It's Kinda Sad...

Cosmo

It's kinda sad that instead of celebrating everything that is happening (Eddie on tour.. posibly the first of several and Pearl Jam in Tennessee)... we are all upset and bickering. I mean, I understand and agree with the ones whose funding was mangled by this... your anger is justifiable.
But, the rest... well, I can understand disappointment... but, anger? A day later? Come on... think about it... it was a pre-sale for a tiny amount of tickets. There are still 1,800 per venue up for grabs on Friday. The world didn't end... the Sun is in the sky today.
And the ones who run to the alter of the Evil Lord Ticketmaster... well, it reminds me of that movie with Charleston Heston as Moses. I'm not comparing the Ten Club to Moses... but, even after the fucking Guy trounced the Egyptians... put up a tornado of fire... parted the red Sea and drowned their pursuers.. they STILL didn't believe him and went to the alter of the Golden Calf.
Again... Ten Club not Moses... more like we are like those people in the movie that kiss the feet of Ticketmaster. Don't do it. They are still a monster. The only difference is they will shut you our a lot faster so you can return to your very important what ever it is you missed out yesterday from 10 to 11. What would i have missed out on? One hour of bullshitting around here.
The bottom line... I think about people facing real problems... like my friend who is only 34 and facing a tough fight with breast cancer... or my other friend with health problems (I'm taking her to the Ed shows.. the ones she can make it to). And I think about our soldier brothers and sisters over there and the ones forced back home because the Army won't allow a wheelchair bound, double amputee back into the fight.
yeah... it was disappointing and all... but, in the big scheme of things... the things that matter in your life... where does it place in your list of priorities? If it is at the top... above your family... your spouse... your friends... well, I think you might want to reassess your priorities.
...
There is always hope for Friday.

norm

right on cosmo.....

restlesssoul

reality check

farfromglorified

Cosmo,

I've read a lot of your posts over the last couple days on this subject and I think a lot of your ideas have been really spot-on. However, I find most of your arguments here to be really hollow.

You chide fans for going to Ticketmaster, yet you make no mention of the fact that the band has and is using Ticketmaster as well. Double standard, perhaps? Furthermore, I think a lot of the general disappointment here is very justified. There are a lot of people who went out of their way to come to the site yesterday to get tickets only to get their finances mangled and their goodwill trounced upon by unclear errors and numerous technical problems that are the result of poor planning and, yes, likely laziness on the part of the Ten Club.

The fact of the matter is that the 10C controls their website and their website is junk. They have succeeded in the sense that they sold a whole bunch of product and made a good chunk of money. But at the same time they have failed by disaffecting a lot of loyal customers through providing a really lousy service. For a band that has always seemed to value a sense of community over finances, I think these recent events coupled with similar events in the past should be leave them feeling a bit embarrassed.

People here definitely need to chill a little bit and separate the subjective disappointments about not getting tickets from the objective fact that the service provided by the Ten Club was definitely sub-par. There is no excuse for a lot of anger or hatred, aside perhaps from those who have had their bank accounts pillaged. However, there is ample room here for constructive criticism and I feel that most here are voicing opinions that have a lot of validity.

The Ten Club is and always has been a great and groundbreaking organization. They obviously care deeply about their fans, but this does not make them immune from criticism. The fact of the matter is that a lot of those negatively affected by this are going to have a great experience buying tickets through Ticketmaster on Friday, and in just that sense Ticketmaster will prove itself superior to the Ten Club. I can only hope that the Ten Club will take this on as a challenge and seek ways to avoid these events in the future. There are many here who are more than willing to offer their financial support and technical expertise.

Time will only tell if they will accept this as challenge to do better or if, yet again, these problems and valid complaints will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

pjtradeking

farfromglorified wrote:

Cosmo,

I've read a lot of your posts over the last couple days on this subject and I think a lot of your ideas have been really spot-on. However, I find most of your arguments here to be really hollow.

You chide fans for going to Ticketmaster, yet you make no mention of the fact that the band has and is using Ticketmaster as well. Double standard, perhaps? Furthermore, I think a lot of the general disappointment here is very justified. There are a lot of people who went out of their way to come to the site yesterday to get tickets only to get their finances mangled and their goodwill trounced upon by unclear errors and numerous technical problems that are the result of poor planning and, yes, likely laziness on the part of the Ten Club.

The fact of the matter is that the 10C controls their website and their website is junk. They have succeeded in the sense that they sold a whole bunch of product and made a good chunk of money. But at the same time they have failed by disaffecting a lot of loyal customers through providing a really lousy service. For a band that has always seemed to value a sense of community over finances, I think these recent events coupled with similar events in the past should be leave them feeling a bit embarrassed.

