couldn't agree more.. guitar driven awesomeness IMO. i couldn't get into adore.. i liked machina... but Zeitgeist is damn good and way better than either of the previously mentioned albums.
Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.
It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?
Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.
So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.
Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.
I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.
More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?
Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!
Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.
It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?
Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.
So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.
Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.
I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.
More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?
Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!
Just about got there! And you are spot-on. The only problems I have with Zeitgeist would be that the vocal production is a bit dodgy, and the slower songs are slightly lacking in emotion. But the album is worth the money just for Doomsday Clock and Bleeding the Orchid alone - plus getting to hear Jimmy Chamberlain in action. A seriously underrated drummer. If people would give Zeitgeist a chance, then they might be pleasantly surprised. I definitely dont understand why there's been so much negative publicity over it
"...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
Ha!! Glad to see people are agreeing with me!! It seems overall though that the album is receiving mixed reviews. But even Siamese Dream faced criticism from some critics when it first came out. Oh well, who gives a fuck. I personally love the new record and would definately put it in the top 3 of all of Corgan's work.
Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.
It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?
Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.
So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.
Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.
I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.
More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?
Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!
Very well put..I agree with you in many ways. Who knows how much these critics have bothered listening to the record.
Seems to me like the guy didn't even listen to Zeitgeist or at least if he did,he had decided within his head beforehand what sort of review he was going to give it.I think it's a great album,the Avacodo album got plenty of shit reviews as well but it was PJ's most successful in a decade or so.I think that's gonna be the case with Zeitgeist too,who cares if the critics don't like it.
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Seems to me like the guy didn't even listen to Zeitgeist or at least if he did,he had decided within his head beforehand what sort of review he was going to give it.I think it's a great album,the Avacodo album got plenty of shit reviews as well but it was PJ's most successful in a decade or so.I think that's gonna be the case with Zeitgeist too,who cares if the critics don't like it.
If I remember correctly, I thought Avocado got great reviews. Anyway, Zeitgeist has been getting mixed reviews, but all the bad ones sound like critics didn't even listen to the album.
If I remember correctly, I thought Avocado got great reviews. Anyway, Zeitgeist has been getting mixed reviews, but all the bad ones sound like critics didn't even listen to the album.
NME and Q gave it pretty bad reviews,their the ones giving Zeitgeist bad reviews as well.....I should really just stop reading them really.
It may be the devil or it may be the Lord
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
Having lived with Zeitgeist for a few weeks now and having read what seems like an endless torrent of catty remarks and scathing reviews from the world's ‘finest’ journalists, I’m kind of baffled by the negativity.
It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?
Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.
So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.
Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.
I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.
More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?
Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!
Music Review: Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist
Written by Mark Saleski
Published July 17, 2007
See also:
» The Tuesday Morning Purchase: The Mudflapps, Charles Mingus, Minnie Driver
» Music Review: Crowded House - Time On Earth
» Ticketmaster And My Experience With the Conveinence Charge
Let's get this out of the way first: I was never a big Smashing Pumpkins fan. In fact, aside from maybe "Cherub Rock," I more or less couldn't stand them. As usual, the issue was one of voice. Billy Corgan's voice bothered me. It overshadowed the gigantic walls of molten guitar. Believe me, it takes a lot to push me away from gigantic walls of molten guitar.
The first Pumpkins-related recording I made it all the way through was Corgan's 2005 solo album The Future Embrace. While Billy's voice hadn't exactly won me over, it was pretty obvious that the man had talent, making songs absolutely full of texture and melody. Still, there was that voice. I liked that record but wasn't closer to diving into the Pumpkins back catalog.
So now comes the first Smashing Pumpkins record in seven years. Since I was never a part of the first wave, there's no historical cruft to drag me down: Is this a "real" Pumpkins album, with D'Arcy and James Iha missing? Is Corgan just a cynical bastard, using the Pumpkins name to squeeze a little more blood money from the stone? Sorry, I don't care.
It was "Tarantula" that won me over. I'd been listening to the promo single for a few weeks before seeing the Pumpkins crush it on the Dave Letterman show. As always, central to the sound was Corgan's solar flare guitar and Jimmy Chamberlin's aggressive drums.
But would the complement of Zeitgeist live up to my new found excitement and interest? So far, the answer is 'yes'.
