Can bad production ruin an otherwise decent record?

2

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  • transplant
    transplant Posts: 1,088
    muppet wrote:
    So does anyone really pay attention to how an album is produced or mixed? Does it hamper the 'experience' for you or can the actual music itself transcend it?
    I don't pay attention unless it is extremely bad (St. Anger-like). Plenty of my favorite CD's are those from the SST early-mid 80's days. I honestly feel like the production is a reason why people don't put Husker Du on the highest pedestal possible.

    I can't wait for the day a kind soul seeks out all SST releases produced by SPOT and pulls a remaster.
  • fada
    fada Posts: 1,032
    What do people think of "Long Long Long" on the white album. Was it produced at a way too low volume level?
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 11,175
    if you want to hear shitty production listen to the last Thursday record.
  • Brian V.
    Brian V. Posts: 51
    I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates the production of Californication. I think even though the songs are great, it's one of my least listened to RHCP cds.
  • Joah
    Joah Posts: 18
    I hope this isn't against the rules, but you can download the unmastered version of Californication here.
    My band, Red Stone of Faith (http://www.myspace.com/redstoneoffaith).
  • Brian V.
    Brian V. Posts: 51
    As soon as I saw that mentioned I looked it up.. it is definitely a big improvement.

    Emit Remmus is listenable now!
  • Blind Melon
    Blind Melon Posts: 911
    This is a major problem with most of the White Stripes' records... maybe they're going for the "old" sound recording style... but most of their albums sound as if they record the album in a shoebox; it's just downright terrible. There's always like crackling on the albums since they have the treble too high or the bass too high, or whatev... it's just not good. This is what kills most of the WS albums... especially Get Behind Me Satan and the new one.
    If I could, think I would give in.
  • Blind Melon
    Blind Melon Posts: 911
    Also, this is what kills most of the older bands albums for me... like the Rolling Stones, Beatles, Led Zeppelin, etc... it's just because of the technology they used back then, which sounded good back then... but in this day and age, it sucks hard.
    If I could, think I would give in.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Take most Dylan material between in 1978 and 1997, and there's your answer.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    fada wrote:
    What do people think of "Long Long Long" on the white album. Was it produced at a way too low volume level?

    Nah, your ears are still ringing after "Helter Skelter". ;)
  • fada
    fada Posts: 1,032
    I telling you one has to turn up the volume a tone just to hear the song
  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    JWBusher wrote:
    The probelm with the Springsteen and Pumpkins albums is not necessarily the production, but the way that they were mastered & prepared for CD. They're very, very compressed, loud and trebly, which is sadly the standard these days. The new Paul McCartney and Red Hot Chili Peppers are some of the worst examples of this. A lot of record labels and artists deliberately do bad mastering work because they think that's what people want to hear. It's called the "loudness wars" and there have been countless articles and even youtube videos about it. That's why I buy a lot of new albums on vinyl (and even they can be mastered badly).


    I'm so glad you said this. It is a fucking disgrace to music everywhere that this is going on.

    For those who maybe want to know more, an article that was written up around 2001 and is still relevant today on this can be found here:

    http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

    If you don't feel like reading all that there is a very quick and to the point video that explains this stuff linked at the bottom of the article in the link above. It is the hyperlink titled "A Short Video About Loud CDs".

    Also, it should be noted that the trend in country music is kind of the opposite. At least it was a couple years ago as I don't make it a point to listen to that kind of music, but when I'm in the car with my mom, that's what we listen to. Anyway, she put in a relatively new CD and I was instantly amazed at how much depth there was and how organic everything felt.
  • elmer
    elmer Posts: 1,683
    well.......one album I for sure feel was ruined by pruduction levels was Rid of Me, PJ Harvey. Steve Albini is lauded at times but I fail to hear why, too low,then too loud, always too tinny.
  • soclose
    soclose Posts: 629
    elmer wrote:
    well.......one album I for sure feel was ruined by pruduction levels was Rid of Me, PJ Harvey. Steve Albini is lauded at times but I fail to hear why, too low,then too loud, always too tinny.

