What's Going On With The Dead?

Bob Weir

I know this might not be the best place to vent but WTF,I just found out that Grateful Dead Productions just pulled all of the live bootlegs from the Live Music Archive.I'm not sure yet about anywhere else but this is truely fucked up.

I've been a "Deadhead" for years and I think I'm starting to lose faith.They don't need the money and trading ther live shows is what made them as famous as they are.This is a huge insult to the Dead community.I can only assume that they are going to make the vault avalible via paid downloads and that is even more fucked up.I know this subject has caused many problems within the band before(mainly Phil Lesh disagreeing with the idea of selling anything) and I guess the "big wigs" won.

This doesn't effect the way I feel about there music but I will never buy any Dead merch again (except concert tickets)unless I trade some dirty hippie a veggie buritto or something,luckily I have downloaded so many shows I don't feel the need for anymore anyway ,but I feel bad for any newcomers that will miss out on the music because a couple of greedy assholes want to make even more money than the millions they have already made.


....I hear something............it's Jerry...........he just turned in his grave.

reeferchief

There's a Jerry Garcia works in my local Tescos store, i've heard them ask for him on the tannoy, before, i had a giggle:)

brain of c

i love the dead......

BUENA

Bob Weir wrote:

I know this might not be the best place to vent but WTF,I just found out that Grateful Dead Productions just pulled all of the live bootlegs from the Live Music Archive.I'm not sure yet about anywhere else but this is truely fucked up.

I've been a "Deadhead" for years and I think I'm starting to lose faith.They don't need the money and trading ther live shows is what made them as famous as they are.This is a huge insult to the Dead community.I can only assume that they are going to make the vault avalible via paid downloads and that is even more fucked up.I know this subject has caused many problems within the band before(mainly Phil Lesh disagreeing with the idea of selling anything) and I guess the "big wigs" won.

This doesn't effect the way I feel about there music but I will never buy any Dead merch again (except concert tickets)unless I trade some dirty hippie a veggie buritto or something,luckily I have downloaded so many shows I don't feel the need for anymore anyway ,but I feel bad for any newcomers that will miss out on the music because a couple of greedy assholes want to make even more money than the millions they have already made.


....I hear something............it's Jerry...........he just turned in his grave.

The dead?






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Pearl Jam and toast

and to top that off their cds and dvds are WAY too fucking expensive.

IM NOT GOING TO PAY 30 DOLLARS FOR A FUCKING CD.

StuffnJunk

so after years of people hearing their music for free, they are actually going to start charging?

how dare they!!!! (sarcasm)

you know, part of the reason jerry dropped dead at age 53 was because they didn't have enough money coming in and and they had to keep touring and touring and touring in order to keep the organization afloat

so if they had charged for bootlegs all along.............(fill in the blank)

merkinball

StuffnJunk wrote:

so if they had charged for bootlegs all along.............(fill in the blank)

They wouldn't have had to tour so much, and Jerry would have been clean and sober? Doubtful. The man had a heavy habit, and time (and use) caught up with him. Even if they didn't tour so much, Jerry was always playing, either with the JGB or other assorted projects.

And you can't blame all of this on the band, look at what Garcias family has done with the JGB recordings, and all the Jerry releated stuff. They sell as much crap with Jerrys name on it as the dead do with theirs. Also note that Ratdog (through Oct. 03) and Phil & Friends are up on the Live Music Archive, but the Jerry Garcia Band stuff has never shown up there. It sucks that they pulled the soundboards, but at least the audience recordings are still up there.

Bob Weir

StuffnJunk wrote:

so after years of people hearing their music for free, they are actually going to start charging?

how dare they!!!! (sarcasm)

you know, part of the reason jerry dropped dead at age 53 was because they didn't have enough money coming in and and they had to keep touring and touring and touring in order to keep the organization afloat

so if they had charged for bootlegs all along.............(fill in the blank)

You must not know anything about the Dead.

They *SELL* just about everything including a crazy amount of live stuff,Garcia ties,wine, don't tell me they "need" the $$ the only ones that even compare to the Dead in this category is KISS.

The trading of there live shows should be sacred,it's the main reason they are as popular as they are.

and to Merkinball,you can only stream the shows on the archive,but it looks like gdlive.com and furthur are still good(for now).

bonavista2005

Bob Weir wrote:

I know this might not be the best place to vent but WTF,I just found out that Grateful Dead Productions just pulled all of the live bootlegs from the Live Music Archive.I'm not sure yet about anywhere else but this is truely fucked up.

I've been a "Deadhead" for years and I think I'm starting to lose faith.They don't need the money and trading ther live shows is what made them as famous as they are.This is a huge insult to the Dead community.I can only assume that they are going to make the vault avalible via paid downloads and that is even more fucked up.I know this subject has caused many problems within the band before(mainly Phil Lesh disagreeing with the idea of selling anything) and I guess the "big wigs" won.

This doesn't effect the way I feel about there music but I will never buy any Dead merch again (except concert tickets)unless I trade some dirty hippie a veggie buritto or something,luckily I have downloaded so many shows I don't feel the need for anymore anyway ,but I feel bad for any newcomers that will miss out on the music because a couple of greedy assholes want to make even more money than the millions they have already made.


