hip hop and the r&r HOF
reversedarwinism
Posts: 1,151
personally, i don't think this is a good move by the HOF. i am a fan on hip hop music, but i consider it to be a different genre of music. when i hear "rock and roll" i think beatles, zeppelin. when thinking of bands from my time that deserve to be inducted van halen and rem certainly belong there and pj, radiohead, and rhcp are certainly shoe-ins. but i have many other bands i could list and i'm sure you do as well. how will this hip hop inclusion change the fate of much deserving bands? they will have to be compared to the hip hop greats now. i'm pretty sure that there is a hall of fame or something similar that celebrates hip hop. shouldn't the "rock and roll" hall celebrate rock and roll? it's not the "pop" music hall of fame.
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apparently, the Dave Clarke 5 received more votes, but the Hall thought it would be better received to induct a Rap Pioneer , instead.
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Even if i did not think it was a bunch of BS i would say i do not think rap/hip hop artist should be inducted.
Black Sabbath not getting in till last year or whatever is all the proof i need that these guys are a bunch of losers.
Lets see we are going to deny a band that hugely influenced a major genre of rock music (heavy metal) entry in the hall.
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Would it be better suited to call it a Music Hall of Fame? So, instead of narrowing it down to a specific genre, the name reflected a broader base?
I like seeing different styles of music being inducted together.
I will concede that the selection process is suspect.
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Yep I agree with you 100%
EXACTLY. The Hall was NEVER meant ONLY for "rock" acts. It has always included soul, r&b and blues artists. This is simply the next progression and an acknowledgment of something that has a HUGE influence in our society.
I've never heard anyone complain about non-"rock" acts until this year. As Billy Joel (of all people) said, "It's all rock & roll to me!"
(Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)
does the hall have alot of jazz, country and pop artist? i'd like to see the list of members, because i bet its based around "rock and roll", i can think of some huge pop stars that have had a HUGE influence on music and our society and they prob aren't included. rock and roll artists with some cross-over/influence types. possibly grandmaster flash and furious five fit in that, but to go by the standard you gave its just a "pop" HOF that will surely include tons of rappers and madona. and possibly that is what the r&r HOF is, but i need to see the list. just seems like i remember it being more like a rock based group of artist, but i will try to find that info.
There has always been R&B, Soul, Funk, artists that qualify as country, rockabilly or bluegrass...there has always been NON-PERFORMING people who have made influence and impact in American pop music culture...below is the COMPLETE list of PERFORMERS inducted...note that they are NOT ALL ROCK AND ROLL artists.
Chuck Berry
James Brown
Ray Charles
Sam Cooke
Fats Domino
The Everly Brothers
Buddy Holly
Jerry Lee Lewis
Elvis Presley
Little Richard
Robert Johnson
Jimmie Rodgers
Jimmy Yancey
The Coasters
Eddie Cochran
Bo Diddley
Aretha Franklin
Marvin Gaye
Bill Haley
B. B. King
Clyde McPhatter
Ricky Nelson
Roy Orbison
Carl Perkins
Smokey Robinson
Big Joe Turner
Muddy Waters
Jackie Wilson
Louis Jordan
T-Bone Walker
Hank Williams
The Beach Boys
The Beatles
The Drifters
Bob Dylan
The Supremes
Woody Guthrie
Lead Belly
Les Paul
Dion
Otis Redding
The Rolling Stones
The Temptations
Stevie Wonder
The Inkspots
Bessie Smith
The Soul Stirrers
Hank Ballard
Bobby Darin
The Four Seasons
The Four Tops
The Kinks
The Platters
Simon and Garfunkel
The Who
Louis Armstrong
Charlie Christian
Ma Rainey
LaVern Baker
The Byrds
John Lee Hooker
The Impressions
Wilson Pickett
Jimmy Reed
Ike and Tina Turner
Howlin' Wolf
Bobby "Blue" Bland
Booker T. and the M.G.'s
Johnny Cash
The Isley Brothers
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Sam and Dave
The Yardbirds
Elmore James
Professor Longhair
Ruth Brown
Cream
Creedence Clearwater Revival
The Doors
Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers
Etta James
Van Morrison
Sly and the Family Stone
Dinah Washington
The Animals
The Band
Duane Eddy
The Grateful Dead
Elton John
John Lennon
Bob Marley
Rod Stewart
Willie Dixon
The Allman Brothers Band
Al Green
Janis Joplin
Led Zeppelin
Martha and the Vandellas
Neil Young
Frank Zappa
The Orioles
David Bowie
Gladys Knight and the Pips
Jefferson Airplane
Little Willie John
Pink Floyd
The Shirelles
The Velvet Underground
Pete Seeger
The (Young) Rascals
The Bee Gees
Buffalo Springfield
Crosby, Stills and Nash
The Jackson Five
Joni Mitchell
Parliament-Funkadelic
Mahalia Jackson
Bill Monroe
The Eagles
Fleetwood Mac
The Mamas and the Papas
Lloyd Price
Santana
Gene Vincent
Jelly Roll Morton
Billy Joel
Curtis Mayfield
Paul McCartney
Del Shannon
Dusty Springfield
Bruce Springsteen
The Staple Singers
Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys
Charles Brown
Eric Clapton
Earth, Wind & Fire
Lovin' Spoonful
The Moonglows
Bonnie Raitt
James Taylor
Nat "King" Cole
Billie Holiday
Aerosmith
Solomon Burke
The Flamingos
Michael Jackson
Queen
Paul Simon
Steely Dan
Ritchie Valens
Isaac Hayes
Brenda Lee
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
Gene Pitney
Ramones
Talking Heads
AC/DC
The Clash
Elvis Costello & the Attractions
The Police
Righteous Brothers
Jackson Browne
The Dells
George Harrison
Prince
Bob Seger
Traffic
ZZ Top
Buddy Guy
The O'Jays
The Pretenders
Percy Sledge
U2
Black Sabbath
Blondie
Miles Davis
Lynyrd Skynyrd
Sex Pistols
(Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)
if all the ballots were in when they were supposed to be in, dc5 would have been in.