People here definitely need to chill a little bit and separate the subjective disappointments about not getting tickets from the objective fact that the service provided by the Ten Club was definitely sub-par. There is no excuse for a lot of anger or hatred, aside perhaps from those who have had their bank accounts pillaged. However, there is ample room here for constructive criticism and I feel that most here are voicing opinions that have a lot of validity.

The Ten Club is and always has been a great and groundbreaking organization. They obviously care deeply about their fans, but this does not make them immune from criticism. The fact of the matter is that a lot of those negatively affected by this are going to have a great experience buying tickets through Ticketmaster on Friday, and in just that sense Ticketmaster will prove itself superior to the Ten Club. I can only hope that the Ten Club will take this on as a challenge and seek ways to avoid these events in the future. There are many here who are more than willing to offer their financial support and technical expertise.

Time will only tell if they will accept this as challenge to do better or if, yet again, these problems and valid complaints will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

At the end of the day though, after all of the problems and what happened, will happen, and probably will happen again, these SAME people who are bitching and complaining(albeit justified) would not shy away from doing it again.

Deaf ears or blind eyes be damned, 95% would be here again on wed if the 10C came out and said....

"we *THINK* we have the problem solved, we're not sure, but we're trying it again!!"

Yes, it sucks, but everything nowadays is such a knee jerk reaction of "fuck them, fuck me and fuck you!!"

If it was like you said "constructive criticism" it would be one thing, but its not...It is overkill and does no one any good. Because you bitch more or harder than anyone else, is it going to make the 10C try harder? No....So again, the constrcutive ones I get...the others.....not so much...just my opinion...means nothing in the grand scheme I know....:)

Cosmo

farfromglorified wrote:

Cosmo,

I've read a lot of your posts over the last couple days on this subject and I think a lot of your ideas have been really spot-on. However, I find most of your arguments here to be really hollow.

You chide fans for going to Ticketmaster, yet you make no mention of the fact that the band has and is using Ticketmaster as well. Double standard, perhaps? Furthermore, I think a lot of the general disappointment here is very justified. There are a lot of people who went out of their way to come to the site yesterday to get tickets only to get their finances mangled and their goodwill trounced upon by unclear errors and numerous technical problems that are the result of poor planning and, yes, likely laziness on the part of the Ten Club.

The fact of the matter is that the 10C controls their website and their website is junk. They have succeeded in the sense that they sold a whole bunch of product and made a good chunk of money. But at the same time they have failed by disaffecting a lot of loyal customers through providing a really lousy service. For a band that has always seemed to value a sense of community over finances, I think these recent events coupled with similar events in the past should be leave them feeling a bit embarrassed.

People here definitely need to chill a little bit and separate the subjective disappointments about not getting tickets from the objective fact that the service provided by the Ten Club was definitely sub-par. There is no excuse for a lot of anger or hatred, aside perhaps from those who have had their bank accounts pillaged. However, there is ample room here for constructive criticism and I feel that most here are voicing opinions that have a lot of validity.

The Ten Club is and always has been a great and groundbreaking organization. They obviously care deeply about their fans, but this does not make them immune from criticism. The fact of the matter is that a lot of those negatively affected by this are going to have a great experience buying tickets through Ticketmaster on Friday, and in just that sense Ticketmaster will prove itself superior to the Ten Club. I can only hope that the Ten Club will take this on as a challenge and seek ways to avoid these events in the future. There are many here who are more than willing to offer their financial support and technical expertise.

Time will only tell if they will accept this as challenge to do better or if, yet again, these problems and valid complaints will fall on deaf ears and blind eyes.

...
Yes... I agree... disappointment. But, just because you are disappointed in what happened... I don't see singing the praises of TicketMaster. Remember, this is the same TicketMaster that will boost the 65.00 ticket to about 80.00. And Yes, Pearl Jam uses TicketMaster for General Sales.... who doesn't (other than tiny bands or tiny venues)... what are the alternatives?
And no... the Ten Club is not immune to criticism. But, instead of firing off anger fuel E-Mail flames... how about sitting back and trying to come up with viable solutions to suggest? Some people have stated some solutions.. but, it is the start of a process... where we brainstorm ideas and maybe later.. when things have cooled... we hammer out the details and look intio the realities of the proposals. It's by our own choosing, we pay our annual fees.
as an example... instead of tossing up an expensive (buy and maintain) system... how about changing the the Ticket Purchasing system that'll work better with a small, locally manged infrastructure? Figure out some way to queue up our orders and run them through without creating a network packet storm that swamps their system.
That's all I'm saying... don't worship at the foot of greed and no need to work yourself up into a rage for no reason. There are a lot of people out there facing some real tough problems... place things into perspective. And yes.. the message is hollow... simple and hollow. Fill its open space with solutions... not complaints.
...
Now.. the people whose bank acccounts got fucked up... they are the ones who should deservedly should be angry. The rest of us... we can deal with the monster on Friday.. but, I don't think we should see it as our saviour.

