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why are old albums quiter than new ones?

dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
edited February 2008 in Other Music
ok its bothered me for a while and i cant find anything about it online... but i've got a broad range of stuff from the 60's onwards and i can be listening to Led Zep on shuffle and then Smashing Pumpkins will come on and deafen me.. Pearl Jams albums get progressively louder as well.

put Ten on and put it to a decent loudness and then quickly change it to Avocado and its *kaboom*

i know Itunes does the sound leveller thing but i've found it makes the sound distort (esp. if its making a quiter song louder)


so any ideas as to why this is? are we more deaf as a race 40-50 years later??? its bugging me
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
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Comments

  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    It's to do with the whole 'Loudness war" thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

    Basically the record industry aim to make their artists' records louder so that they stand out more on radio and stuff, kind of like how TV adverts are louder than the show you are watching. The way they make it louder, however, is at the expense of the sound quality, via compression and stuff.
  • PJamGrunge10PJamGrunge10 Posts: 596
    Check this thread:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=268979&highlight=production

    click on the link in the first post. I think that kind of explains it...

    there are a few other links throughout the thread describing it as well.



    EDIT: facepollution just posted it.
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  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    wow.. thats was genuinely useful and informative..

    thanks :)
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Posts: 12,223
    Yup, what they said.
  • ScotInAmsterdamScotInAmsterdam Posts: 1,004
    I read something on Jack Endinos blog a while back that he reckons the digitally remastered CD of Raw Power by the stooges is one of the loudest albums he's ever heard. He thinks they may have removed the kick drum from the mix digitally so that there is no "amplitude spike" and the whole thing increases to a higher level when normalised.
  • Fender_ManFender_Man Posts: 408
    Read a good article in the Times a few weeks back. A sound engineer at Abbey Road (may have been the same guy in the Wikpedia article?) was asked to review the Led Zeppelin Mothership CD then compare it to the Remasters CD released 16 years ago. What was the difference? His conclusion was that they had taken the Remasters recordings and just compressed the shit out of them. Yeah, at first listen they were louder and really leapt out of the speakers at you, but on repeated listens a lot of the subtleties and nuances of the original recordings were missing. Each Zeppelin album had it's own unique sound and atmosphere. IMO the tracks on Mothership sound like they are all from the same album, which is not good.
    Viva la vinyl!
  • ScotInAmsterdamScotInAmsterdam Posts: 1,004
    I've not heard mothership - and don't feel I have much need to. I always felt that the remasters CD was a slightly sped up compared to the vinyl. I actually knew the remasters CD before I knew the vinyl, and when I first listened to the vinyl I didn't think they were as good, but 18 years later, they have grown on me somewhat..... I much prefer the vinyl.
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    The amps didn't go to 11 until Spinal Tap
  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    Fender_Man wrote:
    A sound engineer at Abbey Road (may have been the same guy in the Wikpedia article?) was asked to review the Led Zeppelin Mothership CD then compare it to the Remasters CD released 16 years ago. What was the difference? His conclusion was that they had taken the Remasters recordings and just compressed the shit out of them.

    That same Abbey Road engineer is A guy who smothers everything he masters in noise reduction, sucking the air and life out of everything he remasters. He's right about the loudness thing, but really shouldn't be talking about what a good remaster is.
  • geniegenie Posts: 2,222
    PJamGrunge10 wrote:
    Check this thread:

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=268979&highlight=production

    click on the link in the first post. I think that kind of explains it...

    there are a few other links throughout the thread describing it as well.



    EDIT: facepollution just posted it.

    wow, this is freaking good....i mean information of course :) what the industry is doing is horrible. i think song changes and looses it's beauty.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    this thread is informative i tell thee!!

    so, can we say that when we hear say "revolver" on a CD then it will technically 'sound' better than Muse's last album (which appears to have been compressed to hell according to these articles).. ok i might have to turn "revolver' up a few more decibels but it will sounds better? is that right?


    and is this the same for vinyl? does new vinyl sound louder than old vinyl?
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • harmless_little_f***harmless_little_f*** Posts: 8,005
    Albums are getting louder by the day, by the decade, by the century. In fact, in prehistoric times albums were so quiet that people didn't even know they existed!!
    'We're learning songs for baby Jesus' birthday. His mum and dad were Merry and Joseph. He had a bed made of clay and the three kings bought him Gold, Frankenstein and Merv as presents.'

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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Mixing and Mastering, some are better at it than others. The ears and skill of the recording engineer.

    Older albums originally cut on vinyl sound tremendously better on Vinyl than they do remastered... warmer and richer....noisier.

    Some new albums are absolutely stunning... some sound terrible.


    It depends on what you use and how you do it.

    Mainly I think there are percieved differences but new technologies like computer based multi track recording with all the new comp/limiters maximisers etc can effect the way the album sounds.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • Fender_ManFender_Man Posts: 408
    JWBusher wrote:
    That same Abbey Road engineer is A guy who smothers everything he masters in noise reduction, sucking the air and life out of everything he remasters. He's right about the loudness thing, but really shouldn't be talking about what a good remaster is.

    Yeah, that was mentioned in the same article. I think he has a valid point regarding the Zep remasters, IMO. Was he the same fella that caused a bit of a stir with his remastering of the Pink Floyd back cat?
  • GreenTeaDiseaseGreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    this happens to me too. In the gym I have a lot of old soundgarden on my shuffle and I have to crank it up to even hear it and then the next song comes on and blows my eardrums out.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    I think where this is going to have to go is Auto Volume Adjustment in Every device we own to get some sense of consistancy from our media.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • GreenTeaDiseaseGreenTeaDisease Posts: 3,359
    genie wrote:
    wow, this is freaking good....i mean information of course :) what the industry is doing is horrible. i think song changes and looses it's beauty.

    it's very interesting!
  • BinFrogBinFrog Posts: 7,309
    I was hoping the original thread (linked above) would have kept going.
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  • Evacuation RulesEvacuation Rules Posts: 2,162
    Fender_Man wrote:
    Was he the same fella that caused a bit of a stir with his remastering of the Pink Floyd back cat?

    I don't think so. Most of the Floyd remasters were done by Doug Sax and he's THE BEST in the business. Floyd (wisely) doesn't use the EMI Abbey Road staff.
  • TrailerTrailer Posts: 1,431
    Fucking compression!! It can be good when done to isolated tracks (guitars, drums, vocals, etc..) in the mixing process... but when they (the mastering engineers) over-compress the final stereo mix, that's when you come across your aforementioned problem Dunk..
    Whoa, chill bro... you know you can't raise your voice like that when the lion's here.
  • NCBRINCBRI Posts: 1,902
    this article was in Rolling Stone not to long ago: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity/print


    One of the quotes: "I believe that if a vocalist is hyper-tuned, it's less personal. I have no aversion to using Auto-Tune when I have to. But I think listeners can hear it."
    — Brendan O'Brien, producer of Pearl Jam, Rage Against the Machine and Bruce Springtseen's The Rising and Magic
    Brian
  • deadnotedeadnote Posts: 1,678
    i know aic album facelift is really loud
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  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,483
    If its too loud you are too old!
    :)
  • facepollutionfacepollution Posts: 6,834
    GreenTeaDisease wrote:
    this happens to me too. In the gym I have a lot of old soundgarden on my shuffle and I have to crank it up to even hear it and then the next song comes on and blows my eardrums out.

    Talking of Soundgarden, they are one of the few bands that had very decent production, check out Like Suicide as an example, it's genius how clearly you can hear every instrument.
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