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thanks for looking this up. i forgot about it. however, i believe that it confirms what i was saying about being by far a mostly "rock/blues" list with some key influential artist from the other genres. it certainly is a "rock and roll" list though and, like i said, grandmaster flash and furious five mey fit into that. but to include snoop, mariah, dr dre and will smith would be totally out of place.
and it is more specific than a "music" HOF. for exapmple, they include miles davis and billie holiday but where is louis armstrong, john coltrane, bob james, champ basie, and that great one from dc that i can't remember right now. so jazz isn't celebrated like rock in the list. and jazz has certainly been one of the most popular and influential musical forces.
bob will and his texas playboys - fuckin cool that this county artist is included. their contribution is so huge for all music. plus, i'm a fan so.....
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the beatles are the definition of pop.
OK, but here's the thing: Inducting Grandmaster Flash, or as you put it, "some key influential artist from the other genres," that doesn't mean that suddenly they will be inducting Mariah Carey or Snoop Dogg, nor would I support that. But will the Hall eventually induct Michael Jackson, Madonna and Wu-Tang Clan? Probably. Will I cry foul? No.
I've never argued (nor heard anyone else argue) that the RRHOF is not a "mostly "rock/blues" list." All supporters of Flash's induction agree with that observation...it's not actually an opinion, it's just a fact, so to say your statement is confirmed is fine. But what this actually does is confirm MY statement that the Hall has ALWAYS inducted non-"rock" artists as well, select as they may be.
I can't answer your question about jazz...that's a question you'd have to ask the Hall. Just because they choose to induct certain genres aside from rock doesn't mean they have to induct EVERY genre. I don't see Mozart or Beethoven either... But again the larger point is that they've never pigeonholed themselves to "ROCK," and they've always selected artists from certain genres outside of rock.
The argument that some are posting that by inducting Grandmaster Flash, next they will be inducting every pop artist under the sun is equivalent to the illogical conclusions I've heard from Bill O'Reilly that once gay marriage is allowed, people will next be marrying sheep.
(Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)
i hope you're right about these new selections being essentially the same as say... bob wills and miles davis. and that it will not turn into people marrying sheep (metaphorically). obviously the hall isn't pigeonholed as "rock/blues", but from looking at the list, that is the major area of concentration. the reason i started this post was because i've heard many people on tv saying that grandmaster flash and furious five's induction "opens the door for hip hop artists", which is a very disturbing statement. but i will hope that your point of view will prevail and the hall will stay away from the sheep.
i meant "pop" as an all inclusive group of popular music. which would include jazz, blues, country, rock, hip hop, disco and all the rest. the beatles are definately "pop" considering they are the most popular group of all time along with elvis, but they certainly are "rock" as well.
The Chronic, his work in NWA and his role as a producer should make him a lock.
I look at the list that was posted and I see it more as pioneers of their genre.
While there is a Country Music Hall of Fame, it would be nice to see everyone enshrined in one Hall of Fame.
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Michael Jackson's already in. Twice.
Also, I think the reason someone like Miles Davis is in the R n' R Hall of Fame, if it is supposed to be mainly rock n' roll, is because he was very influential and to the formation of jazz/rock fusion. Which is now a fairly large genre that I would include as part of rock n' roll.
But, I do agree it should be kept to mainly rock n' roll (and acts that influenced rock n' roll). Otherwise just call it the music hall of fame.
LOL! I hear ya...don't get me wrong, I agree with the principal of what you're saying...but the "opens doors" talk is eerily similar to the "sheep" talk.
You are correct and I feel dumb for neglecting to notice this when I'm the one that compiled the list of artists in the hall! Being in as a member of J5 and as a solo artist...WOW! That's awesome, no matter how much BS might really go with the decision-making.
(Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)
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While here, still a travesty that Rush is not in.
At first I thought you were dealing in the semantics of hip-hop vs rap, meaning the culture vs the music, but then you noted specific arists, so I'm not sure...
In any case, many of the inductees have contributed to far more than JUST the music in their genre; they have contributed to mainstream culture and the sub-cultures affiliated with the music.
So theoretically, it is the legends of hip-hop culture that should be in
(Shawn Smith's official website, but not Thee Shawn Smith)