farfromglorified

pjtradeking wrote:

At the end of the day though, after all of the problems and what happened, will happen, and probably will happen again, these SAME people who are bitching and complaining(albeit justified) would not shy away from doing it again.

Absolutely! But that doesn't mean what happened is above criticism.

Deaf ears or blind eyes be damned, 95% would be here again on wed if the 10C came out and said....

"we *THINK* we have the problem solved, we're not sure, but we're trying it again!!"

Yes, it sucks, but everything nowadays is such a knee jerk reaction of "fuck them, fuck me and fuck you!!"

Again, absolutely. The knee-jerk anger and hatred is really silly. But again, would you not agree that a website that crashes every 2 minutes under a slightly-above-meager load and charges people's accounts without providing a product is worthy of some healthy criticism?

If it was like you said "constructive criticism" it would be one thing, but its not...It is overkill and does no one any good. Because you bitch more or harder than anyone else, is it going to make the 10C try harder? No....So again, the constrcutive ones I get...the others.....not so much...just my opinion...means nothing in the grand scheme I know....:)

Well, I think everybody's opinion counts for something and I don't have a problem with those voicing them so long as they're doing so somewhat rationally and tactfully.

The Ten Club has certainly demonstrated in many instances that they listen to their fans and take what they have to say seriously. For whatever reason, however, they've allowed these particular events to repeat time and time again, so I don't really have much sympathy for them on this one. If people want to flame a bit, they have good reason to here. And I think the Ten Club could have easily avoided this.

Things will die down, they always do. People will chill and get a little perspective. But the sad thing is that we may be right back here later this year when a tour hits and people will have the same problems when some farily simple and inexpensive technical steps could have been taken to avoid all of it.

vedderfan10

The 10 Club did not do this problem on purpose. Send the 10 Club an email and stop complaining about it here. There's nothing any of us can do to help you...

pjtradeking

farfromglorified wrote:

Absolutely! But that doesn't mean what happened is above criticism.



Again, absolutely. The knee-jerk anger and hatred is really silly. But again, would you not agree that a website that crashes every 2 minutes under a slightly-above-meager load and charges people's accounts without providing a product is worthy of some healthy criticism?



Well, I think everybody's opinion counts for something and I don't have a problem with those voicing them so long as they're doing so somewhat rationally and tactfully.

The Ten Club has certainly demonstrated in many instances that they listen to their fans and take what they have to say seriously. For whatever reason, however, they've allowed these particular events to repeat time and time again, so I don't really have much sympathy for them on this one. If people want to flame a bit, they have good reason to here. And I think the Ten Club could have easily avoided this.

Things will die down, they always do. People will chill and get a little perspective. But the sad thing is that we may be right back here later this year when a tour hits and people will have the same problems when some farily simple and inexpensive technical steps could have been taken to avoid all of it.

Agree with alot of what you said...I just dont see ALOT of CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM going on right now....

That said...

We dont know for sure that there wasnt something new put in place do we?

There have been a few times over the last year when the servers have been down for a few minutes to a few hours for one reason or another. Maybe, just maybe there WAS some new things put in place to prevent this kind of thing, and it failed AGAIN?

We havent heard, so we dont know, do we? Maybe they are just as pissed and disapointed as alot of people here and are trying to figure out what the hell happened. This IS possible.

In the meantime, there should be a little waiting before the bitching is all..:)

farfromglorified

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yes... I agree... disappointment. But, just because you are disappointed in what happened... I don't see singing the praises of TicketMaster. Remember, this is the same TicketMaster that will boost the 65.00 ticket to about 80.00. And Yes, Pearl Jam uses TicketMaster for General Sales.... who doesn't (other than tiny bands or tiny venues)... what are the alternatives?

Definitely! I'm not going to sing the praises of TicketMaster as an overall organization. I will, however, point out that I'd happily give the Ten Club an extra $15 if I knew I could simply log in, buy a couple of tickets and move on with my life without screwing around for 3 hours on a lousy website.

