Billy Corgan/Axl Rose observation
DCGARDEN
Posts: 515
Isn't Corgan going around singing under the Pumpkins name a little similar to what Axl is doing with GNR?
Differences , for sure, but in the end, you've got the Lead singer, not the real original band. I think ( correct me if I'm wrong) Corgan has one other original member there, but that's still 1/2 of the original band.
When Axl Rose started going around with his new group of musicians, only Slash and Duff still remained from the originals at that point.
I don't know, it seems Axl gets slammed ( probably because he's an asshole) for doing it , but Corgan does not?
Interested in your opinions :
For the record, I'm cool with both : I mean I hear Corgan I think Pumpkins, I hear Axl I think Gnr...........And probably always will
Differences , for sure, but in the end, you've got the Lead singer, not the real original band. I think ( correct me if I'm wrong) Corgan has one other original member there, but that's still 1/2 of the original band.
When Axl Rose started going around with his new group of musicians, only Slash and Duff still remained from the originals at that point.
I don't know, it seems Axl gets slammed ( probably because he's an asshole) for doing it , but Corgan does not?
Interested in your opinions :
For the record, I'm cool with both : I mean I hear Corgan I think Pumpkins, I hear Axl I think Gnr...........And probably always will
I'll keep taking punches
Untill their will grows tired
Untill their will grows tired
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
Corgan, while I find to be very pretentious and a tyrant himself to a point, was THE chief songwriter of his band. if you look at the liner notes, he wrote pretty much all the words and music to all their songs. while I still much prefer to have Iha and D'arcy in the group, it's still much more SP than GnR is. GnR without Slash and Duff is NOT GnR, and Axl shouldn't kid himself about that. also, Izzy Stradlin was a hell of a songwriter too and the quality of the music was clearly different after he left.
but I agree that both bands seem to be one of those bands where the individual members hate each other. SP were pretty much on the verge of breaking up before they ever made it famous.
Corgan wrote almost everything, where Axl had a hand in most things, but didn't do it all.
So what songs released after Izzy left do you think show your theory that the quality was different? I'm interested as GNR, the Axl-Slash-Duff era, didn't release any new music after Izzy left.
It's ironic that people now say its not GNR if Duff isn't there, he was the fourth most important songwriter in the band and not a good singer. So unless you really like hearing him do Attitude live he is easily replaceable.
Don't forget that Corgan played a lot of songs with just him and Jimmy, which he has and it was just the two of them on Zeitgeist anyway.
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
I think the case could be made that Corgan gets off easier because he was in fact the brains and the main songwriter.
Axl & Slash were definitely pretty equal in that department, so the point does make sense.
But no matter how much of a dickhead Axl is, you cannot deny that you could get some talented musicians to play Slash & Duff's parts on stage and with the exception of some of Slash's solos, you would not be let down, whereas you cannot, I don't care what you say, what you do, or how much of an asshole he is, NO ONE can duplicate that fucking voice that Axl brings
Untill their will grows tired
you are right, Izzy was there on the UYI albums. I thought he left before they were made. however, I imagine he, like the other members (other than Axl), mostly hate those 2 albums. songwriting is a big thing, but it's not just that. it's the style that changes. GnR is as much or more about Slash/Izzy/Duff's style of playing as it is about Axl's singing. I feel that GnR is not GnR without Axl/Slash/Izzy/Duff. they could feasibly get by without Duff and possibly without Izzy, but not without Slash.
it's not the same with SP. SP is pretty much Corgan. like somebody else pointed out, Corgan actually played most of the instruments on several of their albums. is this a good thing from a "band" standpoint? not really, because it probably caused a lot of bad blood in the band. but SP is Corgan's band, and the end of the day, it's about Corgan. but GnR is more than just Axl.
Plus, a Top Hat is WAYYYYYY cooler than a KFC bucket.
I'm a little confused... when did Axl go around with new musicians... AND Slash and Duff? I'm pretty sure when Axl started up the new lineup Slash, Duff, and Matt were no where near that project.
I think the 'original' new lineup consisted of Robin Finck and Buckethead on guitars, Brain from Primus on drums, and Tommy Stinson on bass... with Dizzy Reed being the only remaining GNR member besides Axl.
No,no, I did not make myself clear.I'm sorry about that. What I meant was that "at the time" Axl started going around with the new musicians, Slash & Duff had left the band already.
Untill their will grows tired
originally, Steven Adler was fired and replaced with the drummer from I think The Cult (I don't remember his name, sorry, and it may not have even been the cult).
after that, Izzy left and Gilby Clark came in and they added someone else too, maybe a fulltime keyboard player? this was probably when the poster referred to Slash/Duff still going around with Axl and all the new people.
then, Slash/Duff finally left. now I love the Replacements, but I don't see Tommy Stinson being in GnR. and Buckethead is a tremendous guitarist, but he's more his own show than fitting into GnR. they aren't GnR without Slash.
The guy from the cult was Matt Sorum, and the keyboardist was Dizzy Reed.. who were both on Use Your Illusion, which was definitely not the "new" lineup.
okay... makes more sense now.
well, there have been several "new" lineups. but the current lineup, I don't think Slash and Duff actually ever played with.
Although Appetite has my fav song by them, Rocket Queen, I'd say the Illusions have the majority of my favorite GNR songs, Locomotive, Coma, Estranged, Breakdown, Don't Damn Me, Dust N Bones, etc. I don't think they hate those albums at all, I think they may just not like how the band fell apart during that time and those songs bring back bad memories but the songs are mostly great.
As for style changes, its true but Lies was also different than every other GNR album and I think they even said back then that they wanted to do that and not just do the same album over and over.
Billy Corgan is the John Fogerty of the Smashing Pumpkins. I always saw the Chinese guitar player and chick bassist as novelty members of the Smashing Pumpkins. Billy and Jimmy played all the shit on "Siamese Dreams" so they've earned the right to play under the name in my opinion.
I think probably it's just Axl's attitude that winds people up.
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
Rockin' out to Creadles
Slash is a lead guitarist. lead guitarists don't usually get the songwriting credits that other songwriters get. why? because they come in and do the solos on the songs that have already been written and arranged. like on Ten, those were all Mike McCready's solos, but he got almost none of the writing credits. same for Slash, those are HIS solos so no, he's more than a "glorified version" of anything. same with Kirk Hammett from Metallica. Hetfield and Ulrich get most of the song writing credits, but Hammet's solos are just as memorable.
For example, Hurt by Johnny Cash moves me far more than the NIN version even though Trent wrote it.
14/09/06, 16/09/06, 17/09/06, 19/09/06, 20/09/06 ~ The Stone lookalike leg of the 2006 tour
18/06/07 - Amazing, just amazing
04/07/06 ~Proud to be part of the AIC Astoria Crew~
Rockin' out to Creadles
I'm buying Rolling Stone for that cover
Example, A Perfect Circle covering Imagine. It makes the song sarcastic and dark, opposed to what John Lennon was trying to do. I like Lennon's version much better, but that was just an example of how people hear songs in different ways.
Fucking Cool! Should be an interesting read - I wonder if they'll talk about Chinese Democracy or Velvet Revolver much - I don't see how they CAN'T at least mention something about Axl's new band
Untill their will grows tired
Iha is far from a novelty, the man can flat out play!
Corgan is more like Trent Rezonor imo. Trent changes lineups every album but still calls it NIN bc hes all that matters.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)