....I hear something............it's Jerry...........he just turned in his grave.

nothing can happen that would make me change the way I feel about the grateful dead. i owe them everything. they owe me nothing.

personally speaking, i look forward to the day when the whole vault gets opened up for sale...cause i look forward to buying every show i've seen in sbd quality.

let's face it GDM isn't making the money that they once did when they were a touring machine. it's not my place to say how they go about feeding their families. i certainly don't mind throwing more cash their way. it's the most worthy organization i've ever been involved with.

StuffnJunk

Bob Weir wrote:

You must not know anything about the Dead.

They *SELL* just about everything including a crazy amount of live stuff,Garcia ties,wine, don't tell me they "need" the $$ the only ones that even compare to the Dead in this category is KISS.

The trading of there live shows should be sacred,it's the main reason they are as popular as they are.

and to Merkinball,you can only stream the shows on the archive,but it looks like gdlive.com and furthur are still good(for now).

yeah, i'll admit i don't know much about the dead, i just wanted to stir up the shit a little

however, the fact that they allowed free trading of their shows for so long was EXTRAORDINARY.......the fact that they are charging for them now is NORMAL..........so its hard to complain, just be glad they gave them away for free for so long

bonavista2005

merkinball wrote:

It sucks that they pulled the soundboards, but at least the audience recordings are still up there.

for a guy who use to get 10th gen cassette tapes, 11 months after the show happened, i think we've come a long way with what archive.org are offering us.

audience recordings are A OK with me!

archive.org rawks!

merkinball

Bob Weir wrote:

and to Merkinball,you can only stream the shows on the archive,but it looks like gdlive.com and furthur are still good(for now).

Now that does suck. I like to stream off of LMA (streamed a '91 show earlier today), but if there isn't a download source anymore its a sad day for Dead traders. I wonder how long it will take till they are banned at dimeadozen, or any of the other sites.

Went to check Dimeadozen, noticed there are a few dead sbds being hosted over there. Better grab em while you can!

merkinball

Also, I'm not one to believe in the power of online petitions, but if you want to pass it around, there is one dedicated to this topic:

http://www.petitiononline.com/gdm/petition.html

BUENA

The Dead? YAWWWWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!

Steveo

holy crap..its bob weir!
bobby i saw you a bunch of times this spring/summer/fall

anyways, its a shame archive.org has no more SBDs. thats where i got a bulk of my shows.
GDP is losing money apparently, as they even fired ramrod. i duno what to think about it.
for now. bt.etree.org --people are putting up a lot of SBDs for download, and im sure theyll be doing it for a while

Bob Weir

bonavista2005 wrote:

nothing can happen that would make me change the way I feel about the grateful dead. i owe them everything. they owe me nothing.

personally speaking, i look forward to the day when the whole vault gets opened up for sale...cause i look forward to buying every show i've seen in sbd quality.

let's face it GDM isn't making the money that they once did when they were a touring machine. it's not my place to say how they go about feeding their families. i certainly don't mind throwing more cash their way. it's the most worthy organization i've ever been involved with.

I don't have anything against them selling sbd's,I just think it's shitty that after 20/30 years of allowing free trades that they are now removing them from the internet.I'm not alone even members of the Dead(Phil) don't agree with this.

And speaking of Phil it looks like he's on fire right now,so far 4 shows this tour and only like 1 or 2 repeats,and debut's at every show so far ,can't wait for next sat and sun w/Sco,and I'm sure he'll be releasing FREE sbd's soon.

Steveo

Bob Weir wrote:

I don't have anything against them selling sbd's,I just think it's shitty that after 20/30 years of allowing free trades that they are now removing them from the internet.I'm not alone even members of the Dead(Phil) don't agree with this.

And speaking of Phil it looks like he's on fire right now,so far 4 shows this tour and only like 1 or 2 repeats,and debut's at every show so far ,can't wait for next sat and sun w/Sco,and I'm sure he'll be releasing FREE sbd's soon.

ill be at the saturday show with scofield. cant wait
viola lee and golden road...im predicting it...havent heard them all year

Bob Weir

Steveo wrote:

ill be at the saturday show with scofield. cant wait
viola lee and golden road...im predicting it...havent heard them all year

I'll be at Sunday's show (Sat. if I can get the night off).Good luck with the songs,they've played both this tour so far but who knows what they'll do with Sco,I'd guess alot of jamming so Viola might be a good call.I'm guessing sun. we'll get a massive Dark Star show.

Steveo

Bob Weir wrote:

I'll be at Sunday's show (Sat. if I can get the night off).Good luck with the songs,they've played both this tour so far but who knows what they'll do with Sco,I'd guess alot of jamming so Viola might be a good call.I'm guessing sun. we'll get a massive Dark Star show.

yeah i have a feelin theyre gonna delve into space a lot with scofield

merkinball

Here's an update from Phil. Apparently he wasn't part of this decision:

http://www.phillesh.net/philzonepages/friends_stuff/hotline.html

It was brought to my attention that all of the Grateful Dead shows were taken down from Archive.org right before Thanksgiving. I was not part of this decision making process and was not notified that the shows were to be pulled. I do feel that the music is the Grateful Dead's legacy and I hope that one way or another all of it is available for those who want it . I have enjoyed using Archive.org and found it invaluable during the writing of my book. I found myself being pulled back in time listening to old Grateful Dead shows while giggling with glee or feeling that ache in my heart listening to Jerry's poetic guitar and sweet voice.

