On the subject of bad production and the loudness wars...
Cropduster84
Posts: 1,283
I think I have a pretty good ear for noticing over compressed mastering in albums such as Springsteen's Magic and RHCP Californication, BUT can someone point me to albums that have the opposite effect, albums that, even on cd format, still have quite a good dynamic range etc.???
'The more I studied religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself.' - Sir Richard Francis Burton
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I was reading about this in Rolling Stone lately, I believe they mentioned Nirvana Nevermind
Summerfest 2006
"Why would they come to our concert just to boo us?" -Lisa Simpson
Robert Plant/Alison Krauss - Raising Sand
Rage Against The Machine - Self Titled
Pearl Jam - Vs
The National - Boxer
Bruce Springsteen - Born to Run (the remastered version anyway)
Nine Inch Nails - Downward Spiral
Some CDs I can think of off the top of my head are as follows:
Tool - Lateralus (the last of the new CDs to come out that I have come across that isn't hot) Just listen to the cymbals in 'Ticks and Leeches'. Very amazing and a good reminder of how music is supposed to sound.
Soundgarden - Superunknown and Down on the Upside are both VERY dynamic. The opening cymbal notes in Pretty Noose make it feel as if you are actually in the room the drummer is playing in. In fact there are some interviews with them out there were they were asked why their CDs were so quiet compared to modern releases of the time and it was either Chris or Kim who said "Well, we figure if it sounds good when it is turned down, it will sound fucking amazing when the listeners turn it up" which is basically true. I'd rather be able to turn the music up myself than have some half-wit fuck do it for me in the studio.
Tad - Inhaler and Infrared Riding Hood (I mentioned this in another thread) and I guess the one with Jack Pepsi on it is good as well, I can't think of its name right now.
The Melvins - Stoner Witch, Houdini, Bullhead, Lysol (Stay away from their newest release if you are looking for dynamics. I have it and the songs fucking rule but it is very 'loud'. It could've been so much cooler too considering they have two drummers on it. There may be more, but those are the only ones I currently own
Korn - Their first Self Titled CD.
Nirvana - In Utero. I've gotten into arguments with people over this one. They say it was recorded to sound raw and horrible...well they may be right, but it is one of the best well done CDs I've had the pleasure of listening to as far as compression and mastering is concerned. It is VERY dynamic and I consider the mastering to be better than it was on Nevermind.
Suprisingly, Alice in Chains' "Dirt" album was considered hot for its time and I can see how it would be, but compared to the releases today, it is like listening to butter melt in your ear.
If you find yourself having a difficult time telling just by ear how well a CD is done, a good program to check out would be Cool Edit 2000. This program analyzes the soundwaves of a given CD and shows ratings such as the Average RMS output and it displays a pictoral of what the soundwave peak graph looks like (not sure what this is actually called).
Well, that's all I can think of now...if I think of more I'll be sure to post them.
Oh wait...MR. BUNGLE! How could I forget them! Their first two CDs are excellent. Disco Volante is probably the most dynamic out of them all.
Also, someone above mentioned Rage Against the Machine's self title album. That album is pretty phenomenal as well. Just listen to it back to back with any other Rage album and the difference is astounding.
That is so true, I was only wondering the other day why Superunknown sounded quieter compared with a lot of newer stuff. I particularly love in Like Suicide how all the instruments come in at different times but they are all very distinct. It can actually be a pain though if you're making a compilation cd and the volumes keep going up and down from track to track.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Sometimes subtlety can be beautiful.
You touched on an interesting point with your compilation cd comment, though. Part of the reason there is this "loudness war" as many call it is because of compilation CDs and the radio. When a compilation CD would come out and some of the artists would hear their song on the CD, they would demand that theirs be the loudest so as to "stand out" from the rest of the tracks. This is complete and utter bullshit. Yes, their song will be louder, however it turns into a wimpy loud sound with no impact whatsoever. I'd rather have to turn the volume up myself than hear nothing but distortion with vocals layered over it. I wasn't directing this at your comment or anything, it just reminded me of this and I understand what you are saying about it being a pain when making your own compilation CDs.
Oh yeah, another thing. Whenever I go to work out they have the radio on and I almost laugh out loud every single time an older song comes on because you can barely hear it (An example would be, the other day one of the new Korn songs was playing and then it sequed into Bullet With Butterfly Wings by Smashing Pumpkins....quite the difference to say the least). That's how horrible it's become; everything new is now so blown up.
I can imagine! To be fair though I don't think the production on Mellon Collie was all that great either, the drums are pushed down so low in the mix on some songs it's quite depressing, given the fact they are some of Jimmy Chamberlin's best performances.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/17777619/the_death_of_high_fidelity
It is nice to see the Rolling Stone report on something relevant. Nice find! I hope more people become aware of this.
i also like the sound of lou reeds berlin, listening to that is like sitting in a studio for me. i just get the feeling they are playing those songs just for you.
with the mention tds i thought the fragile was way better in sound.
I would agree with that as well, but it's been a long time since I listened to them so I may need to do that again and compare.
Anyway, there is another album that I thought of that simply sounds phenomenal. It isn't rock music or anything like, but it is the Final Fantasy XII Original Sound Track. If you like orchestrated music, this stuff is simply amazing and as I already said, it is so well done and sounds phenomenal.