The sad fact is that it wouldn't take $15 per ticket for the 10C to fix these problems. It would take almost no money for them to fix these problems.

And no... the Ten Club is not immune to criticism. But, instead of firing off anger fuel E-Mail flames... how about sitting back and trying to come up with viable solutions to suggest? Some people have stated some solutions.. but, it is the start of a process... where we brainstorm ideas and maybe later.. when things have cooled... we hammer out the details and look intio the realities of the proposals. It's by our own choosing, we pay our annual fees.

Absolutely! But please don't act like this is a new problem. It's been going on for a few years now and I haven't seen much sign of action. The same solutions and opinions have been offered numerous times following each ticket sale, yet (at least from a technical perspective), it doesn't seem that much changes.

as an example... instead of tossing up an expensive (buy and maintain) system... how about changing the the Ticket Purchasing system that'll work better with a small, locally manged infrastructure? Figure out some way to queue up our orders and run them through without creating a network packet storm that swamps their system.

Well, from a technical perspective, that doesn't work too well. You can't queue up 50,000 orders for 10,000 widgets and not expect some serious customer service problems. The job, processing orders as they come in until your product is sold out, is not the problem. The problem is that the tools being used to accomplish the job are inappropriate or poorly constructed.

The Ten Club is using Tomcat on Apache which in turn means they're using Java. In the hands of a great systems architect and some outstanding coders, you can build a great Java application. However, the Ten Club likely does not have either of those things. So they've ended up with some ugly java applications that take up too much memory and likely generate too many ineffecient connections to databases and credit card companies and the system crashes. God knows what kind of hardware this is running on either.

They need to look at using better technical tools to accomplish this. All things considered, they only need to process a few thousand orders within a few minutes. This is not rocket science at all. I have single-server installations that handle the kind of traffic they likely experienced yesterday without missing a beat. And they do it using an open-source platform that doesn't cost a dime.

The solution is better code, not huge hardware or fundamental changes to the process.

That's all I'm saying... don't worship at the foot of greed and no need to work yourself up into a rage for no reason. There are a lot of people out there facing some real tough problems... place things into perspective. And yes.. the message is hollow... simple and hollow. Fill its open space with solutions... not complaints.
...
Now.. the people whose bank acccounts got fucked up... they are the ones who should deservedly should be angry. The rest of us... we can deal with the monster on Friday.. but, I don't think we should see it as our saviour.

I'm not angry or raging. Hell, I don't need to even deal with the monster on Friday as I ended up getting tickets yesterday afternoon. But I definitely agree with those who are saying the process was way less than ideal, even given the limitations of a small outfit like the Ten Club.

lastexit78

For the first time since I joined the TenClub some ten years ago I'm a little soured. $65 just to see Ed? I'm not usually one to complain about prices but that seems a little high. Then you add the Ticketmaster fees and your looking at probably close to $175 a pair. Also the details about the tour have been relayed poorly. According to the Santa Cruz Civic Center they no longer use Ticketmaster. They have their own system that's supposed to be up and running tomorrow. Why hasn't this news been relayed to all of us? Are these shows General Admission? Who is going to be playing with Ed? It feels like this tour was thought up in 10 minutes and they decided to tell us on the 11th minute. I love Ed but for the first time I might actually sit this one out. There's more important things in life than this tour and bitching about a failed TenClub ticketing system. See you all in 09 for a full blown tour. Or maybe for Bridge School in October.

Eliot Rosewater

Cosmo wrote:

...
Yes... I agree... disappointment. But, just because you are disappointed in what happened... I don't see singing the praises of TicketMaster. Remember, this is the same TicketMaster that will boost the 65.00 ticket to about 80.00. And Yes, Pearl Jam uses TicketMaster for General Sales.... who doesn't (other than tiny bands or tiny venues)... what are the alternatives?
And no... the Ten Club is not immune to criticism. But, instead of firing off anger fuel E-Mail flames... how about sitting back and trying to come up with viable solutions to suggest? Some people have stated some solutions.. but, it is the start of a process... where we brainstorm ideas and maybe later.. when things have cooled... we hammer out the details and look intio the realities of the proposals. It's by our own choosing, we pay our annual fees.
as an example... instead of tossing up an expensive (buy and maintain) system... how about changing the the Ticket Purchasing system that'll work better with a small, locally manged infrastructure? Figure out some way to queue up our orders and run them through without creating a network packet storm that swamps their system.
That's all I'm saying... don't worship at the foot of greed and no need to work yourself up into a rage for no reason. There are a lot of people out there facing some real tough problems... place things into perspective. And yes.. the message is hollow... simple and hollow. Fill its open space with solutions... not complaints.
...
Now.. the people whose bank acccounts got fucked up... they are the ones who should deservedly should be angry. The rest of us... we can deal with the monster on Friday.. but, I don't think we should see it as our saviour.

