Paul McCartney

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  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    bit in bold... for the same reason Lennon wanted people to hear No.9.. he is fucking minted... he wanted to release it many times in the past... but George vetoed it... but now he wants people to hear it.. he's an artist... he thrives on people appreciating his art... wouldnt you want a hidden Rothko painting that has been under a sheet to be displayed after 40 years on the shelves? artists need that appreciation...


    i totally disagree with your points that he only talks about it to show people he was into it... i've read many books (revolution in the head being the best) about the music scene back then and Paul was very much into all this stuff and never publivly promoted it... after 30 years isnt he entitled to display his own inspirations... so Stockhausen did it in the 1950's? so fucking what... thats like saying all blues music is null and void as Robert Johnson did it in the 20's. :rolleyes:
    As I just said, most of Stockhausen's music isn't very interesting to listen to, it was just innovative. McCartney doing a pastiche of it is neither interesting to listen to nor innovative, doing it 20 years later and with a far more cavalier attitude to it, judging by the actual compositional method :p Stockhausen's work was very technical, just atonal and difficult to engage with. His scores were meticulously written. Whether that makes his music interesting is debatable. McCartney's approach is like 20th Century Avantism for Dummies. He's ENTITLED to it, he can make whatever music he wants, it just makes him seem like an arse in my opinion when he thinks other people should hear it.

    And no, I don't think Rothko would be that fussed about an old, lost canvas being displayed. He had issues with the role of the artist and felt guilty about anyone seeing and appreciating his work. He's also dead.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I would compile a playlist of shoddy self-indulgent crap that McCartney put on the later Beatles records to stand as a "quote" indicating this but I know you'll disagree with me so there's not much point. Put it this way, either McCartney likes making crap experimental music and knows it's crap and doesn't care or he thinks it's not crap. If it's the latter then it supports my view, if it's the former then fair play to him if he enjoys it. Doesn't mean I have to stop thinking he's a tedious arse though, I'm sure he doesn't care about my little opinion.


    thats supposition... and a poor one at that... he never has once said 'he thought he was a genius and innovator of it'

    he enjoyed it, still does....


    "either McCartney likes making crap experimental music and knows it's crap and doesn't care or he thinks it's not crap. If it's the latter then it supports my view, if it's the former then fair play to him if he enjoys it."

    if its the latter then isnt that just your opinion that its crap? your not judge and jury dude... you dislike him so you carry that into anything he might have done... The Fireman record is pretty good, interesting stuff.. but you'll nevber know.. because of your pre-conceived arrogance that all he does is pretentious crap. I'm allowed to say this cos if you ask me to listen to jazz or reggae pish then i'll call it shit without listening to it ;)

    if its the former, then good on him.. either way i bet he doesnt give a shit what we think... :D
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    you can criticise, as can i, but acknowledging his creative input into the beatles would be a good start... then we can tear into him or Obl-De-Obli-Da...
    [/i]
    I've never refused to acknowledge his creative input, or rather the extent of it, I just question the WORTH of it, as is my right.

    Like I've said, I think McCartney is, or rather was (I've not heard a single post-Beatles song I've liked that I can recall offhand) a very talented individual. Some of the songs he wrote for the Beatles are absolutely amazing. A lot were shit though. I refuse to blindly worship the guy because he is a Beatle when I find a lot of his music to be not just bad but objectionably bad.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    JWBusher wrote:
    You can always tell wanna-be's apart from real music fans when they diss Paul McCartney.
    Oh dear.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Evacuation Rules
    Evacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    Most people who diss Paul McCartney don't have the slightest understanding of anything he's accomplished, as this thread proves.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    As I just said, most of Stockhausen's music isn't very interesting to listen to, it was just innovative. McCartney doing a pastiche of it is neither interesting to listen to nor innovative, doing it 20 years later and with a far more cavalier attitude to it, judging by the actual compositional method :p Stockhausen's work was very technical, just atonal and difficult to engage with. His scores were meticulously written. Whether that makes his music interesting is debatable. McCartney's approach is like 20th Century Avantism for Dummies. He's ENTITLED to it, he can make whatever music he wants, it just makes him seem like an arse in my opinion when he thinks other people should hear it.


    McCartneys 'pastiche' has been listened to and enjoyed much more than Stockhausens.... 93.6% of music fans have no idea who stockhausen is... every fucker knows McCartney... you're just being your elitist snobbish self with this .. it makes him an arse cos he thinks people want to listen to his music? thats 100% of all recorded musicians then... Led Zeppelin? they robbed the blues... so you think their music/legacy/fans are fucking pointless then? dinnae answer... i dont care.



    [jeremy]
    And no, I don't think Rothko would be that fussed about an old, lost canvas being displayed. He had issues with the role of the artist and felt guilty about anyone seeing and appreciating his work. He's also dead.
    [/quote]

    sbstitute Rothko for some other artist you like then... you got my point... no need to become aloof. i know the cunt is dead... probably died of boredom of looking at his own paintings.
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    thats supposition... and a poor one at that... he never has once said 'he thought he was a genius and innovator of it'

    he enjoyed it, still does....