On the the softer, pop record side of things, Corgan has brought in some interesting influences. "Bleeding The Orchid"'s vocal introduction wouldn't be out of place on a Brian Wilson record. Voices are also heavily layered on the choruses, dialing back (at least to my ears) that part of Billy's voice used to dig me in the ribs. "For God And Country" starts of with a lone, chiming piano that's later spiced up with almost Cure-like synth tones. "Pomp And Circumstance" repeats the use of Beach Boys-tinged vocals, while adding other bits of texture like the vibraphone and plucked strings. Ah, and the guitar solo that channels Brian May? Gee, ya think producer Roy Thomas Baker had anything to do with that?
As for my giant walls of molten guitar, there's more than enough to go around. The album kicks off with the adrenaline rush of Chamberlin's drums and Corgan's snarling guitar. Yessir, "Doomsday Clock" is right up there with "Tarantula," as far as my ears were concerned. The rock centerpiece of this record is probably "United States." Nearly ten minutes of guitar squall, drum rumble, and political angst.
To be honest, I don't know what Corgan is getting at either on "United States," "Tarantula," "Starz," or any other song for that matter. The lyrics will "come to me" after about 20 listens. I'm just not there yet. Now that I can though, please let me enjoy alla that guitar. You too, maybe.
Music Review: Smashing Pumpkins - Zeitgeist
Written by Mark Saleski
Published July 17, 2007
See also:
» The Tuesday Morning Purchase: The Mudflapps, Charles Mingus, Minnie Driver
» Music Review: Crowded House - Time On Earth
» Ticketmaster And My Experience With the Conveinence Charge
Let's get this out of the way first: I was never a big Smashing Pumpkins fan. In fact, aside from maybe "Cherub Rock," I more or less couldn't stand them. As usual, the issue was one of voice. Billy Corgan's voice bothered me. It overshadowed the gigantic walls of molten guitar. Believe me, it takes a lot to push me away from gigantic walls of molten guitar.
The first Pumpkins-related recording I made it all the way through was Corgan's 2005 solo album The Future Embrace. While Billy's voice hadn't exactly won me over, it was pretty obvious that the man had talent, making songs absolutely full of texture and melody. Still, there was that voice. I liked that record but wasn't closer to diving into the Pumpkins back catalog.
So now comes the first Smashing Pumpkins record in seven years. Since I was never a part of the first wave, there's no historical cruft to drag me down: Is this a "real" Pumpkins album, with D'Arcy and James Iha missing? Is Corgan just a cynical bastard, using the Pumpkins name to squeeze a little more blood money from the stone? Sorry, I don't care.
It was "Tarantula" that won me over. I'd been listening to the promo single for a few weeks before seeing the Pumpkins crush it on the Dave Letterman show. As always, central to the sound was Corgan's solar flare guitar and Jimmy Chamberlin's aggressive drums.
But would the complement of Zeitgeist live up to my new found excitement and interest? So far, the answer is 'yes'.
On the the softer, pop record side of things, Corgan has brought in some interesting influences. "Bleeding The Orchid"'s vocal introduction wouldn't be out of place on a Brian Wilson record. Voices are also heavily layered on the choruses, dialing back (at least to my ears) that part of Billy's voice used to dig me in the ribs. "For God And Country" starts of with a lone, chiming piano that's later spiced up with almost Cure-like synth tones. "Pomp And Circumstance" repeats the use of Beach Boys-tinged vocals, while adding other bits of texture like the vibraphone and plucked strings. Ah, and the guitar solo that channels Brian May? Gee, ya think producer Roy Thomas Baker had anything to do with that?
As for my giant walls of molten guitar, there's more than enough to go around. The album kicks off with the adrenaline rush of Chamberlin's drums and Corgan's snarling guitar. Yessir, "Doomsday Clock" is right up there with "Tarantula," as far as my ears were concerned. The rock centerpiece of this record is probably "United States." Nearly ten minutes of guitar squall, drum rumble, and political angst.
To be honest, I don't know what Corgan is getting at either on "United States," "Tarantula," "Starz," or any other song for that matter. The lyrics will "come to me" after about 20 listens. I'm just not there yet. Now that I can though, please let me enjoy alla that guitar. You too, maybe.
