for producers to try and start a country music career. One of the producers liked his looks, and decided he would could turn him into a rock star. That is a fact. Caleb had a record contract for his rock band, before that band even existed.
Thats exactly what happened. He went to auditions for producers to try and start a country music career. One of the producers liked his looks, and decided he would could turn him into a rock star. That is a fact. Caleb had a record contract for his rock band, before that band even existed.
you got articles for this?
"Comprised of three Followill brothers -- Caleb (guitar), Nathan (drums), and Jared (bass) -- as well as first cousin Matthew Followill (guitar), Kings of Leon formed in 2000. When their father resigned from the church and divorced his wife in 1997, the boys relocated to Nashville and embraced the rock music (not to mention the accompanying lifestyle) they'd previously been denied. Cousin Matthew was added to the lineup, and a Southern garage rock sound quickly emerged. RCA took note, signing the band in 2001 and facilitating a partnership with Nashville-based producer Angelo Petraglia, who furthered the band's rock & roll education and co-wrote the material for 2003's Holy Roller Novocaine EP." -allmusic
sounds like the band was formed before they signed and the record company hooked them up with a producer who could develop their talents.
"Comprised of three Followill brothers -- Caleb (guitar), Nathan (drums), and Jared (bass) -- as well as first cousin Matthew Followill (guitar), Kings of Leon formed in 2000. When their father resigned from the church and divorced his wife in 1997, the boys relocated to Nashville and embraced the rock music (not to mention the accompanying lifestyle) they'd previously been denied. Cousin Matthew was added to the lineup, and a Southern garage rock sound quickly emerged. RCA took note, signing the band in 2001 and facilitating a partnership with Nashville-based producer Angelo Petraglia, who furthered the band's rock & roll education and co-wrote the material for 2003's Holy Roller Novocaine EP." -allmusic
sounds like the band was formed before they signed and the record company hooked them up with a producer who could develop their talents.
Thats more or less a blog, so take what you will of it. There was an article in the Tennessean (the local nashville paper) a few years ago pretty much saying the same thing. I couldnt find it, so Ill give you that link for now, but Ill try to find the Tennessean article.
Thats more or less a blog, so take what you will of it. There was an article in the Tennessean (the local nashville paper) a few years ago pretty much saying the same thing. I couldnt find it, so Ill give you that link for now, but Ill try to find the Tennessean article.
he says "i have a friend whose band is signed in the music industry" and that is the basis for his claims? that and a cursory reading of the liner notes? sounds like his friend is jealous that his band didn't take off and the label put their best people on kings of leon instead.
Comments
I have to agree. I like KOL's music ok, but I have to give the nod here to Ben Harper, simply because KOL is kind of hard to take seriously. The only thing I think they did on their own was come up with the band name. Their songs and even their image were supposedly the idea of a country music producer. At least with Ben you know its his stuff.
At least Ben writes his own material.
Butthead: It means that his friends are like turds and that they like suck.
Beavis: Heh heh. Oh yeah. Yeah! Get those spoons out of my face before I shove them up your butt!
Butthead: Huh huh.
The question is, now that you've seen both of them - who would you go see next time if you found yourself in the same situation?
according to allmusic, they wrote every song on their last 2 albums themselves. though it does seem their debut (their weakest cd btw) was co-written. because of the times is a more consistently brilliant album than any ben harper has ever produced. do you have proof that kol has never written a single tune themselves? even assuming your theory to be true, they are perfectly adept at playing the songs live and the albums are stronger top to bottom than ben's. for me, the fact that the music sounds good outweighs anything else. i give people no credit for writing crappy songs. nickelback writes their own crappy songs too. so did creed.
1996: Ft Lauderdale
1998: Birmingham
2000: Charlotte, Tampa
2003: Tampa, Atlanta, Phoenix
2004: Kissimmee
2008: West Palm Beach, Bonnaroo, Columbia
2010: MSG2
2012: Music Midtown
2014: Memphis
2018: Wrigley 1, Fenway 1
2022: Nashville
2023: Ft. Worth II
In no way am I saying that any band that writes their own material is good. Not at all. Knowing say a band like Pearl Jam that does write their own songs helps me take it more seriously and respect it more. Yes, tons of bands that write their own songs are horrible. I don't know too much about Kings of Leon I was just going by heresay and more power to them for writing their own stuff on the new albums. I don't hate them, I enjoyed them somewhat them at Lolla, they had my toes tapping through some songs (I wish I could have seen Iggy who was on at the same time but didn't want to lose my spot for MMJ and PJ) especially when Eddie came out. They just seem to be a little phony to me. They remind of all those bands like the vines, and the strokes, very image driven, I just never got into that scene. A producer gave them a certain style. It looks like they are just trying too hard to be rock n roll. Just not my thing. I like Ben's music a lot more. He is much more talented, which doesn't always mean better (I love a lot of 3 chord punk and other simpler styles). His music is much more diverse to me and he is being himself, definitely influenced by Bob Marley but does not sound identical at all. I agree his more recent stuff has not been as good but the old stuff for me is classic. Kings of Leon just aren't as sincere and as genuine for me to like them more than someone like Ben Harper.
I won't vote because the comparison is arbitrary and really very strange. I love them both.
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Oh my, they dropped the leash.
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I agree. BHIC are the shit
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thats utter shit...
anyway Ben Harper is a poor mans reggae impersonator... and i fucking hate reggae almost as much as i hate jazz.