COSMO for president.

beachdweller

Cosmo wrote:

It's kinda sad that instead of celebrating everything that is happening (Eddie on tour.. posibly the first of several and Pearl Jam in Tennessee)... we are all upset and bickering. I mean, I understand and agree with the ones whose funding was mangled by this... your anger is justifiable.
But, the rest... well, I can understand disappointment... but, anger? A day later? Come on... think about it... it was a pre-sale for a tiny amount of tickets. There are still 1,800 per venue up for grabs on Friday. The world didn't end... the Sun is in the sky today.
And the ones who run to the alter of the Evil Lord Ticketmaster... well, it reminds me of that movie with Charleston Heston as Moses. I'm not comparing the Ten Club to Moses... but, even after the fucking Guy trounced the Egyptians... put up a tornado of fire... parted the red Sea and drowned their pursuers.. they STILL didn't believe him and went to the alter of the Golden Calf.
Again... Ten Club not Moses... more like we are like those people in the movie that kiss the feet of Ticketmaster. Don't do it. They are still a monster. The only difference is they will shut you our a lot faster so you can return to your very important what ever it is you missed out yesterday from 10 to 11. What would i have missed out on? One hour of bullshitting around here.
The bottom line... I think about people facing real problems... like my friend who is only 34 and facing a tough fight with breast cancer... or my other friend with health problems (I'm taking her to the Ed shows.. the ones she can make it to). And I think about our soldier brothers and sisters over there and the ones forced back home because the Army won't allow a wheelchair bound, double amputee back into the fight.
yeah... it was disappointing and all... but, in the big scheme of things... the things that matter in your life... where does it place in your list of priorities? If it is at the top... above your family... your spouse... your friends... well, I think you might want to reassess your priorities.
...
There is always hope for Friday.

that's right, where's the hope? where's the "yes we can"? all the negativety can't be good for their karma.

haffajappa

i feel kinda bad for 10c... i mean, i feel bad for everyone...
but... the amount of shit that they probably ahve to deal with now... because of a technology error... i wouldnt want to be them right now.

i didnt get vic tickets, i got vancouver tickets. you win some, you lose some...

PJPixie

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

COSMO for president.

I wrote COSMO in for my vote during the Wisconsin Primaries today

He frickin' rules!!

chiquimonkey

i feel really bad for those who got shafted and all, and i know i'm still waiting for an extra $141.50 to get back into my account lol but yeah, i'm all for keeping an eye towards the light. even if i wasn't able to go to any of the shows i'd be super intrigued as to what ed would do....and i'm really grateful to be able to get to the berkeley show. so even though it seems to be a minority feeling around these parts...i'm happy

MasterFramer

I do not feel bad for the ten club. These things go down like this because they have chosen to leave their antiquated ecommerce as is. People get even more upset because it is the ten clubs policy to not address issues publicly. I got tickets on monday so I'm not upset about that obviously. What I am upset about is the constant neglect for the club's most loyal members. No one should have multiple holds on their accounts. The fact that the ten club says wait a few days for them fall off is wrong. That is just lazy and horrible customer service AND it has been going on for over a year. If the ten club really cared about that situation they would be logged in, on the phone, whatever with their merchant account company and be proactive about the situation. OR here is an amazing idea, get an account that treats your customers fairly. And how about an appology? Talk about fucking rude.... I am done with this subject because we all know things will not change.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

MasterFramer wrote:

I do not feel bad for the ten club. These things go down like this because they have chosen to leave their antiquated ecommerce as is. People get even more upset because it is the ten clubs policy to not address issues publicly. I got tickets on monday so I'm not upset about that obviously. What I am upset about is the constant neglect for the club's most loyal members. No one should have multiple holds on their accounts. The fact that the ten club says wait a few days for them fall off is wrong. That is just lazy and horrible customer service AND it has been going on for over a year. If the ten club really cared about that situation they would be logged in, on the phone, whatever with their merchant account company and be proactive about the situation. OR here is an amazing idea, get an account that treats your customers fairly. And how about an appology? Talk about fucking rude.... I am done with this subject because we all know things will not change.

hallelujah...holy shit.....where is the tylenol????

pjtradeking

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

hallelujah...holy shit.....where is the tylenol????

Clark Griswold is a GOD!!