But the point of the thread and the original review is that it has nothing to do with what the record sounds like. I don't care you shouldn't either, I understand the whole "if it's good I'll like it" mentality but the point is that's for too simplistic. The fact that Billy Corgan is bringing out the pumpkins for no other reason than he likes the sales and attention the name will command is total fucking BS and for anyone who like them originally it should be a slap in teh face. All he is doing is writing things that he would have wrote a decade ago and calling it new. same old shit you get everyday here, if PJ put out Ten redux and it was huge would you be happy that people were appreciating them again or would you maybe question it?
"I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
Chris Cornell
But the point of the thread and the original review is that it has nothing to do with what the record sounds like. I don't care you shouldn't either, I understand the whole "if it's good I'll like it" mentality but the point is that's for too simplistic. The fact that Billy Corgan is bringing out the pumpkins for no other reason than he likes the sales and attention the name will command is total fucking BS and for anyone who like them originally it should be a slap in teh face. All he is doing is writing things that he would have wrote a decade ago and calling it new. same old shit you get everyday here, if PJ put out Ten redux and it was huge would you be happy that people were appreciating them again or would you maybe question it?
The guy's sold shit loads of records, he doesn't need to work another day in his life. Ultimately he knows that it is in the Pumpkins that he makes his best music And to my ears Zeitgeist doesn't sound much like their past material at all. And why is the 'if it's good I'll like it' mentality too simplistic? That's such a retarded logic, I hate it when people over analyse and dig for reasons why not to like music, it's ridiculous. A good piece of art, is a good piece of art, full stop.
The guy's sold shit loads of records, he doesn't need to work another day in his life. Ultimately he knows that it is in the Pumpkins that he makes his best music And to my ears Zeitgeist doesn't sound much like their past material at all. And why is the 'if it's good I'll like it' mentality too simplistic? That's such a retarded logic, I hate it when people over analyse and dig for reasons why not to like music, it's ridiculous. A good piece of art, is a good piece of art, full stop.
Exactly.
I've said it more times then nessecary, but people (apparently mr.walkerB - honestly no offense meant) take Corgan far too seriously.
"I want my band back and I want my songs back" was what he said in that full page ad in the Chicago Tribune back when this started and I believe that's exactly what he meant.
Plus Corgan can really just be himself under the Pumpkins label.. he doesn't seem to put the pressure on himself to 'not' sound like the Smashing Pumpkins like in Zwan and TFE. Or in other terms..
If there's anything I can say about Zeitgeist, Corgan has returned to the "old school" Pumpkins sound, but Zeitgeist doesn't sound like any of the other Pumpkins albums. In fact, I don't think any one album sounds alike in all honesty. The closest albums that sound alike are Siamese Dream and Mellon Collie, but what made them so different was they way they were written. SD was about perfect notes, perfect pitch, MCIS was about emotion.
Comments
jsaso I agree with you, this isn't a review it's a bunch of bullshit. And for the record Zeitgeist fucking rocks!
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
couldn't agree more.. guitar driven awesomeness IMO. i couldn't get into adore.. i liked machina... but Zeitgeist is damn good and way better than either of the previously mentioned albums.
I second that. They didn't skip a beat regardless of the 8 year break. Certainly speaks volumes.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
It seems that in this age where we can listen to an album before we have it in our hands, where we can sample music and chose exactly what songs we are prepared to pay for, and then discuss at length with people all over the world exactly why such-and-such song is shit, or amazing - that we have forgotten how, less than ten years ago, we used to listen to a single on the radio, or see a video on TV, and decided from there if a record was worth having. Having picked up the particular record, you would get home, flick through the pages of the inlay booklet whilst blasting the cd out. Even if you didn’t like the record on first listen, you would listen to it for days or weeks on end, because you had invested in the cd, and well, you know, some records just take a while to sink in. Just reading through different people's comments, a lot of the so called analysis feels more like an American Idol panel of judges than people who supposedly like music - if it doesn't quite make the grade on first listen it's instantly dismissed. Of course it would be naive to expect people to go back to their old listening habits, and I'm certainly guilty of downloading album leaks, but when did we all become so fucking cynical?