    I don't claim to know much about production, but I've always thought the bad sound on this album was part of it's charm. Maybe I'm just easily pleased, but I always figured it was supposed to sound like crap! You do need to turn the volume up pretty high to listen to that album, but it's never bothered me. I just make sure not to allow those songs to shuffle with my other music!

    I also remember reading complaints about the production on Tori Amos' Little Earthquakes on another message board. Again, I can see what people are saying, but it just wouldn't be the same with a more modern sound, in my opinion.
  • Cropduster84
    Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    Sludge Factory wrote:
    I'm so glad you said this. It is a fucking disgrace to music everywhere that this is going on.

    For those who maybe want to know more, an article that was written up around 2001 and is still relevant today on this can be found here:

    http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

    If you don't feel like reading all that there is a very quick and to the point video that explains this stuff linked at the bottom of the article in the link above. It is the hyperlink titled "A Short Video About Loud CDs".

    Also, it should be noted that the trend in country music is kind of the opposite. At least it was a couple years ago as I don't make it a point to listen to that kind of music, but when I'm in the car with my mom, that's what we listen to. Anyway, she put in a relatively new CD and I was instantly amazed at how much depth there was and how organic everything felt.


    Good post and great links, cheers.


    It becomes very evident how music is being ruined.....

    Magic by Springsteen sounds worse each time I hear it....a shame.....
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • elmer
    elmer Posts: 1,683
    soclose wrote:
    I don't claim to know much about production, but I've always thought the bad sound on this album was part of it's charm. Maybe I'm just easily pleased, but I always figured it was supposed to sound like crap! You do need to turn the volume up pretty high to listen to that album, but it's never bothered me. I just make sure not to allow those songs to shuffle with my other music!
    but most of the songs are on her 4-Track Demo's cd where they sound beat-up, distorted, she sounds like a true psychotic banshee. On the album proper I find it much harder to feel the songs, the silent moments just irk.
  • Flagg
    Flagg Posts: 5,856
    Metallica's And Justice For All comes to mind when I think about a good album with bad production. Did Jason even play bass on that one? Can't hear it.
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  • Sludge Factory
    Sludge Factory Posts: 976
    Cropduster84 wrote:
    Good post and great links, cheers.


    It becomes very evident how music is being ruined.....

    Magic by Springsteen sounds worse each time I hear it....a shame.....


    Thanks. It is a shame, indeed. I can hardly listen to Pearl Jam's newest album anymore because of this. I LOVE the songs, but when I try to listen to them I get a headache. If you wanna hear a REALLY good example of a well done CD, I'd suggest Tad's "Inhaler" or "Infrared Riding Hood". Those albums are so raw and heavy, yet sound unbelievably awesome! I guess another album that I've been listening to alot lately that sounds really good too would be the Melvin's "Houdini".
  • Cropduster84
    Cropduster84 Posts: 1,283
    Sludge Factory wrote:
    Thanks. It is a shame, indeed. I can hardly listen to Pearl Jam's newest album anymore because of this. I LOVE the songs, but when I try to listen to them I get a headache. If you wanna hear a REALLY good example of a well done CD, I'd suggest Tad's "Inhaler" or "Infrared Riding Hood". Those albums are so raw and heavy, yet sound unbelievable awesome! I guess another album that I've been listening to alot lately that sounds really good too would be the Melvin's "Houdini".


    Thank you for the recommendations, I'll definately check them out.

    Im with you on Avacado too, such a badly produced album...
    'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
  • facepollution
    facepollution Posts: 6,834
    Just a thought, but whenever I read interviews with rock bands about their new albums, they're forever saying that they want to replicate how they sound on stage, on record. Nearly every show I ever go to is typically way too loud to the point of distortion, dropping the volume a little would allow a lot more clarity of sound. For some reason people think they can't enjoy a show unless they are totally consumed by the music which means ridiculous volumes that are ultimately damaging people's hearing. I would far rather have the volume turned down, but be able to hear the singer's voice perfectly or for an amazing guitar solo to be audible. So if these bands are intent on 'capturing' that live wall of sound, it's no wonder so many records sound so sanitised.

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