    "either McCartney likes making crap experimental music and knows it's crap and doesn't care or he thinks it's not crap. If it's the latter then it supports my view, if it's the former then fair play to him if he enjoys it."

    if its the latter then isnt that just your opinion that its crap? your not judge and jury dude... you dislike him so you carry that into anything he might have done... The Fireman record is pretty good, interesting stuff.. but you'll nevber know.. because of your pre-conceived arrogance that all he does is pretentious crap. I'm allowed to say this cos if you ask me to listen to jazz or reggae pish then i'll call it shit without listening to it ;)

    if its the former, then good on him.. either way i bet he doesnt give a shit what we think... :D
    Aye but this is the thing Dunk, it IS just my opinion. I've never seen a law that says we are entitled to some opinions but not others. Seems that somewhere along the lines an unwritten rule came into effect that McCartney is untouchable. I've not heard the Fireman record and I hope I never do. I've heard enough of the guy's music that I'm entitled to express my thoughts on it, or are you only allowed to do that if you like him? The internet is hardly serious business, I can rant and rave about the guy if I like. I don't like him. You're a cynical arrogant bastard about a lot of stuff too. Let's live and let hate :)
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • jamie uk
    jamie uk Posts: 3,812
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Yeah, and there's nothing so valuable in our appreciation of music as having sacred cows who can't be criticised is there?


    Nothing so valuable in our appreciation of anything, as the ability to just enjoy whatever the hell we like without the fear of over analysis by over bearing 'knowitall' critiques :o
    Someone like Mcartney is on a hiding to nothing, he had unsurmountable success in his early career....whatever could he have done since to better it? Should he have shut himself off from the world...?..be fair, what on earth could he have done since the Beatles that was even nearly good? Nothing! He shouldn't be continually hammered for everything....apart from the Frog chorus, give him as much shit for that as you want :D
    I came, I saw, I concurred.....
  • Evacuation Rules
    Evacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I couldn't give two shits about the Beatles.

    I also couldn't give a shit about his supposed musicianship. If I did then I'd probably be into jazz and/or classical music.

    Paul McCartney is pointless.

    If you "don't care" about his accomplishments, this only proves that you are proud to be an ignoramous. What's the fucking point of this stupid thread then? To prove what an arrogant ass you are when it comes to one of the greatest, most accomplished musicians who has ever lived?
    Byrnzie wrote:
    By the way, nice username. It speaks volumes.

    It has nothing to do with George Bush, moron. Stick to writing your lame critique threads. It's fun to watch people act stupid.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    McCartneys 'pastiche' has been listened to and enjoyed much more than Stockhausens.... 93.6% of music fans have no idea who stockhausen is... every fucker knows McCartney... you're just being your elitist snobbish self with this .. it makes him an arse cos he thinks people want to listen to his music? thats 100% of all recorded musicians then... Led Zeppelin? they robbed the blues... so you think their music/legacy/fans are fucking pointless then? dinnae answer... i dont care.
    How am I being my elitist, snobbish self? I never even expressed a liking for Stockhausen, I never said he is enjoyed by anyone, I never said I find a great deal of worth in his music.

    Tell me Duncan, say McCartney had never gone down this route, if I banged on some shit right now for 14 minutes and shouted Barcelona over it and then uploaded it to the internet and asked you to listen to it, would you say it was worth people hearing it or would you have called me a pretentious, faux-arty pseudo-intellectual snob cunt?

    I think we know the answer to that question. After all, I'm not allowed to say anything here without people calling me a snob because I choose not to only listen to the Beatles, read Jeremy Clarkson books, look at Bob Ross paintings and censor every idea I have in case someone thinks I've got delusions of grandeur.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    jamie uk wrote:
    Nothing so valuable in our appreciation of anything, as the ability to just enjoy whatever the hell we like without the fear of over analysis by over bearing 'knowitall' critiques :o
    This is rich :rolleyes:

    Read what I just said to Dunk.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    Aye but this is the thing Dunk, it IS just my opinion. I've never seen a law that says we are entitled to some opinions but not others. Seems that somewhere along the lines an unwritten rule came into effect that McCartney is untouchable. I've not heard the Fireman record and I hope I never do. I've heard enough of the guy's music that I'm entitled to express my thoughts on it, or are you only allowed to do that if you like him? The internet is hardly serious business, I can rant and rave about the guy if I like. I don't like him. You're a cynical arrogant bastard about a lot of stuff too. Let's live and let hate :)

    ahh but he's not untouchable... he's made some drivel.. but saying he wasnt innovative is just wrong.. he made the fucking bass guitar an instrument... he made tape loops common practice,... harpsichord solos... but you dismiss because of his success, and thats immature.

    your 2nd last sentence is true. :o:D
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jamie uk
    jamie uk Posts: 3,812
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    This is rich :rolleyes:

    Read what I just said to Dunk.