Before I go on, I want to address the point, which personally I think is at the root of a lot of the backlash, particularly from journalists - that being that there are only two original members. Because only Corgan and Chamberlin are involved, there seems to be an assumption that Corgan must therefore be some narcissistic dictator in the same vein as Axl Rose. At the end of the day, D’arcy and James Iha clearly had their reasons for not wanting to get back together, but, at the end of the day, they really are not essential to a Pumpkins record. The only one other than Corgan, obviously, that needs to be involved is Jimmy Chamberlin – Adore is proof enough of that, not an awful record, but minus his superior drum work, a fair few songs feel utterly lifeless. This point is further backed up by the fact that only Corgan and Chamberlin played on Siamese Dream, unquestionably their most consistent record, and arguably their strongest material. Journalists love nothing more than building people up and then knocking them right back down. ‘Who the fuck does Billy Corgan think he is reforming a band after seven years and two failed musical projects, and with only one other original Pumpkin in tow?!’ If that is the mindset before they even play their advanced copy, what are the chances of them giving it a fair chance, especially when they have a stack of new advance records from the latest indie clones to wank all over? Fickle bastards.
So anyway, onto Zeitgeist. I wonder what people really expected? It’s been seven years since Machina, had the band carried on how would their music sound today – would it sound anything like Zeitgeist? For me, the key things I love about the Pumpkins are the layered guitars, the pounding drums and most importantly the melodies. Melody is absolutely paramount in a Pumpkins record, precisely why I wasn’t much of a fan of Adore, Machina, Zwan and The Future Embrace. Whilst all those records (excluding TFE) had their moments, there were many songs that simply lacked the identities that were stamped all over the first few records. So upon hearing Zeitgeist’s first single, Tarantula, you can imagine my joy when all the boxes were ticked, a big rocking tune, loads of guitars, galloping drum beats and a big-ass chorus to sing along with. Next leaked song was Doomsday Clock, and dammit it was more of the same, jarring riffs and another catchy chorus. Do they sound like Siamese Dream? No, but that doesn’t matter because they contain all the necessary components of good Pumpkins songs.
Upon hearing the rest of the album what really struck me was how varied, yet consistent it is. Of course the album isn’t perfect, it has the odd track here and there that felt like filler (Neverlost, Bring The Light, anyone?) BUT, even those songs are catchy enough, and don’t out stay their welcome. And more to the point, when they are surrounded by the likes of Bleeding The Orchid, United States (the new Silverfuck? plus you gotta love the Whole lot of love-esque break in the middle), it really doesn’t stop this record being anything less than solid, which considering the band are just finding their feet again, is really more than anyone should have expected or hoped for.
I know some people are having problems with the production, which I can understand, but personally I find some of the production on Mellon Collie to be way too murky, just listen to how criminally low the drums have been buried in the mix on songs like Jellybelly – yet I still enjoy the song and the album.
More than anything, Zeitgeist proves that the band still have a future, and who knows what this renewed sense of ambition may yield on the next record?
Ps, I’m seriously impressed if you managed to read all of that!
Stephen Thomas Erlewine is my hero.
Just about got there! And you are spot-on. The only problems I have with Zeitgeist would be that the vocal production is a bit dodgy, and the slower songs are slightly lacking in emotion. But the album is worth the money just for Doomsday Clock and Bleeding the Orchid alone - plus getting to hear Jimmy Chamberlain in action. A seriously underrated drummer. If people would give Zeitgeist a chance, then they might be pleasantly surprised. I definitely dont understand why there's been so much negative publicity over it
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
Very well put..I agree with you in many ways. Who knows how much these critics have bothered listening to the record.
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
www.bebo.com/pearljam06
If I remember correctly, I thought Avocado got great reviews. Anyway, Zeitgeist has been getting mixed reviews, but all the bad ones sound like critics didn't even listen to the album.
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
NME and Q gave it pretty bad reviews,their the ones giving Zeitgeist bad reviews as well.....I should really just stop reading them really.
But you're gonna have to serve somebody.
www.bebo.com/pearljam06
Yeah, it seems as if most critics today just want to support the artists that are "in," and keep other artists unexposed as much as possible.
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee
Written by Mark Saleski
Published July 17, 2007
See also:
» The Tuesday Morning Purchase: The Mudflapps, Charles Mingus, Minnie Driver
» Music Review: Crowded House - Time On Earth
» Ticketmaster And My Experience With the Conveinence Charge
Let's get this out of the way first: I was never a big Smashing Pumpkins fan. In fact, aside from maybe "Cherub Rock," I more or less couldn't stand them. As usual, the issue was one of voice. Billy Corgan's voice bothered me. It overshadowed the gigantic walls of molten guitar. Believe me, it takes a lot to push me away from gigantic walls of molten guitar.