I love the way he says 'supposedly'. He doesn't actually know, yet he's using it as a reason for disliking them.
Btw I'm proper into the new KOL album, need to hear their older stuff.
- the great Sir Leo Harrison
but why compare apples with oranges? it's senseless
"Call me Ishmael. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me on shore, I thought I would sail about a little and see the watery part of the world." Herman Melville : Moby Dick
how do you evaluate sincerity and genuineness?
i never got the impression kol tried too hard at anything. i left their performance far more impressed with them than i had been by listening to the albums. they just get up their and do what they do. i don't know what image you speak of... as far as i know they don't really have a single hit to build an image off of. the strokes are awesome too, btw. punk blows
yeah, ben's old stuff can be pretty amazing. and i do admire his willingness to take risks and expand his sound. but it has, in itself, become his sound. it's not like he tried a reggae album or a soul album, which might be cool. it's like every album has "this is the song where ben does reggae." "this is the song where ben does gospel." and you end up with a series of very mediocre albums that do not flow well. he is still good live, but he hasn't really made any exciting music lately, and that is what counts in my book. kol last album is a textbook case of a band pushing their sound, moving forward, but still managing to capitalize on all their strengths. ben seems to have lost that touch and anymore i feel like listening to a ben album is like listening to a cover band.
yeah. i'd also say that is the only song that is pixies-esque. i didnt know they drew that comparison. but man, the first time i heard that song i was like "is that frank black guesting on the album?"
it's different. it's good, but don't expect it to sound the same. their new album is amazing.
No, its not utter shit at all. Angelo Petraglia is responsible for much of their success, including influencing Caleb to go towards rock instead of country (and also then writing or co-writing most of their early songs).
I live in Nashville, where KOL are based out of. This is not a band they came up through the Nashville club scene or anything like that. In fact, they have played more shows in London, than in Nashville. They are the result of clever marketing from a Nashville songwriter, thats it, its not a big secret.
Now in saying that, I do think their last album they became more independent with the songwriting, so Ill give credit where credit is due. But before that album, they had a puppet master pulling their strings.
i think that's a good thing.
Thats fine, I think they are a bit fake, but to each their own. I wasnt trying to trash KOL, just givng my reasons why I think Harper is better. And one I do like him better, and two the fact that his success is based on him and not producers and songwriters, makes me respect him a bit more.
so he is responsible for much of their success...
and then you go on to say that he 'influenced' Caleb into rock... even the greatest rock stars in the world have been influenced by others... its not original... Ben Harper is influenced by dung.
he has co-written less than half their total songs... thats a partial influence.. not MUCH of their success... you make it sound like they were in The Monkees.
When they started out they werent much past the monkees. Now they have taken more control of their music, but for their first several albums, the Monkees would be an apt comparison.
first several albums? they have 3 and he co-wrote on one of them... the first and their weakest. their success is not based on producers or songwriters, it is based on them. it was their material over the last 2 albums that started getting attention.
the monkees eh? you don't think the beatles were told to wear matching suits? weren't half of their first 5 albums outright cover songs? you don't even know what role this dude's "influence" took aside from him pushing them away from country and into rock. they were all of... 16? 17? at the time? they probably needed the direction lest they wound up like poor hanson... a talented group of kids who became a punchline due to poor management.
We will agree to disagree. From articles and stuff I have read this band would be selling groceries if not for their writers and marketing teams. A guy liked Caleb's appearance, changed his clothes, his genre, told him to get a band, and wrote songs for them, and then marketed them to Europe because he thought the southern image would catch on quicker over there than here. But regardless, I like their music ok, I dont think its anything earth shattering, but its pretty good. But I do think Harper is much more talented than KOL, and Ill leave it at that.
i'd say he's more talented too, but that doesn't mean his music is better.
i'm dying to know what articles you've read that tell this story. it's pretty far fetched to me. he thought he was cute so he invented kings of leon? come on... caleb looks like any southern emo kid in existence... nobody would look at him and say "let's build a band around that hottie!"
Thats exactly what happened. He went to auditions for producers to try and start a country music career. One of the producers liked his looks, and decided he would could turn him into a rock star. That is a fact. Caleb had a record contract for his rock band, before that band even existed.
you got articles for this?
"Comprised of three Followill brothers -- Caleb (guitar), Nathan (drums), and Jared (bass) -- as well as first cousin Matthew Followill (guitar), Kings of Leon formed in 2000. When their father resigned from the church and divorced his wife in 1997, the boys relocated to Nashville and embraced the rock music (not to mention the accompanying lifestyle) they'd previously been denied. Cousin Matthew was added to the lineup, and a Southern garage rock sound quickly emerged. RCA took note, signing the band in 2001 and facilitating a partnership with Nashville-based producer Angelo Petraglia, who furthered the band's rock & roll education and co-wrote the material for 2003's Holy Roller Novocaine EP." -allmusic
sounds like the band was formed before they signed and the record company hooked them up with a producer who could develop their talents.
http://www.jackfeenyreviews.com/kings.htm
Thats more or less a blog, so take what you will of it. There was an article in the Tennessean (the local nashville paper) a few years ago pretty much saying the same thing. I couldnt find it, so Ill give you that link for now, but Ill try to find the Tennessean article.
he says "i have a friend whose band is signed in the music industry" and that is the basis for his claims? that and a cursory reading of the liner notes? sounds like his friend is jealous that his band didn't take off and the label put their best people on kings of leon instead.