    No...I can't be bothered, you two are going at it like a Geek tragedy :p try and digest those dictionaries, the pair of you ;):p
    I came, I saw, I concurred.....
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    jamie uk wrote:
    No...I can't be bothered, you two are going at it like a Geek tragedy :p try and digest those dictionaries, the pair of you ;):p
    I'd like you to read it. Perhaps it will shed light on some of the hypocrisy here.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    ahh but he's not untouchable... he's made some drivel.. but saying he wasnt innovative is just wrong.. he made the fucking bass guitar an instrument... he made tape loops common practice,... harpsichord solos... but you dismiss because of his success, and thats immature.

    your 2nd last sentence is true. :o:D
    I did? :confused:

    That's funny. You see, not once have I ever thought about McCartney's success as a reason why I dislike him, I've certainly not posted about it.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    How am I being my elitist, snobbish self? I never even expressed a liking for Stockhausen, I never said he is enjoyed by anyone, I never said I find a great deal of worth in his music.

    Tell me Duncan, say McCartney had never gone down this route, if I banged on some shit right now for 14 minutes and shouted Barcelona over it and then uploaded it to the internet and asked you to listen to it, would you say it was worth people hearing it or would you have called me a pretentious, faux-arty pseudo-intellectual snob cunt?

    I think we know the answer to that question. After all, I'm not allowed to say anything here without people calling me a snob because I choose not to only listen to the Beatles, read Jeremy Clarkson books, look at Bob Ross paintings and censor every idea I have in case someone thinks I've got delusions of grandeur.

    i dunno... when Carnival of Light comes out i'll think its shite, just as i think No.9 is shite... just as i think Heyfoxymophandleme or whatever its called is shite... but i cant dismiss mccartneys breaking of the mold, the barriers..

    Blackbird is one of the most beautiful songs i've ever heard... ergo i like it... Rothko paintings look like someone gave an epileptic thalidomide victim a sponge and 2 paints... but i get Picasso, Van Gogh, Bacon, etc..
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I did? :confused:

    That's funny. You see, not once have I ever thought about McCartney's success as a reason why I dislike him, I've certainly not posted about it.

    you wrote:
    it just makes him seem like an arse in my opinion when he thinks other people should hear it.

    Uh huh but Lennon wasn't going around talking about how innovative and avant-garde he was, I'm sure he knew damn well his Two Virgins type albums were pure shite. McCartney thinks he's a genius. He's not, he wrote some good pop songs over 40 yeard ago. He's actually preparing to release a song that was neither good enough for release at the time, nor was it good enough for inclusion on their odds-and-sods Anthologies, because the other members deemed it to be self-indulgent crap. Now he thinks it's worthy of release because it will, in his own words, show how experimental he has always been.

    He's so far up his own arse it's unreal.

    so you... the world renowned critic... think he isnt a genius? that he's written 'some good pop songs'? :D

    I'm out. you doth maketh me laugheth :D:)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    i dunno... when Carnival of Light comes out i'll think its shite, just as i think No.9 is shite... just as i think Heyfoxymophandleme or whatever its called is shite... but i cant dismiss mccartneys breaking of the mold, the barriers..

    Blackbird is one of the most beautiful songs i've ever heard... ergo i like it... Rothko paintings look like someone gave an epileptic thalidomide victim a sponge and 2 paints... but i get Picasso, Van Gogh, Bacon, etc..
    Where has all this about Rothko come from? I'm not a big fan or anything.

    That said, I don't see why a work that looks like it is by the hand of an epileptic thalidomide victim is necessarily to be the object of contempt. Certainly more than one McCartney composition could be described in a similar way. Wild Honey Pie for instance. There's no reason why someone else shouldn't like it though.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    dunkman wrote:
    so you... the world renowned critic... think he isnt a genius? that he's written 'some good pop songs'? :D

    I'm out. you doth maketh me laugheth :D:)
    In what way are the two posts you just quoted linked at all?

    And seriously, fuck off with this "world renowned critic" shit. You are the one who thinks this, not me. You are the one with some issue about what you perceive as my arrogance. I'm just passing comment, you're the one tagging me as someone who thinks his opinion carries weight. Sounds like you take my posts a hell of a lot more seriously than I do.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • dunkman
    dunkman Posts: 19,646
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    In what way are the two posts you just quoted linked at all?

    And seriously, fuck off with this "world renowned critic" shit. You are the one who thinks this, not me. You are the one with some issue about what you perceive as my arrogance. I'm just passing comment, you're the one tagging me as someone who thinks his opinion carries weight. Sounds like you take my posts a hell of a lot more seriously than I do.


    your opinion carries weight within yourself... everyone else thinks you excrete from your fingertips ;)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.

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