The first Pumpkins-related recording I made it all the way through was Corgan's 2005 solo album The Future Embrace. While Billy's voice hadn't exactly won me over, it was pretty obvious that the man had talent, making songs absolutely full of texture and melody. Still, there was that voice. I liked that record but wasn't closer to diving into the Pumpkins back catalog.
So now comes the first Smashing Pumpkins record in seven years. Since I was never a part of the first wave, there's no historical cruft to drag me down: Is this a "real" Pumpkins album, with D'Arcy and James Iha missing? Is Corgan just a cynical bastard, using the Pumpkins name to squeeze a little more blood money from the stone? Sorry, I don't care.
It was "Tarantula" that won me over. I'd been listening to the promo single for a few weeks before seeing the Pumpkins crush it on the Dave Letterman show. As always, central to the sound was Corgan's solar flare guitar and Jimmy Chamberlin's aggressive drums.
But would the complement of Zeitgeist live up to my new found excitement and interest? So far, the answer is 'yes'.
On the the softer, pop record side of things, Corgan has brought in some interesting influences. "Bleeding The Orchid"'s vocal introduction wouldn't be out of place on a Brian Wilson record. Voices are also heavily layered on the choruses, dialing back (at least to my ears) that part of Billy's voice used to dig me in the ribs. "For God And Country" starts of with a lone, chiming piano that's later spiced up with almost Cure-like synth tones. "Pomp And Circumstance" repeats the use of Beach Boys-tinged vocals, while adding other bits of texture like the vibraphone and plucked strings. Ah, and the guitar solo that channels Brian May? Gee, ya think producer Roy Thomas Baker had anything to do with that?
As for my giant walls of molten guitar, there's more than enough to go around. The album kicks off with the adrenaline rush of Chamberlin's drums and Corgan's snarling guitar. Yessir, "Doomsday Clock" is right up there with "Tarantula," as far as my ears were concerned. The rock centerpiece of this record is probably "United States." Nearly ten minutes of guitar squall, drum rumble, and political angst.
To be honest, I don't know what Corgan is getting at either on "United States," "Tarantula," "Starz," or any other song for that matter. The lyrics will "come to me" after about 20 listens. I'm just not there yet. Now that I can though, please let me enjoy alla that guitar. You too, maybe.
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2007/07/17/095544.php
But the point of the thread and the original review is that it has nothing to do with what the record sounds like. I don't care you shouldn't either, I understand the whole "if it's good I'll like it" mentality but the point is that's for too simplistic. The fact that Billy Corgan is bringing out the pumpkins for no other reason than he likes the sales and attention the name will command is total fucking BS and for anyone who like them originally it should be a slap in teh face. All he is doing is writing things that he would have wrote a decade ago and calling it new. same old shit you get everyday here, if PJ put out Ten redux and it was huge would you be happy that people were appreciating them again or would you maybe question it?
Chris Cornell
http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
The guy's sold shit loads of records, he doesn't need to work another day in his life. Ultimately he knows that it is in the Pumpkins that he makes his best music And to my ears Zeitgeist doesn't sound much like their past material at all. And why is the 'if it's good I'll like it' mentality too simplistic? That's such a retarded logic, I hate it when people over analyse and dig for reasons why not to like music, it's ridiculous. A good piece of art, is a good piece of art, full stop.
I've said it more times then nessecary, but people (apparently mr.walkerB - honestly no offense meant) take Corgan far too seriously.
"I want my band back and I want my songs back" was what he said in that full page ad in the Chicago Tribune back when this started and I believe that's exactly what he meant.
Plus Corgan can really just be himself under the Pumpkins label.. he doesn't seem to put the pressure on himself to 'not' sound like the Smashing Pumpkins like in Zwan and TFE. Or in other terms..
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
Zeitgeist
$14.95 / $23.95 deluxe
After a couple of crappy solo albums
Billy Corgan reforms the band.
Deluxe edition package includes 72 page book.
it has 76 pages
-Eddie Vedder
6/24/06 Cincinatti, Ohio
6/14/08 Manchester, Tennessee