We are musicians not businessmen and have made good and bad decisions on our journey. We do love and care about our community as you helped us make the music. We could not have made this kind of music without you as you allowed us to play "without a net". Your love, trust and patience made it possible for us to try again the next show when we couldn't get that magic carpet off the ground. Your concerns have been heard and I am sure are being respectfully addressed.
- Phil

Bob Weir

From Relix.com
2005-11-30 18:07:56

Grateful Dead Downloads Will Be Restored at Archive.org

Complete recordings of Grateful Dead concerts will once again be available at the online Internet Archive (archive.org)—perhaps as early as tonight.
According to Grateful Dead spokesman Dennis McNally, the removal on November 22 of all downloadable Dead recordings from archive.org was the result of “a great communication snafu.”

“It is my understanding that by the end of the day, the audience tapes will be restored to archive.org,” McNally said by phone. Soundboard recordings will also be available streaming only.

"We at archive.org now realize that our mistaken attempts to move quickly were based on what we thought the Grateful Dead wanted," the site's administrators said in a public statement. "For this we apologize both to the Grateful Dead and their community. There has been a great deal of reaction, our actions have caused more than necessary."

Since 2003, the Internet Archive’s Grateful Dead page allowed fans to upload entire shows, which were then universally available for free download. Well-connected Deadheads have been using the Archive to bolster their collections of live Dead music ever since.

But on November 22, fans were shocked to find that access to the 1,172 recordings of Dead shows (and occasional rarities like rehearsal sessions) that had been previously available had been blocked. That included access to the “audience tapes”—recordings made the old-fashioned way, with two microphones and a tape deck in the special “taper section” at Dead concerts.

The Grateful Dead have long been known for their policy of allowing fans to record their concerts—even allowing Deadhead tapers to plug directly into the band’s mixing console (resulting in the high-quality “soundboard” recordings)—then disseminate the recordings freely. The band’s freewheeling taping policy has been widely credited for maintaining the band’s success, even during decades of lukewarm attention from critics and the mainstream commercial music industry.

So, the reaction to the move from Deadheads accustomed to unlimited access in both the virtual and real worlds has ranged from disappointed to furious to—well, grateful that the material had been available online for so long at all.

Online petitions have quickly appeared in the last week, asking the band to reconsider the policy, along with vibrant chatroom discourses at fan sites across the Internet.

Many fans decried the move as a betrayal of the Dead’s core values, some even announcing the end of the Grateful Dead—a band that has continued in spirit, and in modified touring versions, even after the 1995 death of guitarist Jerry Garcia.

After all, it was Garcia who famously said, “once we’re done with [the music], you can have it.”

Bassist Phil Lesh echoed that sentiment—quoting Garcia in an interview with Charlie Rose on CBS’s 60 Minutes in 2004: “Jerry put it the best, as he frequently did, ‘Let ‘em have it. When we play it, we’re done with it.”

But it turns out that the Grateful Dead, whose business model has been shifting in recent years from selling concert tickets to selling concert recordings—and increasingly to selling digital downloads of concert recordings—may not be done with it quite yet. Reporting by Richard B. Simon


Thank God!!!!!

FinsburyParkCarrots

http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4491568.stm

SigmaSquared

The bootlegs should always be free to trade - that was one thing about the Dead that made them so cool. In fact, it seems like Pearl Jam borrowed from this idea with their bootlegs of live shows, esp. all the ones in plain brown sleeves.

kdpjam

i don't know about the bootleg thing, but i would like to go to another show.

rhinomagic

Thanks for bumping. I missed this the first time around, but I'm glad that the natural order seems to have been restored.

Grateful Dead did SO much to help create music-sharing communities. If not for their fans' passion, we may not have Pearl Jam bootlegs in such strong supply.

.

JOEJOEJOE

Bob Weir wrote:

You must not know anything about the Dead.

They *SELL* just about everything including a crazy amount of live stuff,Garcia ties,wine, don't tell me they "need" the $$ the only ones that even compare to the Dead in this category is KISS.

The trading of there live shows should be sacred,it's the main reason they are as popular as they are.

and to Merkinball,you can only stream the shows on the archive,but it looks like gdlive.com and furthur are still good(for now).

In the non-hippie world, financial decisions are not always based on the "need" for money....they are mostly based on the "want" for money.

Just because they may not need the money, that doesn't preclude them from exploiting their properties as they see fit.....perhaps people need to realize that their employees need to make a living, so its not like the owners are the only ones who benefit from the additional revenue.

Trading live shows may be sacred, but people need to realize that they were getting a nice benefit for many years, and they are hopefully greatful for what they have received.


Just my 2 cents. I am a liberal thinker, but I feel its important to respect property rights, especially in this non-life threatening situation.